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No E60 here, kind sir! I have a 2003 E39 M5.

We have pretty clean fuel up here in the PNW as well, but 14 years is a long time for the filter to catch debris. I didn't cut the filter apart, but the hesitation completely went away after the filter change.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
No E60 here, kind sir! I have a 2003 E39 M5.

We have pretty clean fuel up here in the PNW as well, but 14 years is a long time for the filter to catch debris. I didn't cut the filter apart, but the hesitation completely went away after the filter change.
I was just going by your avatar image of that E60, so pardon me.

Hmmm interesting. I'm sure it would also stress the fuel pump if it was clogged as well. Strange that I don't seem to have much hesitation in sport mode though. I will continue testing driving it in sport mode every time I am in the car and see if that really makes a difference. 14 years is also a long time for a fuel pump.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
My new (used) rear subframe braces came in from Clemster! Gave them some Eastwood rust encapsulation treatment on whatever light surface rust there was, and put them in. Also seems like the Entire rear subframe was replaced when this car took a hit to the left rear quarter back in 2006 the only other damage I could see other than the subframe bars being bent was a small dent in the underside of the frame rail on the drivers side.

Old left New right...



Subframe sticker..


Also looks like my diff is a little leaky..




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Discussion Starter #25
:eek List price for that bare subframe (well, it does include bushings) is nearly $2000!
I know! the first thing I did was look it up... at least I know the bushings in there have around 50K miles, and are not what the factory put in originally. Might buy me some time when all is said and done, but really what it makes me do is cringe at what kind of accident this car was really in back in 2006.:eek7:
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Lucky me! Bout a month in of ownership and I am pretty sure I have this issue. Backed the car up on ramps last night in the cold wet rainy ground, got on my back to take a look and everything was solid underneath, but I did notice my diff was leaking a lot of fluid, and guibo while ok has some visible cracks. Car going to the dealer on Thursday for the airbag recall may have them just confirm this is what the problem is (rule out any issues with the diff other than leaking fluid and it needing new seals and a front bushing), but I am 99% sure right now. Only happens when car is cold started and I drive down the road on my way to work, once car gets up to speed, the rotational mass of the driveshaft seems to center itself out good. Also, once the car is warm and I assume this rubber warms up, the knocking does not occur. I can instantly feel it in the morning when I place my hand on the carpet between the rear seats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9QRsvkLGnM

If that is indeed my issue, I think I am going to get a rebuilt driveshaft with CSB installed and new guibo and do the entire thing.
 

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Fellow Masshole here,
Just recently picked up a 140k mile 02 M5, jet black on caramel, and have done a few things to it maintenance wise so far; guibo, diff seals, mounts, and fluid, and minor things like air and cabin filters. Last weekend I swapped out the shifter and boot for the F10 M5 shifter and boot. Just today I resealed the rear door vapor barriers and replaced the door lock actuators while in there. I am planning to do the transmission fluid tomorrow. But I am also having that hesitation issue in 1st and 2nd gear, so trying to figure out what it is. Didn't think of the fuel filter. Maybe I will order one of those and try that. Just a pain to get this car in the air to do all this maintenance. Anyway, if you figure out the hesitation (my vanos is also quiet), let me know, I appreciate it. Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
Nice to see a fellow masshole with an M5 close to me! I am in Fairhaven.

Those are the exact exhaust brackets I bought, make sure you get new bolts too, you will need them. You may also want to inspect the small metal clips that hold the O2 sensor wires to the heat shield, several of mine were rusted out and weren't even holding the wires anymore, it's a cheap addition to your order and LIFETIME from FCP!

The more and more I read, the more and more I think that the hesitation may be a "thing" with this car, as many many people have replaced tons of parts only to have it still be there. Others say the only way to somewhat make it better is the Evolve Alpha N tune, or another tune. I had some vanos hesitation in my E46, but it wasn't nearly as bad as what I am experiencing in this car, and you'd think that would manifest itself in all gears.

