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Discussion starter · #681 ·
Ended up being $585 mounted and balanced for the pair and no one had to touch my car, just the way I like it. No scratches either that I can see on initial inspection, love this place.

1923 date code so so fresh! That’s May of this year…

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Discussion starter · #682 ·
Put my front wheels on with new tires today, replaced the main v belt tensioner as it had some oil around the rubber boot, but now that I pulled it out and replaced it. I think it might just have been oil coming down from a change or something and collecting on the rubber boot. The tensioner seems fine and I replaced it not that long ago… new belts for the AC and primary belt as well.

Took another three looks inside my oil filter, cap to check out the timing chain guide with the borescope just to make myself even more crazy.


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Discussion starter · #683 ·
One of my brand new tires was leaking as soon as I put the wheel on the car, it went down to 15psi over night. Had to bring it back to the tire shop to take a look, they confirmed there was a bead leak and fixed it.

Also, here is my parts like I ordered for the BIG chain guide job:

ECS:
TDC PINTDC PIN
ES#: 3200947 Mfg#: 112300

Timing chain guide bolt - priced eachTiming chain guide bolt - priced each
ES#: 22213 Mfg#: 11311745409

Qty: 1


2% off MSRP | $25.35VANOS Diaphragm Spring SetVANOS Diaphragm Spring Set
ES#: 23235 Mfg#: 11367833218

Qty: 4


Camshaft securing pinsCamshaft securing pins

ES#: 3201003 Mfg#: 117120

Qty: 1

VANOS Tool KitVANOS Tool Kit
ES#: 2618921 Mfg#: 83300493429KT


FCP Euro Orders:
REI-153649401 BMW Timing Cover Gasket Set - Reinz 11140001186
REI-153406301 BMW Timing Cover Gasket Set (Lower) - Reinz 11140001187
CTO-12012045B BMW Land Rover Engine Crankshaft Seal - Corteco 12012045B
BMW-11311406165 BMW Engine Timing Chain Tensioner - Genuine BMW 11311406165
IWI-50046791 BMW Timing Chain - Iwis 11311747437
VNE-9451910 BMW Camshaft Position Sensor - VNE 12147539173 (QTY=2)
VNE-9453210 BMW Camshaft Position Sensor - VNE 13627796054 (QTY=2)
REI-703642900 BMW VANOS Solenoid Cover Gasket - Reinz 11361406838
BMW-11361406944 BMW Washer - Genuine BMW 11361406944
BMW-11531406249 BMW Water Pipe O-Ring - Genuine BMW 11531406249
BMW-07129952107 BMW Hose Clamp - Genuine BMW 07129952107
BMW-07119963355 BMW Timing Chain Tensioner Gasket - Genuine BMW 07119963355
BMW-11151406900 BMW Oil Separator Hose - Genuine BMW 11151406900
BMW-11531407002 BMW Engine Oil Cooler Gasket - Genuine BMW 11531407002
MOL-LM2024 10W60 Synthoil Race Tech GT1 Engine Oil (5 Liter) - Liqui Moly LM2024
BMW-82141467704 BMW Coolant/Antifreeze (1 Gallon) - Genuine BMW 82141467704
BMW-07119963072 BMW Gasket Ring - Genuine BMW 07119963072
BMW-11311406366 BMW Timing Guide Rail - Genuine BMW 11311406366
BMW-11311406280 BMW Timing Chain Guide Rail - Genuine BMW 11311406280
IWI-50034380 BMW Engine Timing Chain - Iwis 11311407052
BMW Engine Timing Chain Tensioner - Genuine BMW 11311406166
BMW Oil Dipstick O-Ring - Genuine BMW 11431707164
BMW Engine Oil Pan Gasket - Elring 11137831014
BMW Oil Pan Gasket - Elring 11131407532
BMW Engine Water Pump Gasket - Genuine BMW 11511406765
BMW Torx Bolt (M12 X130) - Genuine BMW 11231402618 (QTY=4)
BMW Hex Bolt - Genuine BMW 07119913589 (QTY=24)
 
Let me know how it goes. I'm in the process of acquiring parts so I can do this job as well. Would you be willing to rent out the VANOS tool when you're done with it? I'll pay a security deposit of course. Anyway you can film the process? I've seen DIY videos for timing chain replacements, but not one done with the special tool.

