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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
I love this board and want to thank all of you for your comments!

Latest information below and in pics

The profile of the 25 tooth driven gear on the main shaft is near identical betweeen OEM/BMW, Metal gear, and Plastic gear.

All of my binding issues point to the brass gear, 13 tooth, not playing nice....even with its supplied mating gear.

It may be possible to "break in" the gears, but the brass gear will win. The problem is that all the research I have found when a code is thrown go back to the main shaft gear and teeth getting worn and/or pointed.

Still researching and thank you again for the support.

P-Chi
 

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Good luck with your trip.
Thank You for the effort put in this testing.

Obvious difference in the brass intermediate gear. If it binds I would mesh both gears and trim as required to get it smoother.
 

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Also while researching have discovered: It not just the gears! Could be the motor or electronics!

Doing a deep dive and would appreciate any knowledge that can be added to this post.

P-Chi
Hi @P-Chi , I wanted to comment on this observation you shared. One of the most trusted S65/S85 Throttle Actuator refurbishment operations, Rebuild.org.uk , has stated that in most cases it is the electronics -- not the gears -- even if the gears themselves are worn. They a complete refurb service, but in addition to that they sell a gear kit --- yet on the topic of the gear kit have remarked publicly that they still end up eventually receiving throttle actuators from some of those same kit customers, as the electronics almost always need to be replaced to restore 100% function reliably.

I have no affiliation with them, just happened to have replaced my TAs recently and did a lot of research on the subject.

Edit: Including this YouTube video on the Gear Kit, if you haven't seen it already.

BMW Throttle Actuator Repair - Gear kit - YouTube
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 · (Edited)
Hi @P-Chi , I wanted to comment on this observation you shared. One of the most trusted S65/S85 Throttle Actuator refurbishment operations, Rebuild.org.uk , has stated that in most cases it is the electronics -- not the gears -- even if the gears themselves are worn. They a complete refurb service, but in addition to that they sell a gear kit --- yet on the topic of the gear kit have remarked publicly that they still end up eventually receiving throttle actuators from some of those same kit customers, as the electronics almost always need to be replaced to restore 100% function reliably.

I have no affiliation with them, just happened to have replaced my TAs recently and did a lot of research on the subject.

Edit: Including this YouTube video on the Gear Kit, if you haven't seen it already.

BMW Throttle Actuator Repair - Gear kit - YouTube
Hello Highlandair,

Thank you for joining and my research is pointing at MIL/Check engine from electronics, not mechanical gears.

That being stated, still chasing the best gear solution....Frankenstein metal and plastic gear sets? Or go the extra mile and use full plastic with cross-pin and add adhesive? Electronics may fix some, but there is still a gear wear issue that should be addressed before putting the assembly back in service.

Cheers,
P-Chi
 

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Sure the electronics has major role here. what I understood is that the worn out gears stress out the electronics and eventually fail. When any one purchase the car it is better to replace the worn out gears before the electronics die then a replacement is required from one of the rebuilders.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Hello platii,

I like your thinking for preventive maintenance, especially since I am rebuilding complete engines!

Have you tried the "metal" or "plastic" gear kits? Is there another option? I would love to learn more and this is the place to share knowledge.

Q to all: Any advise on bench testing complete Throttle Acttuator Modules? My only option is to test several module when I have my car down for servicing. Other options would be nice!

P-Chi
 

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Have you tried the "metal" or "plastic" gear kits? Is there another option?
Not at this point but I ordered the metal gear set, I will share my findings when the time comes.
Q to all: Any advise on bench testing complete Throttle Acttuator Modules? My only option is to test several module when I have my car down for servicing. Other options would be nice!
I have seen a agood contribution from a member @rt7085 that spent sometime on bench testing the throttle actuator, what I observed it is a hard task at the end. So I think testing the module for just operation wise doesn't require a bench setup, I think installing them on the car and run ISTA or INPA test is enough.
Check out his work.
Other contribution here:

I think what is important is to install proper gear set (Mechanical), circuit board job which includes the MOSFET's and possible other related electronics parts, ABDUL from Mpowermotorsport mentioned that there are other component to be addressed when refreshing the electronics, but these component may not be necessary at some point, may be it is related to their life time guarantee and to prevent future failure, this requires an electronic specialist to test and repair the board (Electronics), and lastly the motor, never seen any one mentioned anything about the motor failure or if there is a way to refresh the motor (Electrical).
That's all about the throttle actuator module.
 

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What I really want is someone to experiment the Idle actuator and if there is a fix or develop replacement parts, almost zero effort has been published. I think it is more complicated than the throttle actuator. It's price is way expensive but there are Airtex 2H1510 after market alternative to check out.
 

