[rrich49132]

I am torn between an E39 and an E60. First off I am going to the BMW dealer today to test drive a 2006 to see how I like it. I have driven and been looking hard for a 2002 0r 2003 E39 and from what I am finding looks like I can find with 70K miles of so for about $22K. I am very close to buying a nice one and just a bit reluctant at the present time as I want to make the right choice. I found a few super with very low miles and in excellent shape but they where over $30K and there was no way I would pay that as the next generation E60 was not much more money.

First off I can pay cash for the E39 so that is a big plus. If I buy an E60 will have to finance some of the car but not too much. I have been looking at prices and think I could get a 2006 for mid to high 30's and a 2007 for low $40's. I did find a 2006 with 44k miles with a Fidelity warranty through 2013 for $36K asking price. It seems most of the 2006's I find do not have any sort of warranty and if I buy that would be mandatory. I did find out from some research and a phone call to Fidelity that they no longer are offering warranties for the M5's as they have been loosing money on them.

Really torn. My first thought is that if I get the E39 and keep it in good shape and decide to go with an E60 in a year or two that the E39 will hold value well and that the e60 is still depreciating so I can't go wrong with getting the E39 now?

Decisions Decisions!!!

Will see how I like the E60. By the way it will take me a while to find one that already has a warranty if I pass on the one locally I mentioned that had the Fidelity warranty.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

I had an E39 and while I that was my first M love, the E60 is miles ahead in terms of everything. It delivers power in a very different way but man that S85 exhaust note is enough therapy to cure loads of problems.

In terms of the Fidelity warranty, talk to Bruce M. on this board, he offers them at reasonable margins.

 

[messex]

Make sure when you test the E60 you run it to the full 8000+ RPMs, even if it scares the sales guy a bit. The real fun on these cars starts after 5000 RPMs, and I've seen a couple of people mention that the car didn't seem that fast, then later, when testing again, and running it through its paces, they had a different thought. I like cruising around 40mph, then drop it into second (SMG) and stomp it. Unbelievable. Third is just as fun, but you can get in trouble there, quickly.

I haven't driven an E39, so can't really comment on comparison.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

Make sure when you test the E60 you run it to the full 8000+ RPMs, even if it scares the sales guy a bit. The real fun on these cars starts after 5000 RPMs, and I've seen a couple of people mention that the car didn't seem that fast, then later, when testing again, and running it through its paces, they had a different thought. I like cruising around 40mph, then drop it into second (SMG) and stomp it. Unbelievable. Third is just as fun, but you can get in trouble there, quickly.

I haven't driven an E39, so can't really comment on comparison.

This pretty much sums up the acceleration comparison between the two:

YouTube - Dinan BMW M5 E39 vs BMW M5 E60

And I agree, the real fun starts at 4k and above, and you don't need to be doing 100 mph to have fun. Try 2nd gear at 40 mph at 4.5k then hammer it...trust me.

 

[rrich49132]

Look like the E39 jumps in front for a few seconds till the E90 gets the RPM's up then it is all over.

 

[messex]

Also, make sure you hit the little magical 'M' button before your run. Just realize that it may (depends on settings) turn off DSC, so if you are cruising around a turn and you stomp it, it could get a little (or lot) loose! Boy is that fun, when you are expecting it - not so much when you first get the car and don't know what it can do (not that I did that, of course)....

 

[crds]

Also, make sure you hit the little magical 'M' button before your run. Just realize that it may (depends on settings) turn off DSC, so if you are cruising around a turn and you stomp it, it could get a little (or lot) loose! Boy is that fun, when you are expecting it - not so much when you first get the car and don't know what it can do (not that I did that, of course)....

I would not recommend mashing it to the floor in 2nd with M mode on and DSC off, unless you (a) really know what you're doing and (b) have significant space both around and in front of you to compensate for the fact that even if you know what you're doing you're going to need some room and (c) you're a good, experienced driver with lots of miles and performance driving abilities under your belt. My son is a great driver, and he has been to a performance driving school, but I would highly recommend against him trying this since he's only 18 and really doesn't have the skills to handle an E60 M5 in 2nd gear with DSC off putting 500hp down. Sorry, but that's the reality of it. He may not like me saying that, but it is in his best interest that I would recommend against it. With DSC on,... now that's a different story. He might get a chirp or two, but the car will take over if it gets away from him. I'd go for that.