Check this thread out. The OP used Fumoto drain valves to replace the coolant bolts in the block to make servicing the cooling system less messy in the future. The size is M14 x 1.5. I went with the Stahlbus oil drain valve myself.
 
One of my brand new tires was leaking as soon as I put the wheel on the car, it went down to 15psi over night. Had to bring it back to the tire shop to take a look, they confirmed there was a bead leak and fixed it.

Also, here is my parts like I ordered for the BIG chain guide job:

ECS:
TDC PINTDC PIN
ES#: 3200947 Mfg#: 112300

Timing chain guide bolt - priced eachTiming chain guide bolt - priced each
ES#: 22213 Mfg#: 11311745409

Qty: 1


2% off MSRP | $25.35VANOS Diaphragm Spring SetVANOS Diaphragm Spring Set
ES#: 23235 Mfg#: 11367833218

Qty: 4


Camshaft securing pinsCamshaft securing pins

ES#: 3201003 Mfg#: 117120

Qty: 1

VANOS Tool KitVANOS Tool Kit
ES#: 2618921 Mfg#: 83300493429KT


FCP Euro Orders:
REI-153649401 BMW Timing Cover Gasket Set - Reinz 11140001186
REI-153406301 BMW Timing Cover Gasket Set (Lower) - Reinz 11140001187
CTO-12012045B BMW Land Rover Engine Crankshaft Seal - Corteco 12012045B
BMW-11311406165 BMW Engine Timing Chain Tensioner - Genuine BMW 11311406165
IWI-50046791 BMW Timing Chain - Iwis 11311747437
VNE-9451910 BMW Camshaft Position Sensor - VNE 12147539173 (QTY=2)
VNE-9453210 BMW Camshaft Position Sensor - VNE 13627796054 (QTY=2)
REI-703642900 BMW VANOS Solenoid Cover Gasket - Reinz 11361406838
BMW-11361406944 BMW Washer - Genuine BMW 11361406944
BMW-11531406249 BMW Water Pipe O-Ring - Genuine BMW 11531406249
BMW-07129952107 BMW Hose Clamp - Genuine BMW 07129952107
BMW-07119963355 BMW Timing Chain Tensioner Gasket - Genuine BMW 07119963355
BMW-11151406900 BMW Oil Separator Hose - Genuine BMW 11151406900
BMW-11531407002 BMW Engine Oil Cooler Gasket - Genuine BMW 11531407002
MOL-LM2024 10W60 Synthoil Race Tech GT1 Engine Oil (5 Liter) - Liqui Moly LM2024
BMW-82141467704 BMW Coolant/Antifreeze (1 Gallon) - Genuine BMW 82141467704
BMW-07119963072 BMW Gasket Ring - Genuine BMW 07119963072
BMW-11311406366 BMW Timing Guide Rail - Genuine BMW 11311406366
BMW-11311406280 BMW Timing Chain Guide Rail - Genuine BMW 11311406280
IWI-50034380 BMW Engine Timing Chain - Iwis 11311407052
BMW Engine Timing Chain Tensioner - Genuine BMW 11311406166
BMW Oil Dipstick O-Ring - Genuine BMW 11431707164
BMW Engine Oil Pan Gasket - Elring 11137831014
BMW Oil Pan Gasket - Elring 11131407532
BMW Engine Water Pump Gasket - Genuine BMW 11511406765
BMW Torx Bolt (M12 X130) - Genuine BMW 11231402618 (QTY=4)
BMW Hex Bolt - Genuine BMW 07119913589 (QTY=24)

11137831014 - this is the upper oil pan gasket, are you planning to drop the upper oil pan? it's not required for the chain-guide job. I would avoid doing this until you do rod-bearings.