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I think what is important is to install proper gear set (Mechanical), circuit board job which includes the MOSFET's and possible other related electronics parts, ABDUL from Mpowermotorsport mentioned that there are other component to be addressed when refreshing the electronics, but these component may not be necessary at some point, may be it is related to their life time guarantee and to prevent future failure, this requires an electronic specialist to test and repair the board (Electronics), and lastly the motor, never seen any one mentioned anything about the motor failure or if there is a way to refresh the motor (Electrical).
That's all about the throttle actuator module.
I agree with you and @P-Chi the gears definitely wear and need to be addressed. It's a multivariable problem when we are talking long term failure. The Rebuild.org.uk that I linked earlier is actually the source for Abdul at MPowermotorsport. Abdul is a distributor for the Americas, if I recall correctly. From my research the stock MOSFETS don't tolerate heat well and just don't last, that is why these rebuild outfits replace those and other electronic elements with 'beefier' components as part of the refurb.

Or you can buy stock ones from FCP Euro and use their lifetime guarantee exchange when they fail.

Coming back to @P-Chi tackling the gears though, it's very possible you could replace them and then get another 20K+ on the odo out of your TA electronics. Or they could fail in that area in two weeks. I think for the DIY who doesn't mind the time and labor to reach the TAs, only replacing what is necessary is fine --- but for the enthusiast paying an indy shop (or heaven forbid the dealer) the labor to replace them then might as well knock it all out at once.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 · (Edited)
What I really want is someone to experiment the Idle actuator and if there is a fix or develop replacement parts, almost zero effort has been published. I think it is more complicated than the throttle actuator. It's price is way expensive but there are Airtex 2H1510 after market alternative to check out.
Hello Plati,

Next on my list is the IAC's or Idle control units. They are harder to work on and will require a "dust cap" to fully reassemble.

I have a bad unit and will strip it and post pics of findings.

It will be a new post or adding if someone else has a post within the past few years.

Cheers,
P-Chi.
 

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Nice, I have seen the internals once.
Same principle as the throttle actuator, shaft/butterfly/drive gear, intermediate gear, electronics board, and a motor.
I think the failure starts also with gears wear. I know the IAC in my car is on the way out, they sometimes fail ramp 2 test and that possible linked to gears wear. Do you see a significant wear on the gear teeth?. That actuator possibly failed because of water ingress and may not show wear on the teeth. What is the symptoms of the failure, what was ISTA test result, or was it completely dead?.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Nice, I have seen the internals once.
Same principle as the throttle actuator, shaft/butterfly/drive gear, intermediate gear, electronics board, and a motor.
I think the failure starts also with gears wear. I know the IAC in my car is on the way out, they sometimes fail ramp 2 test and that possible linked to gears wear. Do you see a significant wear on the gear teeth?. That actuator possibly failed because of water ingress and may not show wear on the teeth. What is the symptoms of the failure, what was ISTA test result, or was it completely dead?.
Hello platil,

Love you feedback and ideas. This IAC is from an engine that must have been stored outside and hence the water intrusion. You would not beleive the amount of water/oil/coolant and other I found even in the cylinders!

Great news is I can pull this unit apart without fear of damage.

Please start a post for IAC's and I will add. Not quite ready on my side to start, do not have enough information and background.

Also want to keep this post clean for Throttle Actuators without getting too far off topic.

Cheers,
P-Chi
 

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Yeah I was going to say "you can reply to my post in a dedicated thread for IAC".

These modules require special knowledge in electronics which is not my specialty and also I live in an area that lack of private professionals that I can rely on and to manage the repair with the help of their experience.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
M5 Board,

New post started for IAC's. All information, pics, experience welcome. I will add as I go into detail on these modules.

Search:
S85 Idle Air Control Modules NOV-2021


Cheers,
P-Chi
 

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Don't want to dump on you, but gears do nothing. I went through this earlier this year on my 2006 M5. Also I highly recommend that your order new factory actuators. Any other and you may still get errors.
Gears fix it just fine if you haven't burned out the electronics. I had terrible throttle quality and its great after gears. Now is it fix for everyone? Probably not, but it's so cheap why not try it before wasting money?
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Don't want to dump on you, but gears do nothing. I went through this earlier this year on my 2006 M5. Also I highly recommend that your order new factory actuators. Any other and you may still get errors.
Hello John,

Comment not received as dumping....I think all interested persons in such an obscure post want input from everyone with experience. The more data the better!

Also researching motor failures and understand that they do happen. The gears are an issue, but is that what caused motor or assembly to fail? Also electronic circuit board components and leaking o-ring seal. Need more comments/data, not all failures require full replacement.

Thank you for responding!

P-Chi
 

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I thought the consensus was mostly that worn gears cause undo stress on the board, which overtime causes board failure. And by that time, swapping gears won’t fully fix it. So the gear swap is best done as preventative maintenance. Have we moved on from this? Good conversation all around, glad to see issues being revisited to try and improve the understanding. That’s how we keep these cars on the road.
 

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What I would like to see is a TA test with INPA on a failed actuator.

When I did my gears my TA's were fine so it was a PM. My TA tests with INPA look good of course.

An SMG car has a lot more going on for the TA's than a manual car does. M Power Motorsports is the way to go for a failure.
 
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