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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone else had trouble installing their StopTech BBK?

I purchased my StopTech front BBK from Dave Zeckhausen a couple of months ago. Thanks to Dave's terrific customer service, I was able to obtain the holiday discount price well into January. He even arranged for me to swap the red calipers that came with the kit for a pair of black calipers shipped directly from StopTech. Great guy!

The trouble came when I took my Beast into my favorite local independent BMW shop this morning to have the StopTechs installed. When they attempted to install the new rotors to my front wheel hubs, the five wheel bolt holes did not line up perfectly. The technician was concerned enough to take a digital photo and contact StopTech's technical support. (As soon as I get a copy of the photo, I'll post it here.)

When the StopTech guys looked at the photo, they agreed the rotors had been machined incorrectly. StopTech immediately agreed to swap my rotors for a new pair under warranty. My technician said he could "probably" have made the rotors fit by torquing the wheel bolts, but assumed that the bolt holes on the rotor should like up perfectly with those on the hub. StopTech evidently agreed.

So, the shop put my stock front brakes back on the car, and it will be next week before they're able to try again with the replacement rotors from StopTech. Frankly, I'm surprised at this apparent lack of quality control by StopTech, because I've heard it's a first-class company. They're certainly living up to their reputation for good customer service, but I wonder how many other BBK rotors have had this problem. And how many less meticulous technicians would simply have bolted the rotors on anyway and never raised the alarm?

Anyone else had problems with StopTech rotors that did not fit properly, or is this an isolated incident?

Mike
 

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Ridgeback_Pilot said:
Has anyone else had trouble installing their StopTech BBK?


The trouble came when I took my Beast into my favorite local independent BMW shop this morning to have the StopTechs installed. When they attempted to install the new rotors to my front wheel hubs, the five wheel bolt holes did not line up perfectly. The technician was concerned enough to take a digital photo and contact StopTech's technical support. (As soon as I get a copy of the photo, I'll post it here.)



Frankly, I'm surprised at this apparent lack of quality control by StopTech, because I've heard it's a first-class company. They're certainly living up to their reputation for good customer service, but I wonder how many other BBK rotors have had this problem. And how many less meticulous technicians would simply have bolted the rotors on anyway and never raised the alarm?

Anyone else had problems with StopTech rotors that did not fit properly, or is this an isolated incident?

Mike
Mine were shipped mid January and went on about a month ago. No problems with the rotors, only things of note was that the backing plates had to be touched up and I think there was a little issue getting the pad sensors installed. Neither was a big deal.
Regards,
Jerry
 

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I have seen this before on a set of Stoptechs on a 540i. The bolts do not match up properly with the screw in place on that particular car. Other then that, I have heard nothing bad about the company quality control standards though. So I am sure this was a freak thing. Please keep us updated.
 

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no probs with mine either, but this was from like 16 months ago...
Bummer.
Mike
 

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Ridgeback_Pilot said:
Anyone else had problems with StopTech rotors that did not fit properly, or is this an isolated incident?
The problem is with the hat, not the rotors. When the hat is installed on the hub, the three (BMW) dowel pins line it up so that the bolt holes and the rotor retaining screw holes are just slightly off center. According to the mechanic, the kit could have been installed without using the rotor retaining screws. There was enough room for the wheel bolts to be installed properly and everything would have been flat and it would have worked perfectly. But the kit was designed to take advantage of the factory rotor retaining screws and the mechanic made the right decision (in my opinion) to stop what he was doing and contact StopTech. The hat is clearly off kilter.


Photo provided by mechanic (arrows are mine)

From the photo provided by Mike's mechanic, you can see that the bolt holes (yellow arrows) are off slightly. It's hard to see, but the rotor retaining screw holes (red arrows) are off by the same amount. While the wheel bolts have enough room to work, the rotor retaining screws do not.

I'm following up with StopTech to run this issue to ground. I plan to go buy a new M5 wheel bearing/hub today and test fit it to my own inventory. I'm doing that for two reasons. If my inventory also has defective hats, I need to know this before I sell the kits. If my inventory is good, then I can overnight a pair of assembled rotors and hats to Mike's shop and they can get back to the installation.

I'll keep you posted on the progress. Mike, on behalf of StopTech and from me, I apologize for your inconvenience. This shouldn't have happened and we'll make it right.
 

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TCM said:
I have seen this before on a set of Stoptechs on a 540i. The bolts do not match up properly with the screw in place on that particular car. Other then that, I have heard nothing bad about the company quality control standards though. So I am sure this was a freak thing. Please keep us updated.
That was back in the dark ages when StopTech made the hats specifically for the M5. The M5 uses a pair of rotor retaining screws while the 540i, 530i, 528i, and 525i use a single rotor retaining screw in a different location on the hub. Shortly after becoming a StopTech dealer, I suggested that StopTech consolidate the design of the hats so they would work with either model. They did. Now, the same StopTech E39 kit will bolt up to an M5 or a non-M 5-Series and be able to utilize the factory rotor retaining screw(s).
 