07119913589 - these bolts are not that unique, and can be sourced from McMaster Carr, I'll post what I receive for reference (I'm getting a set of 12.9 & 10.9 grade to compare)

07589062376 - you'll need drei bond/honda bond (clear in color) or similar for the timing cover gasket and the valve cover gaskets (Corteco EVO300 (black in color) is listed as an alternative to drei bond). Installation Tip: you apply this both to the gasket, and the 90 degree corners between the timing cover, and the gasket (cylinder head gasket, and upper oil pan gasket)

12012045B / 11141275466 - This seal should be able to come off with the timing cover, but installing it is difficult. There is a set of removal and installation tools, I'm listing just for reference:
  • 83300490876 - seal puller (comes with 3 inserts that go into the crankshaft for the threaded rod to push against)
  • 83300493589 - this is the seal press (not puller), it requires that you use the BMW bolts (11231402618) to clamp it to the crankshaft
  • 83300493588 - this is the guide bush, that goes over the crankshaft, it allows you to slide the seal over the crankshaft without getting hung up on the edge
edit:

Installation tip 1: set the Bank 1 Exhaust cam first, from what I've seen recently, this one is the one that seems to be most difficult to set. The other three cams seem to go into place without fuss.

Installation tip 2: shaving down the 27mm open ended wrench is not easy in my opinion (and I have a bench grinder); the other thing to lookout for is variations in the wrench you choose. The angle of the crowfoot-vs-the handle or the angle you shave the fingers; both of these will impact if your wrench hits the ABS pump before getting the Bank 1 Exhaust cam into initial position.
 
Discussion starter · #686 ·
Thank you @JohnAnthony ! any additional information I can gather here will be helpful to me during this job.

I bought the upper oil pan gasket as I was cross referencing another person's list and think they were also doing rod bearings, so I am aware that I will not be using this, but will keep it in deep storage as it was cheap enough.

I did buy the cam gear bolts from FCP, seeing as these are not typically replaced and it is the CAM hub bolts that are the weak point, I have sourced 30 of them from Fastenall per Peter's recommendation: SKU 2139568 M6-1.0 x 25mm L 5mm Hex Drive Class 12.9 Black Oxide Alloy Steel Socket Head Cap Screw. I also got some red loctite to install on these bolts. From looking at the diagrams, is it safe to assume that these cam hub bolts can be removed from one gear, which would allow you to pull that gear off and replace those two small chains? Then I was planning on just replacing the bolts on the other gear one at a time once the chain is on. I've read about these and the small torque they require, I believe Peter said to use 14nm on these upgraded bolts, with loctite.

I have 2 tubes of legit DreiBond that I plan to use on the valve cover gasket mating areas (have already recently done this job last year, so gaskets are basically new) and as well as on the re-used upper oil pan gasket and head gasket that's sticking out.

I've done some research on the front main seal replacement, and what M539Restorations does is a wee bit sketchy drilling and using screws to pry it out, so I figured if I had to take the cover off anyways, removal on the bench would be better/easier. I am going to confirm I have a proper seal driver as the OE one (which was cheap) was not available and on backorder of course. Will also measure depth of the existing seal before replacing it so I know specifically how deep it goes. In Yves' videos of the timing chain guide job, I believe he installed the seal in the cover off the car, but then had to carefully snake the inner part around the crank hub so it seats perfectly.. I did like M539Restorations method of using 2 old harmonic balancer bolts with the piece of wood to slowly drive the new seal in. This portion and getting the vanos right are the most difficult parts of the job that I can see...

Great Installation tip 1, I will make sure I heed this advice!

regarding the 27mm wrench, here's what I bought, was planning to shave both sides using my angle grinder to make it skinnier and look more like the speedhaven tool. Actually is might be thin enough as it is right now.. I bought this as it was posted in another member's thread who did this job...


Image
 
Discussion starter · #687 ·
While I'm at it, I felt silly not to replace the oil level sensor as well as the water pump pulley as I've had some bad experiences with it cracking upon removal on my E46 in the past. Confirmed it is made of a composite plastic material so I ordered one also. Have that O ring for the Cyclone drain that goes to the oil pan, also have the O ring and washer for the oil dipstick tube.
 
On the front crank seal, it was super easy to remove with the seal puller I mentioned in my thread. You just keep any sharp edge away from the crank. Way less sketchy than the drill and screw method. (Which I've done on 2 stroke crank seals) I was able to drive the seal in slowly with the home depot PVC caps I referenced as well.
 
