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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all. Had my beast for over a year now but probably this is the first post I am making (recently got permission to post) so I shall dig right in.

I shall first go over the mods that were already on the car when I bought it: 1) supersprint headers (catless), hartge accelerator booster, K&N typhoons.

Mods that I did : secondary cat delete.

So now my beast was catless and the smell of fuel in the cabin nearly killed me (this is later solved, read on.)

Now once I had gotten it it threw a bunch of codes mainly misfiring with cylinder cut-off on almost all the cylinders but these were cleared,
2B35: Misfire with cutoff cycl 1
2B36: Misfire with cutoff cycl 2
2B37: Misfire with cutoff cycl 3
2B38: Misfire with cutoff cycl 4
2B39: Misfire with cutoff cycl 5
2B41 : Misfire with multiple cylin..... etc etc you get the idea

Got a new clutch for the monster and did the SMG adaptation procedures and what not (Transmission no ISSUES.. knock on WOOD). The car ran fine for 2-3 months and then BAM!! MISFIRES on a whole another level.... my Vanos inlet and outlet gears were out of order. So like any good m5 owner I gave it the utmost attention got it changed pronto, and the car was as good as new no codes (well the oxygen codes kept popping up, but I figured I have no cats so maybe that is the case)

Took the car out and while testing in M-mode in 3rd and 4th gears specifically it threw the CEL (**REDUCED ENGINE POWER.... :( ). Guessed maybe the coil packs are bad changed them along with a new ionic sensor (on one bank) it seemed fine, but BEHOLD the fumes you had read about previously still there. The garage I am learning to work on cars (YES I am new to the automobile scene but we all start somewhere) nearly chocked on the vapors and had to take precautions to not suffocate. Now at this point I thought to myself that being catless this was a normal occurrence to but now come in the O2 sensor codes... so I swapped the 02 sensors and LO! my idle had dropped and the gas smell was next to normal!

Now the engineer who I am currently learning all these great things from the vehicular dreams world took the car again for a test and it starts misfiring again as to no apparent reason, so now we are stuck again back to square one. I have scorched the forums for all possible leads and like any great detective we all start from the crime scene the codes will be read tomorrow to see what we got now.

And then come my questions :0
1) Being catless would definitely require a tune? The closed loop control in the M5 or any other car for the matter reads the lambda values from the pre-cat sensors (which I have in place) and adjusts AFR accordingly and the post-cat O2 sensors are more for the outer-loop-control to fine tune the AFR. Having no cats at all without a tune could be attributing to these faults? Maybe?? Possibly??? Definitely????

*** the funny thing is that once the new O2 sensors were placed the idle jus dropped and the intoxicating fumes were gone! :s


2) The spark plugs were blacked out but they were recently changed. We figured since the car ran rich all this time maybe they just fouled it could they be the culprit? (checked the sparks too they are find but a recommended change)

3) I had a doubt on these stupid k&n s but the MAF readings were normal ......

4) Maybe it is a glitch in the M5 MATRIX? (DME-issues)?

5) Checked the valves/valve springs all in order...

6) Fuel injectors cleaned

7) Bad fuel (hmmmm I knew I shouldnt have put gas in from the stupid gas station , but I live in Qatar so gas is almost uniform all over but you never know)

NOW what you ask well I want to know from all the ESTEEMED members of this brotherhood to help another brother out. Though I have not dirven my car properly for the past 4 months the learning experience I have is worth it (Wish I can say the same for the money I spent lool). The thing is I believe in the experience rather than the finances ( I know need to grow up, but I aint married my only wife is my baby M5).

So if you all could help me narrow down the ifs and buts I would greatly appreciate it and now that I can post well I will keep you updated on a DAILY :)
 
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If the car already had super sprint headers then this issue should have been there already without a tune. You probably have a tune.

Definitely need a tune when primaries are removed. Secondaries just mitigate the smell a bit but they do not 'really' play a role in lambda (AFR) control. Get a tune or verify whether it had one already. Definitely will get a CEL without it and the car won't run right.

Black sparks can be a result of running very rich. Check this out:

http://bustekhub.com/index.php/2016/08/16/spark-plugs-101/
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If the car already had super sprint headers then this issue should have been there already without a tune. You probably have a tune.

Definitely need a tune when primaries are removed. Secondaries just mitigate the smell a bit but they do not 'really' play a role in lambda (AFR) control. Get a tune or verify whether it had one already. Definitely will get a CEL without it and the car won't run right.