Safety first. Seriously. Be safe.

-crds

 

[Dexter Morgan]

I don't see where he says he's 18 but if that is true then this is NOT the car for him. Start with a 545i or 550i, both are great cars and more suited for an 18 year old. Just because you have the means for an M5 doesn't mean you should get one, especially at 18. You don't need to your friends only to lose control and kill somebody as this car is most dangerous at high speeds.

And where is your father in all this? He's ok with it?

 

[messex]

I would not recommend mashing it to the floor in 2nd with M mode on and DSC off, unless you (a) really know what you're doing and (b) have significant space both around and in front of you to compensate for the fact that even if you know what you're doing you're going to need some room and (c) you're a good, experienced driver with lots of miles and performance driving abilities under your belt. My son is a great driver, and he has been to a performance driving school, but I would highly recommend against him trying this since he's only 18 and really doesn't have the skills to handle an E60 M5 in 2nd gear with DSC off putting 500hp down. Sorry, but that's the reality of it. He may not like me saying that, but it is in his best interest that I would recommend against it. With DSC on,... now that's a different story. He might get a chirp or two, but the car will take over if it gets away from him. I'd go for that.

Safety first. Seriously. Be safe.

-crds

Which is why I said, depending on the settings, it (the 'M' button) COULD turn DSC OFF, which could cause you to get loose around a turn if you don't realize how much power is being put down. My point wasn't to encourage it, as much as realize that if DSC is off, what that can mean if you do stomp it in second gear around a corner. It can be fun, but you can also lose the car very quickly. I know - I almost did the first time I got on it around a curve. Woke me up real quick...

 

[crds]

I don't see where he says he's 18 but if that is true then this is NOT the car for him. Start with a 545i or 550i, both are great cars and more suited for an 18 year old. Just because you have the means for an M5 doesn't mean you should get one, especially at 18. You don't need to your friends only to lose control and kill somebody as this car is most dangerous at high speeds.

And where is your father in all this? He's ok with it?

I think rrich is over 18 - my take/guess is early 20's but I could be wrong. I was just using my son as an "example." My son doesn't have enough experience. Actually, when I was 25, being honest with myself, I didn't either (thinking back). My point is that there's plenty of fun to be had in a car like this without taking unnecessary risks. Learn to drive well, and give yourself time to be ready to handle the kind of power that these machines can put down. There are plenty of stories of disasters when you mix lack of experience with loads of horsepower (not trying to troll here, just sayin').

And... then on top of all of that... especially if you're on a test drive with someone else's machine: even if you don't get hurt, you wouldn't want to end up wrecking it and having to either buy it or pay to have it fixed. Ugh. Not worth the risk.

-crds

 

[rrich49132]

I am 41 years old and have had many cars. I don't know any 20 somethings that could afford an E60 let alone the $10K a year they would pay for insurance.

I do track days on my 2009 ZX6R as a hobby during the warmer months as I am too old and experienced to drive crazy on the street as the risk is too much. If I ever wanted to really go hard would find a track day for the car and get it out and do it the right way.

 

[AngelSlayer]

I'm guessing that $10K/yr is an exaggeration? I'm closer to you in years and I pay about $900/yr. $10K seems way out there even for an 18 year old. But if that's true, wow, that's nuts.

 

[rrich49132]

I bet I am not that far off of $10K for an 18 year old. I ran my insurance and I would be at $1020/yr with an E60 and my 1999 Jeep Cherokee.

 

[AngelSlayer]

I bet I am not that far off of $10K for an 18 year old. I ran my insurance and I would be at $1020/yr with an E90 and my 1999 Jeep Cherokee.

You mean E60 right? Or do you have a 3 series as well? Wow, can't imagine that much for an 18 year old. If that's true, my kid's getting a beater until 25. I think the discount kicks after around 7 years? I forget.

 

[rrich49132]

Whoops yes E60 typo.

 

[crds]

I am 41 years old and have had many cars. I don't know any 20 somethings that could afford an E60 let alone the $10K a year they would pay for insurance.