Discussion starter · #689 ·
Thanks bud! I actually have a set of those Lisle seal pullers so that should work nicely, I also have a good set of large picks that might be helpful as well, just do not want to scratch anything of course!

Have a front wheel bearing install kit that has a variety of cups, I will see if any fit this crank seal perfectly..
 
I've done some research on the front main seal replacement, and what M539Restorations does is a wee bit sketchy drilling and using screws to pry it out, so I figured if I had to take the cover off anyways, removal on the bench would be better/easier. I am going to confirm I have a proper seal driver as the OE one (which was cheap) was not available and on backorder of course. Will also measure depth of the existing seal before replacing it so I know specifically how deep it goes.
Someone else posted about the seal tool and said they had to cut it to make it work right, ya no. Let me shed some light as to what that tool does. It aligns the seal perfectly square to the crank, or on the same plain as the end of the crank which is square cut. How it looks in the cover, even or not does not matter just square to the crank.
Having a seal square to what it is sealing is way more important than one may think. Not going to write an essay on why, just use that tool correctly. If you want to know more search but the explanation does not come up often. The main thing is as the shaft rotates and the seal is a little cocked the pressure against the seal rises and falls and can force small amounts of oil to breech the seal. IIRC the term is hydraulic pumping.
Where the seal "was" does matter a bit, your new seal can't be farther out where it might be riding on part of the shaft that was previously exposed to the elements and may no longer be perfectly polished or have other slight imperfections, err on a little farther in if anything but exactly where it was likely will be good also. That tool is only necessary for the last 1/16" and does not get used until the cover is back on the car, need the crank. The cover must be tight so that the seal is not going to move when the cover is tightened. I have put them in the cover part way before install but that makes it tricky to be gentle on the seal going over the crank. There are things to consider but if the tool is used correctly things will be perfect.
 
One of my brand new tires was leaking as soon as I put the wheel on the car, it went down to 15psi over night. Had to bring it back to the tire shop to take a look, they confirmed there was a bead leak and fixed it.

Also, here is my parts like I ordered for the BIG chain guide job:

ECS:
TDC PINTDC PIN
ES#: 3200947 Mfg#: 112300

Timing chain guide bolt - priced eachTiming chain guide bolt - priced each
ES#: 22213 Mfg#: 11311745409

Qty: 1


2% off MSRP | $25.35VANOS Diaphragm Spring SetVANOS Diaphragm Spring Set
ES#: 23235 Mfg#: 11367833218

Qty: 4


Camshaft securing pinsCamshaft securing pins

ES#: 3201003 Mfg#: 117120

Qty: 1

VANOS Tool KitVANOS Tool Kit
ES#: 2618921 Mfg#: 83300493429KT


FCP Euro Orders:
REI-153649401 BMW Timing Cover Gasket Set - Reinz 11140001186
REI-153406301 BMW Timing Cover Gasket Set (Lower) - Reinz 11140001187
CTO-12012045B BMW Land Rover Engine Crankshaft Seal - Corteco 12012045B
BMW-11311406165 BMW Engine Timing Chain Tensioner - Genuine BMW 11311406165
IWI-50046791 BMW Timing Chain - Iwis 11311747437
VNE-9451910 BMW Camshaft Position Sensor - VNE 12147539173 (QTY=2)
VNE-9453210 BMW Camshaft Position Sensor - VNE 13627796054 (QTY=2)
REI-703642900 BMW VANOS Solenoid Cover Gasket - Reinz 11361406838
BMW-11361406944 BMW Washer - Genuine BMW 11361406944
BMW-11531406249 BMW Water Pipe O-Ring - Genuine BMW 11531406249
BMW-07129952107 BMW Hose Clamp - Genuine BMW 07129952107
BMW-07119963355 BMW Timing Chain Tensioner Gasket - Genuine BMW 07119963355
BMW-11151406900 BMW Oil Separator Hose - Genuine BMW 11151406900
BMW-11531407002 BMW Engine Oil Cooler Gasket - Genuine BMW 11531407002
MOL-LM2024 10W60 Synthoil Race Tech GT1 Engine Oil (5 Liter) - Liqui Moly LM2024
BMW-82141467704 BMW Coolant/Antifreeze (1 Gallon) - Genuine BMW 82141467704
BMW-07119963072 BMW Gasket Ring - Genuine BMW 07119963072
BMW-11311406366 BMW Timing Guide Rail - Genuine BMW 11311406366
BMW-11311406280 BMW Timing Chain Guide Rail - Genuine BMW 11311406280
IWI-50034380 BMW Engine Timing Chain - Iwis 11311407052
BMW Engine Timing Chain Tensioner - Genuine BMW 11311406166
BMW Oil Dipstick O-Ring - Genuine BMW 11431707164
BMW Engine Oil Pan Gasket - Elring 11137831014
BMW Oil Pan Gasket - Elring 11131407532
BMW Engine Water Pump Gasket - Genuine BMW 11511406765
BMW Torx Bolt (M12 X130) - Genuine BMW 11231402618 (QTY=4)
BMW Hex Bolt - Genuine BMW 07119913589 (QTY=24)
Are the IWIS chains good to use? I wanna say I just saw something recently saying the IWIS chains quality are hit and miss and to use genuine BMW? Maybe @herrubermensch can chime in about it?