Black sparks can be a result of running very rich. Check this out:

Spark Plugs 101 ? BusTekHub
Thank you very much for the insight I have the info printed and on my wall for reference now! Just a quick update... the cylinder misfires are back this time from cylinder 1 through 5 (1,2,3,4,5)

YES!! Ionic module wil be swapped tomorrow had to leave today but will begin it tomorrow!

Also there seems to be a power loss in M mode in 3rd and 4th gear that I forgot to mention before.. happens only in M mode tho

The car runs horribly now we are back to the gas vapor smell (not the same as before though)

I am preparing a list of all item to go through one by one... Back to basics.

Started of with the ignition part will also check the fuel and compression/timing check list.

I was wondering what it can be to many ifs and buts! Also the codes generated were same as above P00... codes. More updates to follow
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
DAY 3

So today scanned the beast and had an array of errors but was moving the different coils and spark plugs etc etc... It ran like crap anyways cleared the codes and read the car again and now misfire codes for cyl 4,5,6,8,9 So will change out the coils with new ones along with the spark plugs.

When removing the spark from cylinder 5 we found it was wet and suspecting the misfire for the cause ... more updates to follow

Also the rich running condition might be due to the tune (or the lack of it) thinking of getting the Fast Attack Motorsports tune let us see first to solve this misfire isse....
 

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Any vanos system codes? When was the last time the fuel filter was replaced? Change engine oil and examine filter thoroughly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I would do a compression test just to make sure first.
Hey Bucky thanks for your constant help brother <3 haha. Well I did a valve leak test for 8 of the cylinder Cyl 5 and 10 were hard (Its my first time doing this I am still learning) but the 8 cylinders I tested were within tolerance levels wrote the values down somewhere but they werent far apart. The tool I have no does not fit in the tiny space above cyl 5 and 10 and the wet spark plug was found on cyl 5 so waiting for a friend to borrow his more flexible compression test tool.

As for the injectors I had given then to Bosch for a refurb and any fault would have been reported but came back A ok (But will check the report they gave just to make sure)

New sparks are coming in and new coils too and did I mention already changed one ionic module from the first bad site this splitting of misfires is driving me crazy.

I have to first do a compression test to rule out 5 and 10 and then replace all the nice little spark plugs and coils and then go from there. But MAN DOES MY CAR SMELL LIKE FUEL its unbearable its like the injectors are bloody stuck open and car is just dumping out fuel.

Anyways I was searching around the board and came across an interesting post about charcoal filter also causing misfires due to vacuum creation but will have rule out ignition components before moving to fuel components. Guess we will have to wait.

On top of that I have a mini cooper s JCW with a coolant loss so guess what the head is off , but honestly IDC about it I want my BEAST BACK :crying:crying:crying:crying:crying:crying:crying:crying:crying:crying:crying:crying:crying:crying:crying:crying:crying:crying:crying:crying
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I would do a compression test just to make sure first.
Any vanos system codes? When was the last time the fuel filter was replaced? Change engine oil and examine filter thoroughly.
Hey Esteban. Brother I have no Vanos related codes, pressure is at 80 BAR.. recently changed the inlet and outlet gears and set the timing. Right after this car ran fine with no codes and then BAM LIMP MODE ON and MY HAPPINESS GONE. (It was still running RICH AS HELL---fuel smell that could kill if the windows are open)

But as said like any good detective I am letting the codes guide me to the problem and not going crazy part swapping.

When I got the car there were exhaust leaks as well in the pipes (where the secondary cats were removed) Could this cause a problem by sucking in air? Curious (and a noob)
 

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Hmm odd. What about fueling? Have you checked/replaced anything related to?

Exhaust leaks won't cause any issues post oxygen sensors, anything pre can cause either fuel trim errors or catalytic converter code depending where the leak is.
 

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I would double check your injectors, it depends how they were tested.
If the test was just a flow test at 100% duty its not going to show a bad injector.

This is a really bad injector of mine when it went bad. Car ran like sh1t and white smoke out of the exhaust, mis-fires and cylinder shut down on all cylinders.

https://youtu.be/CjzGjo8Bvp4
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Day 4..

I would double check your injectors, it depends how they were tested.
If the test was just a flow test at 100% duty its not going to show a bad injector.

This is a really bad injector of mine when it went bad. Car ran like sh1t and white smoke out of the exhaust, mis-fires and cylinder shut down on all cylinders.

https://youtu.be/CjzGjo8Bvp4
Hello Bucky! brother this is some serious stuff.. I should check them out tomorrow or Saturday time permits. Correct me if im worng I take them of from the plenum and just hit the ingition and the fuel pump should prime the rail any faulty injector will start oozing or spraying (right??). Defo will give this a shot. What do you think about the carbon filter theory where vacuum is created and misfire codes and fuel mixture is affected? Thoughts...