I do track days on my 2009 ZX6R as a hobby during the warmer months as I am too old and experienced to drive crazy on the street as the risk is too much. If I ever wanted to really go hard would find a track day for the car and get it out and do it the right way.

rrich... no offense or disrespect intended. Was just trying to make sure that you weren't going to go out and hurt yourself. I hope you do find the car which lights your fire, as I did! We have had a few losses here on the board, including some younger drivers, and I would hate to think of anyone contributing to those statistics.

-crds

 

[rrich49132]

No offense taken. I really don't think I can go wrong with either one.

 

[messex]

I agree...

Have fun with whatever you pick. Both are great cars.

 

[Revo]

I don't see where he says he's 18 but if that is true then this is NOT the car for him. Start with a 545i or 550i, both are great cars and more suited for an 18 year old. Just because you have the means for an M5 doesn't mean you should get one, especially at 18. You don't need to your friends only to lose control and kill somebody as this car is most dangerous at high speeds.

And where is your father in all this? He's ok with it?

I was 18 when we bought our E60 and I'm almost 21 now. I think it takes a lot of responsibility and control to not drive like an idiot when you have access to a car like this but I hardly feel that this car should be banned from all young drivers. I've put the majority of the miles on our M5 (no joke, I've easily put 60%+ of the miles, you can ask either of my parents). I've driven in S6 plenty of times as well

The key here is knowing your limits. I never drive with DSC off above 100mph. I never have it off unless the ground is completely dry. I never weave through traffic and don't street race. I never speed excessively when other cars are present (I say excessively because standard driving here in SoCal means 5-15mph over the limit on a daily basis).

However, plenty of times have I performed the exhilarating 1st-3rd in S6 with rear tires spinning almost all the way through 2nd gear. I do this on a deserted back road with no one else present.

I don't think it's fair to immediately disqualify younger drivers. Yes our experience is a bit less but honestly how much of one's experience is taking the car to the limit (where experience really counts)? Most of this experience is driving the car well within the limits and doesn't afford much help in extreme situations.

If anything I will say that people in my age group make stupid choices (excessive speed in heavy traffic, racing, etc.) and that is what contributes to our poor safety statistics, not so much the experience. I know someone my age that has done 20x the amount of track days my dad has despite haing driven for far less period of time. Who would you put your money on as more experienced?

So in the end it's knowing your limits that matters. And I'm sorry but plenty of older drivers do not.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

I was 18 when we bought our E60 and I'm almost 21 now. I think it takes a lot of responsibility and control to not drive like an idiot when you have access to a car like this but I hardly feel that this car should be banned from all young drivers. I've put the majority of the miles on our M5 (no joke, I've easily put 60%+ of the miles, you can ask either of my parents). I've driven in S6 plenty of times as well

The key here is knowing your limits. I never drive with DSC off above 100mph. I never have it off unless the ground is completely dry. I never weave through traffic and don't street race. I never speed excessively when other cars are present (I say excessively because standard driving here in SoCal means 5-15mph over the limit on a daily basis).

However, plenty of times have I performed the exhilarating 1st-3rd in S6 with rear tires spinning almost all the way through 2nd gear. I do this on a deserted back road with no one else present.

I don't think it's fair to immediately disqualify younger drivers. Yes our experience is a bit less but honestly how much of one's experience is taking the car to the limit (where experience really counts)? Most of this experience is driving the car well within the limits and doesn't afford much help in extreme situations.

If anything I will say that people in my age group make stupid choices (excessive speed in heavy traffic, racing, etc.) and that is what contributes to our poor safety statistics, not so much the experience. I know someone my age that has done 20x the amount of track days my dad has despite haing driven for far less period of time. Who would you put your money on as more experienced?

So in the end it's knowing your limits that matters. And I'm sorry but plenty of older drivers do not.

Problem is most teenagers do not know their limits, and feel a sense of invincibility. You are the exception to the rule (of course) and young drivers get a bad rap. Throw in all the juvenile texting and it's 10x worse than it used to be. Fine, you are old enough and mature enough for this car, but 8 out of 10 of your buddies are not. The actions of most should dictate restrictions to all - this is why rules exist.

The majority of young drivers cannot and should not handle this car. Go back two years and read the article about the kid who split his father's M5 in half, as well as himself and 3 other passengers. Everyone was so sad and upset because look at what that selfish dolt of a driver did to his and 4 other families.