I mean if they are ok to use then good. I'll happily buy them. Especially cost compared to genuine.

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Discussion starter · #692 ·
Are the IWIS chains good to use? I wanna say I just saw something recently saying the IWIS chains quality are hit and miss and to use genuine BMW? Maybe @herrubermensch can chime in about it?

I mean if they are ok to use then good. I'll happily buy them. Especially cost compared to genuine.

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IWIS is the OE supplier of the chains, so should be what Genuine BMW is using essentially. Chains were cheaper but not that much cheaper.
 
Prices through FCP

IWIS chains: $201.97

Genuine BMW: $383.97

$182 difference. Still quite cheaper. But of course that $182 will be needed on other stuff. Feeling your pain too as I'm in the process of buying the parts as well. Paid around $1200 for all the parts when I did the chain guides on my 540i using all genuine BMW parts. Ok yes, that was 10 years ago. But the fact that I'm almost at that from buying the guides alone...oooowwww!


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Discussion starter · #694 ·
I guess the chains were significantly cheaper, so I was wrong! Yeah the feeling of getting so raped buying all the stuff better pay off in the end with a perfectly running engine or I might have to go jump off a bridge.

Just the 3 guides now:
One that just got re-listed with the oil tube - $424
U shaped Guide = $300
One piece composite Guide = $65

Total = $789 for just the 3 guides and the U shaped one is so ridiculously put together, it honestly feels like a total joke to me.

I bought new internal tensioners also as why the F not while I'm in there, those were $350ish each.

@Du_Ma_M5 check out the attached file here, it goes through replacing the timing gears with the Vanos tool..

ahh crap, scratch that it won't let me upload it since it's not an allowed extension (strange, as it's a doc file).
 
Yeah got those ridiculously priced things as well.

Really kicking myself for not doing this job 3 years ago during covid when I had all the free time and parts were way cheaper. Even though the car only had around 108k miles at that time. Should've done it anyways to save myself the current headache and annoyance. D'oh!

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Thank you @JohnAnthony ! any additional information I can gather here will be helpful to me during this job.

I bought the upper oil pan gasket as I was cross referencing another person's list and think they were also doing rod bearings, so I am aware that I will not be using this, but will keep it in deep storage as it was cheap enough.

I did buy the cam gear bolts from FCP, seeing as these are not typically replaced and it is the CAM hub bolts that are the weak point, I have sourced 30 of them from Fastenall per Peter's recommendation: SKU 2139568 M6-1.0 x 25mm L 5mm Hex Drive Class 12.9 Black Oxide Alloy Steel Socket Head Cap Screw. I also got some red loctite to install on these bolts. From looking at the diagrams, is it safe to assume that these cam hub bolts can be removed from one gear, which would allow you to pull that gear off and replace those two small chains? Then I was planning on just replacing the bolts on the other gear one at a time once the chain is on. I've read about these and the small torque they require, I believe Peter said to use 14nm on these upgraded bolts, with loctite.

I have 2 tubes of legit DreiBond that I plan to use on the valve cover gasket mating areas (have already recently done this job last year, so gaskets are basically new) and as well as on the re-used upper oil pan gasket and head gasket that's sticking out.

