BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
361 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone done this on an E39 M5? If so, do you feel it was beneficial?


For those unfamiliar, the throttle pedal was updated sometime around '01-02 for the non-M E39 and other BMW models, but the M5 only used the older design. (Correct me if I'm wrong on the changeover point and if anyone has an '03 feel free to confirm if it has the older version)

Old design = pedal and sensor are separate and connected by a linkage, sensor lives up under the dash.
New design = pedal and sensor are all combined in one unit on the floor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Never heard of this and it seems like a waist of time it was obviously not updated on the M5 for a reason probably because it’s not an upgrade.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Has anyone done this on an E39 M5? If so, do you feel it was beneficial?


For those unfamiliar, the throttle pedal was updated sometime around '01-02 for the non-M E39 and other BMW models, but the M5 only used the older design. (Correct me if I'm wrong on the changeover point and if anyone has an '03 feel free to confirm if it has the older version)

Old design = pedal and sensor are separate and connected by a linkage, sensor lives up under the dash.
New design = pedal and sensor are all combined in one unit on the floor.
What’s the benefit to this modification/change?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
361 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Never heard of this and it seems like a waist of time it was obviously not updated on the M5 for a reason probably because it’s not an upgrade.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If it wasn't an upgrade, why would BMW release it for production in the first place? I'm looking for feedback from people that have actually done this on an E39 M5 (if any), not assumptions from people who haven't.

What’s the benefit to this modification/change?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In the thread it's mentioned as being more responsive and smoother.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
183 Posts
If this did happen in 2001, is it possible this is due to the facelifting of the E39's including new engines and I think newer DME setups? Did the M52 pre-facelift cars use MS43? Did the 01-03's use MS45?

Just throwing out guesses here, its certainly something worth looking into I think, more throttle control is always appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,721 Posts
I have never seen this mod, but it makes a ton of sense, if for no other reason than ease of sensor replacement. Anyone who has had to replace the under dash sensor knows how long it takes and what a PITA it is. It also makes sense that the response would be a big quicker because of the lack of a linkage between pedal and sensor. The pedal/sensor combo is used on the E46 M3 and so responsive, it frequently is retained even in all out racecar builds. Ask me how I know!

--Peter
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
361 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
It does look like a pain to get the sensor out and if you're in there, maybe switching to the newer setup isn't such a bad idea. I also agree about the E46 M3. Easily one of the best electronic throttle setups I've felt.

If this did happen in 2001, is it possible this is due to the facelifting of the E39's including new engines and I think newer DME setups? Did the M52 pre-facelift cars use MS43? Did the 01-03's use MS45?

Just throwing out guesses here, its certainly something worth looking into I think, more throttle control is always appreciated.
If you are strictly referring to non-M E39s I think you may be right (MS43 & 45 are the DMEs, I assume? MSS52 on the M5). I think the pedal update was done on post 01 non-M E39s.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
183 Posts
If you are strictly referring to non-M E39s I think you may be right (MS43 & 45 are the DMEs, I assume? MSS52 on the M5). I think the pedal update was done on post 01 non-M E39s.
Yep! We're on the same page here. I haven't looked that close into the non M E39's but I know at least on the E46's when they facelifted the cars, they got new engines and new Bosch EFI systems.

I'll have to run this by my dealer tech friend who has a e39 m5 and multiple e46's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
282 Posts
Electrically the signals are the same between the pedal setups, and there are a few S62 swapped cars running around out there with the new style pedal. As for why the E39 M5 didn't get updated? It's hard to say. Might be as simple as BMW not wanting to build and stock two separate harnesses for the M5.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,929 Posts
Are you looking for more responsiveness? A lot of people have complained that from the factory, the tip in on the e39 M5 is too sensitive that results in bucking. I remember this happening when I first got my car and I had to adapt my style of easing into the throttle. All that was mitigated once I had a tune and I worked with the guy to set the throttle response the way I wanted it. I had him decrease the tip in sensitivity and make the throttle more linear across the board.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
282 Posts
Are you looking for more responsiveness? A lot of people have complained that from the factory, the tip in on the e39 M5 is too sensitive that results in bucking. I remember this happening when I first got my car and I had to adapt my style of easing into the throttle. All that was mitigated once I had a tune and I worked with the guy to set the throttle response the way I wanted it. I had him decrease the tip in sensitivity and make the throttle more linear across the board.
It very well could be that the new style pedals are simultaneously more responsive and less finicky. The new pedal uses hall effect (i.e contactless) sensors internally rather than the resistive sensors found in the E39 M5's pot. The resulting signal is probably less noisy and somewhat easier to modulate tip-in with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
361 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Yeah, it's just part of my never ending quest for smoother throttle tip-in I guess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
282 Posts
Yeah, it's just part of my never ending quest for smoother throttle tip-in I guess.
Might be worth a shot, looks super easy. I don't have an E39 M5, otherwise I'd try it myself.


Is there a guide for the more simple minded among us?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think that bimmerforums post is as close as you'll get for now until someone decides to take the plunge.


I like this idea plus going back to the stock tune. Rev matching was so much better with stock.
Flashing back to stock is pretty easy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Might be worth a shot, looks super easy. I don't have an E39 M5, otherwise I'd try it myself.



I think that bimmerforums post is as close as you'll get for now until someone decides to take the plunge.
That may well have to be me then, S62 swap happening on the weekend, just need to get a list of parts to harvest from a facelift car.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
282 Posts
In fact, if you want to build an adapter instead of cutting into the harness, I believe you can buy the following:

61138352322


61131376202 x 6


61138383300


61131393726 x 6


And however much wire you need. Probably don't even need to bother with different colors for each wire since it's just an adapter harness.

I think the pinout would be (from old -> new)
pin 1 -> pin 6
pin 2 -> pin 5
pin 4 -> pin 1
pin 5 -> pin 4
pin 6 -> pin 3
pin 8 -> pin 2

(pins 3 and 7 on the original harness are unpopulated and thus unused).

This is assuming the E39 M5's throttle pot pinout matches the E38 740i, since oddly enough the M5 wiring diagram shows the wiring for the new pedal which it never actually got. Would be nice to find non-BMW sources for all the parts too (well I do know of non-BMW sources for the connector and pins for the new style pedal... it's the old style connectors and pin that I don't know where to source otherwise).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
361 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I ordered the parts and will have some time over the holidays to work on this. I'll see if I can try to put a DIY together. If not, I'll at least report back with any tips and additional photos.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
282 Posts
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top