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Here's the latest update on how this issue is being handled.

This morning, an M5 wheel bearing/hub and a pair of rotor retaining screws were purchased from a local BMW dealer. All the rotor hats in StopTech's inventory were checked against the design drawings and were test fitted to the BMW hub. All were within spec and all of them mounted to the hub without problems.

Yesterday, both front rotors/hats were shipped via UPS by Mike's mechanic back to StopTech. They are scheduled to arrive at StopTech tomorrow. At that time, both hats will be measured against the spec and tested to see if they can be mounted on the BMW hub. If one or both are out of spec, replacement rotors will be sent overnight back to Mike's shop. If both hats are within spec, then we have a mystery and something is wrong on the car. At that point, StopTech is preparing to have Matt Weiss make the 5 hour drive north to participate in the installation and chase the real problem to ground.

In parallel, StopTech traced the batch number of the hat back to production, based on information I provided them. The hats in Mike's kit came from two production runs ago. Other M5 kits in the same production run have been installed without problems. So, assuming there's something wrong with Mike's hat, it didn't affect all of the other hats in the same production run. That rules out a set-up error on the CNC machine.

In the next 24 hours, we should have a more definitive answer on what happened. In the meantime, I'll be checking my own inventory against the specifications and test-fitting to an M5 hub before sending anything out from here. More details as they become available.
 

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DZeckhausen said:
At that point, StopTech is preparing to have Matt Weiss make the 5 hour drive north to participate in the installation and chase the real problem to ground.

In parallel, StopTech traced the batch number of the hat back to production, based on information I provided them.

/QUOTE]

Wow, talk about customer service from Dave Z and Stop Tech, very impressive.
Regards,
Jerry
 

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Discussion Starter #9
DZeckhausen said:
I'll keep you posted on the progress. Mike, on behalf of StopTech and from me, I apologize for your inconvenience. This shouldn't have happened and we'll make it right.
Dave: Many thanks for all your help with this issue. There's certainly no need to apologize. Both you and StopTech are living up to your reputations for stellar customer service!

Tell Matt that if it turns out that the problem is with my wheel hubs and he needs to come up and work with my shop in Monterey to resolve it, I'll come and get him in the Cessna! Torrance is only a 1.5 hour flight from here, rather than a 5 hour drive! :D

Mike
 

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Ridgeback_Pilot said:
Tell Matt that if it turns out that the problem is with my wheel hubs and he needs to come up and work with my shop in Monterey to resolve it, I'll come and get him in the Cessna! Torrance is only a 1.5 hour flight from here, rather than a 5 hour drive! :D

Mike
Very Nice!
 

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gsfent said:
DZeckhausen said:
At that point, StopTech is preparing to have Matt Weiss make the 5 hour drive north to participate in the installation and chase the real problem to ground.

In parallel, StopTech traced the batch number of the hat back to production, based on information I provided them.

/QUOTE]

Wow, talk about customer service from Dave Z and Stop Tech, very impressive.
Regards,
Jerry
Dave Z is da man = just shame he cant sell to the UK or Emea... :cheers:
 

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Whizzkid11 said:
Dave Z is da man = just shame he cant sell to the UK or Emea... :cheers:
I can't do UK or Europe, but I can sell in the Middle East, Asia, and Africa. I've already sent kits to Singapore and Kazakhstan.

This is probably a bad time and a bad thread to make the following announcement! :3: But here goes anyway. I now have a complete assortment of M5 front kits in stock in all colors (red, black, silver) and either slotted or drilled. I also have M3, M5 and X5 4-wheel kits in stock (red/slotted), all ready for same day shipment.

I've now got an entire wall of StopTech kits. It seems warmer in here now! Does anyone know the R-value of a stack of StopTech big brakes? :blink:
 

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Wow, very impressive customer service from both Dave Z. and Stoptech. I am glad to see this situation being resolved the way it should be. My hat goes off to both of you.

Travis
 

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Here's an update. Sure enough, there was somthing wrong with the hat on one rotor. But it wasn't what we expected. The alignment of the bolt and rotor retaining holes, in relationship to the three dowel pin holes, was perfect. The problem was the centerbore on the hat. It was below specification by almost a couple tenths of a millimeter. This was preventing the hat from laying flush against the hub and that's why the rotor retaining screws didn't thread into the M5 hub. The photograph tricked us because it was taken slightly off axis. The photo made it appear that the holes weren't lining up properly. That was a red herring.