I'm wondering if mine feels worse because my CSB is so so so bad right now. I also think that the rear end suspension rub I felt over deep compression hits, was actually my driveshaft rubbing against the transmission tunnel! It goes away once the car is warm, but there is a deep bump I hit a few times coming into my work parking lot slowly that has caused what sounds like a tire rubbing on a plastic shield, or shock, it was a definite something's moving and then rubbing noise. Now I think what was happening is that the sudden bounce pushed the driveshaft into the transmission tunnel for a quick rub because the CSB is so bad. This is the same type of knocking I get when starting the car and driving it cold in 1 and 2 first thing in the morning, although a slightly higher pitch and louder because of the larger bump.

Car going in on Thursday, I will have them check everything out, and quote me prices. If it's astronomical, I will do what I can myself.

Did you do the diff seals yourself? How bad was that job? Did you need to remove the entire diff from the car? I assume that's the only way to get this done.

And hey, I just bought one of these (wanted 2 but only 1 in stock) to get the car higher and safer. Seems legit, but have not used yet.



$40 at Tractor Supply, so don't pay $64 on Amazon, or elsewhere. The home depot website also had them for like $36, but they say out of stock online and in the stores.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Also just for a personal note for my thread, the driver's rear tire was at 15psi this weekend! I pulled the wheel off and inspected closely all around and it seems fine. I will keep an eye on this one for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
AHh, and just as I research parts needed to do the driveshaft replacement myself, I felt like reviewing the pic I took of my guibo when under the car the other day to see how my bolts were. All looked fine, but to my surprise, all were going in the same direction! White mark on Guibo too, so I'm thinking that when this car was being repaired from it's accident, they removed the driveshaft and then the morons who reinstalled it did not do it properly and inserted all bolts in the same direction, potentially causing the cracks that are now on the guibo! Now it makes me want to do this job myself even more as I don't want anyone touching this car with their incapable hands! Pics coming in a few...
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Idiots



Zoom in to see the cracks in the rubber. Nothing catastrophic and maybe even normal if this is the original one, but just angered by improper install...


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Discussion Starter #33
This find also makes me think that maybe, just maybe my center support bearing is just loose? I am borrowing a friend's inspection camera tomorrow and will take a look to hopefully see it and determine if it's just bad or loose. Imagine it's just loose and I just need to drop the exhaust a little and lower the heat shield and tighten it? Can't possibly be that easy, but at least I will know by looking at it rather than having to drop the exhaust and shield just to take a peek.
 

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Discussion Starter #34 (Edited)
Correction, I am the dumb one, that guibo is indeed installed correctly. Arrows pointing toward ears on the driveshaft or tranny and all bolts ok to go in the same direction. But must only tighten the side (nut or bolt) that’s against the ear/flange so the rubber does not twist.

Lol reading my earlier post I sound like such a fool!

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Discussion Starter #35
Aannnnnd here’s my first “recommended action plan” from the dealer! Lol.





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Discussion Starter #36
So get this gents... I see this estimate, and then ask the service rep if I could talk to the mechanic to see how bad the diff was leaking to tell if they topped it off (he said they did not as the fill plug was inaccessible, HA), and to ask questions about what it means when a release bearing goes bad on a clutch. The other dealer specific sheet that had my airbag recall info on it says "can hear release bearing making noise when vehicle is cold, see attached sheet."

I basically just wanted to know if I can buy myself a little time with these issues, or if I need to do something ASAP.

Service rep goes and gets the head mechanic, says "this is THE GUY you want to talk to." I speak to him a minute, he immediately goes in the back to get a flashlight and is laying on the ground under my car while it's in the service bay ready for me to take home. Says, Yup diff leaking from pinion seal, between a weep and a gush, but def not a gush and has fluid, and explained that if it goes bad and has a catastrophic failure, it happens while driving, so just make sure it has good fluid and do it as soon as you can. Told him I had an entire diff fluid change kit at home with both plugs and was going to top off today. OK, fine.