Hmm odd. What about fueling? Have you checked/replaced anything related to?

Exhaust leaks won't cause any issues post oxygen sensors, anything pre can cause either fuel trim errors or catalytic converter code depending where the leak is.
Hey brother Esteban nothing so far with the fueling components will rule out ignition components before moving next. I have ordered Tiger patch for exhaust sealing I shall seal the whole thing like no other. Its weird tho because you see with the de-catted headers the 02 sensors are sitting in a weird position way down but when checking by hand (when the car was on lift) I could feel no leaks. I have attached the picture of the set-up. I had doubts before maybe that the header connection could be the culprit for the leak but it was not the case.
 

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Yes just take them out from the inlet/throttle bodies. Turn the ignition on and off to build up pressure, try and start the car and video the injectors, you will see them pulse and it will give you and idea. Use a light coloured cloth like I did and it should help.

Carbon filter thing sounds like BS to me.
 

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I would definitely change the injectors, just for the heck of it, they are not that expensive anyway. Check Spareto, they deliver using DHL I think and it should be fast to Qatar, in like 5-6 days.
https://spareto.com/products/0-280-158-036-injector

and regarding the charcoal filter, if I remember correctly, the charcoal filter was only fitted in US-spec cars, which I don't think is the case with your car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I would definitely change the injectors, just for the heck of it, they are not that expensive anyway. Check Spareto, they deliver using DHL I think and it should be fast to Qatar, in like 5-6 days.
https://spareto.com/products/0-280-158-036-injector

and regarding the charcoal filter, if I remember correctly, the charcoal filter was only fitted in US-spec cars, which I don't think is the case with your car.
Salam Seif wallah jazakallh kheir brother. Will get em swapped placed them on order will be here by next week.

Cant wait !

Also this FAMS tune do you guys know about it man some serious numbers on that tune! Recommended??

I will also post some pictures on where I am working on the beast you guys have to see it to believe it! SLR Mclaren is my cars neighbour haha Id love to share and thanks for the inputs guys! This support system is amazing ///M brotherhood <3
 

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No problem man :)
And regarding the FAMS tune, I don't have it yet, but have heard nothing but great reviews about it, all the people that got it are saying that it is the best, hands down, some people even swapped from other tuners and they said that it is like day and night difference.

I am mainly planning on getting it for the smoother SMG shifts and an added HP wouldn't be bad as well haha.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
DAY 5,6 more or less

Updates guys!

So all my parts (Injectors, Coils, Sparks) shall arrive next week. Now if by changing these components the beast jumps to its feet I will be the happiest man alive! If not then move on to other components :( (GOD PLEASE HAVE MERCY ON ME)

So my brother bucky told me about the injectors getting messed up but isnt there any diagnostics (error codes) for this ordeal? I mean the fact that the injectors were sent to be cleaned and checked doesn't actually insure that they are in a working order is a bit of a concern :s (but bought new ones ayways- Bimmerzone had an offer all 10 for $300 over here in Qatar they 100$ a pop lool {thanks brother Seif too}).

Anyways I come to think of worst case scenarios in my head so what are the tell tale signs of failing components such as cam springs or bent valves anyone care to educate this new learner.

Also as promised attached a few images of my beast with her little sister (my mini JCW- changing the head gasket [also learning - but on mini forums lool) and some other toys.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
DAY 7

Hi brothers.

SO a quick update still waiting in on parts. On digging in the forum found that misfires are common problem even when the rod bearings are on their way out. We have no blackstone labs here to do an analysis so nothing more to do than guessing.

Is the rod bearing job very intensive?

I have seen some threads but I am a little bit wary of biting more than I can chew?!

Thoughts ... Suggestions

FYI there are no knocking noises but misfires are a cause for concern.
 

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Would it have been rod bearings then both side would have misfires. The VANOS pressure line is common. Misfires happen because the VANOS actuators would be clogged with copper swarf. But that is not the case. Now what could be the case is that your VANOS pressure is marginal. And bank 1 is the first to show the signs. And if this is the case, it is likely the internal pressure line from the VANOS pump. Measure the pressure and know what is going on.
 

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I wouldn't jump into conclusions, but if I were you, don't try to start the car until you get the stuff that are primarily suspected to be the cause of the misfire, replace them, clear the codes and start the car, and then measure the pressure like rt7085 suggested.
 
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