I've done some research on the front main seal replacement, and what M539Restorations does is a wee bit sketchy drilling and using screws to pry it out, so I figured if I had to take the cover off anyways, removal on the bench would be better/easier. I am going to confirm I have a proper seal driver as the OE one (which was cheap) was not available and on backorder of course. Will also measure depth of the existing seal before replacing it so I know specifically how deep it goes. In Yves' videos of the timing chain guide job, I believe he installed the seal in the cover off the car, but then had to carefully snake the inner part around the crank hub so it seats perfectly.. I did like M539Restorations method of using 2 old harmonic balancer bolts with the piece of wood to slowly drive the new seal in. This portion and getting the vanos right are the most difficult parts of the job that I can see...

Great Installation tip 1, I will make sure I heed this advice!

regarding the 27mm wrench, here's what I bought, was planning to shave both sides using my angle grinder to make it skinnier and look more like the speedhaven tool. Actually is might be thin enough as it is right now.. I bought this as it was posted in another member's thread who did this job...

[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]

Image
Removing the seal can be done two ways:
  • With the timing cover on the engine (special tool needed***)
  • With the timing covered off the engine (no speacial tool needed, just punch it out)
***Removing the seal with either screws or a generic seal puller is not ideal, unless you don't mind the score marks on the timing cover. The BMW seal is on there extremely tight, and you'll just damage the lip of the seal when using a puller like a Lisle 58430 or 56750.

For installation, the seal is flush with the timing cover, so if using the block of wood just drive it flush. The greater hurdle is getting the seal over the crankshaft, and that applies to both the above methods.


If you can get the cover off with the seal attached, and you also manage to put on the new seal with the cover off the car, I think you can get away with just the guide bush tool: 83300493588

In regard to the removal of the two small cam chains, the TIS says:
  • Rotate the crank 45 deg counter-clockwise, which you should do (it's not a big deal)
  • Remove the Cam-locking pins
    • For Bank 1, TIS notes say this will allow the cams to spring forward (clockwise)
    • For Bank 2, the TIS does not say the cams will spring/rotate
This is pretty much where I'm at right now, the timing between the cams should not be an issue. I would mark the 12 o'clock position on all hubs, sprockets, and spacers, when everything is still assembled. iirc, the bolt holes aim at the 12 o'clock position when everything is at TDC and locked with crank & cam pins.

note: 12 o'clock is in the cylinder head's reference plane, not yours. In you reference plane (the ground) that would be 45 degrees over, e.g. between the 10 & 11 o'clock position on Bank 1, and the 1 & 2 o'clock position on Bank 2

I'm going to work on the car this weekend and I'll try and upload reference images for some of the above.
 
***Removing the seal with either screws or a generic seal puller is not ideal, unless you don't mind the score marks on the timing cover. The BMW seal is on there extremely tight, and you'll just damage the lip of the seal when using a puller like a Lisle 58430 or 56750.
.
With Lisle 56920, the seal was easily removed on my car.. Others here have used it without issue as well. You're hooking it in and pulling the vertical face of the seal from the inside. The OD of the seal is protecting the cover. Unless there's massive operator error, nothing is getting scored.
 
With Lisle 56920, the seal was easily removed on my car.. Others here have used it without issue as well. You're hooking it in and pulling the vertical face of the seal from the inside. The OD of the seal is protecting the cover. Unless there's massive operator error, nothing is getting scored.
I'll defer to those who've use the 56750 / 56920, I've only tried with the Lisle 58430 while waiting for the BMW puller. My seal must've been on there particularly tight, because all the 58430 did was bend the lip of the seal without moving seal itself. Not saying it's impossible, but I don't see how you got that large hook on the seal without it riding against the crank. Even if you leverage the flat part of the hook against the opposite end of the seal, I'd think you still run the risk of pushing the the seal inward while trying to leverage the opposite end.

 
Without a time machine and recording it, it's nearly impossible to explain exactly how I did it. However, it was probably the easiest crank seal I've done and the crank and cover were not close to being damaged.

No need to nuke it. Get it out without touching the sealing surfaces and get the new one back in at the same depth, square.
 
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