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Discussion Starter #1
What is the recommended timing chain replacement interval in the E39 M5? Is there any reason to do it more frequently?

Thanks.

Jeff :cheers:
 

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i don't think there is a replacement interval, unless the engine is remove for rebuilding. Then again, with the alusil cylinder bores, i don't think a rebuild is an option.
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #4
mottati said:
i don't think there is a replacement interval, unless the engine is remove for rebuilding. Then again, with the alusil cylinder bores, i don't think a rebuild is an option.
Mike
Thanks Mike. So one relies on the chain tensioner huh?

How about cam timing adjustment? Or is there such a thing in the E39 M5? Jeff :cheers:
 

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x703jko said:
How about cam timing adjustment? Or is there such a thing in the E39 M5? Jeff :cheers:
Should be taken care of by the vanos.
mike
 

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Discussion Starter #6
mottati said:
Should be taken care of by the vanos.
mike
Thanks Mike. Jeff cherrsagai
 

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And, apparently, that is my fate.

The engine's perfect. Just redid the rod bearings, though when I pulled them they were still perfect at 118,000 miles. Leak-down test is within 5% of factory on all cylinders. Engine's perfect mechanically...

EXCEPT--the f***ing Bank 1 VANOS won't pass the GT1 testing procedure, it reads at 70 degrees, tolerance for first test is 58-67 degrees.
Apparently, either my chain guides are too worn, or my chain has stretched.

Bavarian Machine Specialties is quoting $11,000 to replace the chain and all tensioners/guides.

What do you guys think? For a lousy 4 degrees, can I just remove a link from the chain?
Or, can I thread a new chain through, using the old chain to pull it?

Is there any other way than a brutal disassembly?
 

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$11,000 to replace chains and tensioners? That is a really steep price, a regular repair shop that is good at what they do should be able to do it for a few thousand at most.

I did enough work a week or so ago to where doing the chains would have been an hour or two extra work.



-R
 

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Thanks Tradin1.

Yes--I thought it was steep too.
I admit it looks like a fair bit of work--lots of dissassembly/reassembly, but not a rebuild.

Does anyone know a good shop in the Houston area that's more reasonable? And, by the way, competent to do this job properly?
 

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Before looking for that shop and commisioning the work, make sure its a chain problem you have. Most likely it isn't.

The S62 is a great bit of kit in terms of diagnosing problems as its essentially 2 4 cylinder engines, ergo, you can swap sensors etc over from one side to the other in order to hellp out with diagnostic work

You say it will not pass a vanos test on bank 1, but if so why does it pass on bank 2 as they utilise the same (supposedly slack) chain?

Cam timing should be infinitely adjustable through the slots in the cam sprocket, i don't see how this should stop anyone from setting the timing?

If the chain is so slack why are you not seeing any other symptoms such as rattling of the chain as the tensioner cannot take up the play in the chain?

What other codes are being thrown?

I will not say impossible, but i will say extremely unlikely. If solenoids and CPS are in good order on bank 1 then IMO as long as the vanos unit hasn't plugged up with a piece of filter or such - again easily serviceable for a good garage - then it should be a case of setting cam timing if its out and thats that
 

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Bavarian Machine Specialties is quoting $11,000 to replace the chain and all tensioners/guides.

What do you guys think? For a lousy 4 degrees, can I just remove a link from the chain?
Or, can I thread a new chain through, using the old chain to pull it?

Is there any other way than a brutal disassembly?
Considering the price of the parts and using $125 an hour for labor, that's over twice as much as it should cost. I'll bet even a dealer would quote you a much lower price than that!
 

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sometimes mechanics throw out ridiculous quotes when they dont want the job.
 

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Find another shop!!! I agree with the previous posts - that's an outrageous price. I have 111,000 on mine and just had the rod bearings replaced (for my peace of mind only, they were in good condition they told me), new timing chains, cogs, guides and tensioners, a new oil pan gasket, new motor mounts, and new belts and radiator hoses for $4863 at a BMW dealer in August with my 10% BMWCCA discount!! Next on my list are new tires in December. It drives like brand new and even the VANOS clatter has gone down. I think part of the noise may have been from the chains?
 