Then I make him listen to the "springy" noise my clutch makes when depressing and releasing, in neutral, or in gear, happens all the time. He listens, gets in the car, shifts into first and goes forward, putting some pressure on e-brake then goes backwards and immediately says "that's not the release bearing, that would make a high pitched sound that gets better as soon as you depress the clutch and it is always there." He tells me he's almost certain that it's the fingers or the springs on the clutch plate that have rusted a little and are now somewhat creaky because the car has obviously spent a lot of time sitting with PO, but basically nothing to worry about as clutch operation is fine. Maybe it gets better over time, who knows. I only hear that noise when it's super quiet and the car is off, as soon as it's on, I never hear it, so nice, $4700 off that bill, HA! (P.S. that was "worst case scenario" clutch job, with clutch kit, flywheel, and labor).

So as of right now, I have the rebuilt driveshaft with center bearing installed on it's way to me (thanks to the guy from the recent thread who installed this without dropping the exhaust for that business hookup!). That will be here Tuesday. I will attempt to replace the diff pinion seal while the driveshaft is out of the car, and am now gathering as many lifetime FCP parts as I can for this job.

Two questions: Is #6 here the front differential bushing?


Second question, does anyone have any idea why there is a comment on #11 here (securing plate - seems like this is the flange nut you need to mark and remove and reinstall in exactly the same spot) that says "Important! Drive flange and nut must Not be replaced!" ?? Should I NOT replace this flange nut? It's covered in grease so I'd assume it's fine to re-use.. just trying to figure out all the parts I should replace while I do this. Currently from this pic I have: #12 and 14 (what is #13?)
 

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That noise on clutch actuation is typical E39 M5/540i stuff. It's either the pp springs as he stated or more likely it's the guide bush wear (throwout bearing rides on the guide bush -- make sure you put in a new one when you do the clutch). If it is quiet (or not as loud) when cold but makes more noise when fully warmed/hot, it's typical. You don't need to really worry about it for the most part other than sounding like an old sailing ship when actuating the clutch. The clutch replacement job quote is beyond insane as I'm sure you know, but it's hard to imagine someone paying $5k to a dealer for such.

Similarly, the quote for the diff is crazy too. Heck, you could get a freshly rebuilt LSD M5 diff from diffsonline for $1799 and swap it in easily. This would come with fresh clutch plates and new seals all around.

As to the hesitation, it's hard to understand exactly what you're referring to. Perhaps a video showing the tach would help. The stock throttle mapping for North American delivered M5s is pretty horrid (very non-linear). Driving the car smoothly in 1st and performing a smooth 1-2 upshift is difficult to master from my memory banks. Tunes which include the Euro throttle map are very nice. The NA map was apparently a "tune to test" designed to either meet emissions or fuel economy testing goals (or both) -- at least that's been the assumption of many over the years.

It's great to see yet another E39 M5 being refurbished and having some care sent its way!

Regards,
Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter #38
^^ Thanks for the reply and the info Chuck! I am not touching the clutch at this time due to the master tech's advice on the noise as it does engage and disengage fine, and the sound is always there at the same level of noise when I step on the clutch, does not get worse or better with fully warm.

I asked them about the hesitation and they came back with nothing, just have to get used to it, or maybe eventually a tune. Feels sort of like vanos seals issue to me, but is not bad in Sport mode. Mostly, I've been gingerly driving this thing because of the bad CSB and driveshaft slapping the tunnel and rear diff leaking! Once that's all buttoned up I will give this car a good thrashing once and for all!

The 1-2 shift on my E46 was never good and kinda jerky the entire time I had that car too, must be a BMW throttle map thing.
 

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Once you get the drivetrain under control, we can revisit the hesitation. Then you can really evaluate the car under normal to WOT conditions. It's always possible a CPS has issues even though it's not thrown a code yet, or the MAFs are dirty, etc, etc.
 
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