The defective hat was replaced and the rotors are on their way back to Mike's mechanic. It looks like Matt Weiss won't get to ride in the Cessna after all :cool:

In the meantime, StopTech is going back and investigating why this one hat was out of spec. I'll let you know what they find. And I've just measured all the hats in my inventory with a digital caliper accurate to .01 millimeters and they all check out as within spec. Phew!

Mike, sorry again about this problem! Please let us know how the installation goes and how you like your brakes.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Dave: Thanks for your diligence, and that of StopTech, in resolving this issue. I'll look forward to completing the installation and trying out the new brakes!

Cheers, Mike
 

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Ridgeback_Pilot said:
Tell Matt that if it turns out that the problem is with my wheel hubs and he needs to come up and work with my shop in Monterey to resolve it, I'll come and get him in the Cessna! Torrance is only a 1.5 hour flight from here, rather than a 5 hour drive! :D

Mike
You're a true pilot Mike; any excuse to get up in the air is the best excuse. Now I need to come up with a good one...
Wow, this is some seriously impressive customer service! Errors do happen, but that is some high level of dedication to your customers. :thumbsup:
:cheers:
 

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DZeckhausen said:
Here's an update. Sure enough, there was somthing wrong with the hat on one rotor. But it wasn't what we expected. The alignment of the bolt and rotor retaining holes, in relationship to the three dowel pin holes, was perfect. The problem was the centerbore on the hat. It was below specification by almost a couple tenths of a millimeter. This was preventing the hat from laying flush against the hub and that's why the rotor retaining screws didn't thread into the M5 hub. The photograph tricked us because it was taken slightly off axis. The photo made it appear that the holes weren't lining up properly. That was a red herring.

The defective hat was replaced and the rotors are on their way back to Mike's mechanic. It looks like Matt Weiss won't get to ride in the Cessna after all :cool:

In the meantime, StopTech is going back and investigating why this one hat was out of spec. I'll let you know what they find. And I've just measured all the hats in my inventory with a digital caliper accurate to .01 millimeters and they all check out as within spec. Phew!

Mike, sorry again about this problem! Please let us know how the installation goes and how you like your brakes.

Dave-very impressive customer service, both on your part and on Stoptech's. Way to go.

I've yet to install my set. How would I determine if it was in the same batch and if it's affected?
 

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01M5 said:
Dave-very impressive customer service, both on your part and on Stoptech's. Way to go.

I've yet to install my set. How would I determine if it was in the same batch and if it's affected?
If you check the packing slip that came on your kit (since yours was drop-shipped directly from StopTech) I think it will have StopTech order number 14346 in the upper right hand corner. If my records are wrong, please let me know. I'll check with StopTech this morning to see what batch that order came from and let you know.

Otherwise, you could use an accurate digital caliper and measure the opening in the center of the rotor hat. It should be 79mm, or just a whisker larger, in diameter. If it's 78.8 or smaller, then we've got a problem. Measure carefully, because, if your measuring instrument isn't centered, the indicated reading will be smaller and it will give you a false alarm.

If you don't have a tool and you plan to install the brakes yourself, than a relatively easy test is as follows. Unbolt the stock caliper from one side of the car, and remove the stock rotor. Test fit the StopTech rotor and see if you can mount it to the hub and install both rotor retaining screws. If that works, then check the other rotor the same way. This way, you don't get too far into the installation before knowing for sure. It would have been a real pain had Mike's mechanic completely installed one side and then discovered the second half of the kit didn't fit! (Recall that only one hat was bad in his kit.)

At this point, it appears only a single hat was affected, rather than the entire production run.
 

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I did a 4 wheel Stoptech BBK install in January (ordered from Dave Z.) Zero issues with the install - everything fit perfectly.

Some of you recall that I originally had a Dinan (Brembo GT) 4 wheel BBK installed on my car shortly after Dinan released the kit. To make a long story short - I had to remove the Dinan kit from the car due to severe judder issues (even after MULTIPLE bed-in sessions a la Dave Z) that Brembo (via Dinan) attributed to the "problematic" suspension in the E39 M5. :rolleyes: The Dinan kit was a problem right from the start - the rotor retaining bolt did not seat properly on the calipers, the brakes were hard to bleed, the BMW M tech who works on my car hated the whole experience.

The stoptechs, on the other hand, we easy to install, everything fit properly, they stop better (in my opinion), and are $1K less expensive than the Dinan/Brembo kit, and there is zero judder under hard braking.

Don't get me wrong, I would have preferred to stick with the Dinan/Brembo set up, but the judder issues and the fitment issues pushed me over to Stoptechs.

Just my 2 cents.

Jeff cherrsagai
 
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