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WOW, I love this board! Thank you to everyone who's replied so far.

M5ForEver, which dealership? I'll DRIVE IT TO MISSOURI to get a price like that for all that work!

My rod bearings were fine too. I feel good about replacing them; but really all I got for the job was peace of mind, and probably eliminated the annoying ticking from chain-slap on the oil pump chain. Its tensioner and guide were really tired.

And @jamiepeers--I would imagine the slotted cam pulleys would give a good bit of adjustability in the timing, too. Certainly 4 degrees.

On another thread, someone suggested similarly to what you did; they said if Bank 1 fails, Bank 2 should fail, also...but it doesn't. He suggested simply servicing the solenoids--clean'em up, replace the o-rings, and re-solder the board.

Here's a question: I'm reasonably competent mechanically. I've rebuilt engines ground-up; admittedly two simple four-bangers with carbs, but I'm not a complete n00b. Given infinite time, can I do this myself without a GT1 computer? I see posts from Vantaam on it, but he seems more like a demi-god than mechanic so going without GT1 like him would be pretty heroic for me. I think.

Ideas?
 

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Please post your Vanos Test results (all pages) for further analysis.

But at 100K Miles its probably worth doing your timing chains and guides even if it not causing you to fail your vanos test.

What does your car sound like in the 0.5s to 1s after switching the engine off ? Doest it make any slight clattering noises (have your clutch fully depressed to remove any clutch/tranny noises removed from the equation).

Also have your dropped your oil sump or inspected engine oil for any plastic chain guide debris ?

As Jamie suggests, I'd also swap the Vanos solenoids and/or CPS Sensors bank to bank, to further investigate.

But again, bottom line is, if your M5 is a keeper, the timing chain and guides need to be replaced at your mileage, whatever connected or non connected issues you may be having. IMO.

Good Luck
 

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I posted in his other thread on the topic, as did several others.

He seems to be holding on to the diagnosis by his shop (I guess they are infallible) that it must be the chain.

We'd love to know if his VANOS and solenoids are in good shape. If they have never been serviced, I'd bet money this fix will be $100 or less.

A
 

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Sorry guys I started one thread and posted on another, and now I'm bouncing back and forth between them. I'm truly grateful for the eye-opening advice. Here's the other thread:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/210210-slack-timing-chain-bank-1-wont-pass-vanos-test.html

@ard: I'm un-fixating from the chains-and-guides explanation...until I know for sure the Bank 1 VANOS unit is in good shape.

I also want to know what the meaning of the first failing VANOS test is--what is the 70 degrees relative to, BTDC, ATDC, what? I'll search around to find the answer, and I'll post the test results here when I get them Tuesday.

I know for sure the VANOS hasn't been serviced--and from reading dozens of other threads on M5Board, it seems servicing them FIRST is the intelligent thing to do.

@M5 London: indeed, I dropped the sump when I did the rod bearings, and it was clean--no guide debris or plastic/metal pieces of any kind. Sparkly. Would you still replace the chain/guides? (After I figure out the VANOS situation)
 

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The VANOS mechanism is designed to rotate each cam 30 deg (which is equivalent to 60 deg of crankshaft rotation, the accepted measuring standard).

The VANOS mechanism for each cam is controlled by the two VANOS solenoids which apply or reduce oil pressure to the VANOS piston.

The GT1 test applies oil pressure to the two solenoids to fully advance and then fully retard each cam and to make sure the cam rotates 30 cam degrees, 60 crank degrees, plus or minus some tolerance.

In your case, the cam rotation exceeded the 58-67 degree tolerance. Since mechanically, this is unlikely for the reasons given above by jamiepeers, the most common reason is the CPS not reading the rotation for the cam correctly. So if the CPS's are original, it's time for a change.
 
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