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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
You might remember that I collected my 2008 M6 on friday, I love this car its fantastic. the fuel economy is much better than i'd expected and the practicality is way better than i'd hoped.

all the fun started on monday, I was going to vegas for a night with my family, me the wife a 2 year old and a 2 month old and I decided to try to fit everything in the new car, I was not really expecting to get it all in there but this car is deceptive, to get all of us and the required supplies and toys for a night away in a car like this is really incredible to me. I was really enjoying the drive, the car is a very impressive gt car, we'd gotten a late start and managed to average 90mph and 17.5 mpg on the 270 miles there in one go in comfort again all very impressive.

now we had one issue on the way there, the engine check light came on 80% of the way through the journey, the display read misfire and reduced power, I could feel the miss for about 15 seconds then all was fine accept the reduced power, I pulled over for a second restarted the car and all was well.

That was until I pulled onto the strip in vegas, all of a sudden the misfire is back and its bad, now its showing the other classic, emission control warning. the misfire is terrible now, so bad that we have white smoke and an awesome raw fuel smell, I pulled into the hotel and shut it down.

I left the car to cool figuring that if its the coil packs then a cool down might help, but it does not, that night I called murrieta bmw, where I got the car, and the manager told me to call the warranty company then let him know what they said, I was quite happy to do this because when I spoke to him I said I have the warranty so lets use it.

The warranty company will deal with the issue but they have to deal with it at the nearest dealer, they will also pay for a rental car for 5 days and for hotel costs while waiting for the repair, i'm not that interested in staying in vegas with the kids for 5 days and i suspect it will take longer than that for the repairs anyway.

Now i speak to murrieta and they tell me take it to the local dealer and see what they say, they also tell me that they will cover any expenses that arise because of this break down. I'm only 4 miles from bmw of LV so I figure let me see if I can limp this car there but it won't start, its not because of the misfire but because the starter has decided it no longer wants to engage the ring gear, I can here it spinning but the engine is not!!!!

This is really getting fun now, so I have the car recovered to BMW of LV and leave it there over night, I head home to LA the next morning and let BMW of Murrieta know that they will need to have the car brought back to LA, either fixed or to be fixed, they are cool with this which is nice.


So the latest is that the starter is shot and since its in the transmission BMW of LV want to charge Murrieta $2700 for the repair just on the starter, Isaac the service manager told me this is almost all labor so they are paying to have the car recovered to them and they will fix it and that with the warranty I have the dealer is responsible for the first 30 days anyway.

BMW of Murietta have been great, I was put with upper management almost immediately which is both a blessing and a curse since they are good at handling the issue but also tough to get hold of, they have offered me anything I want, the offered me rental cars full reimbursement or they will give me a bmw loaner but I have a spare car so i'm not worried, I have just spoken with Isaac and asked him to price out a clutch since the transmission will be out anyway so hopefully something good comes out of all of this.




At the end of all this I still absolutely love the car and i'm very happy with the dealer hopefully within 2 weeks all will be well and I can get driving again, I wll let you know how it all goes as the story continues!!!!

Kim
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Thanks guys,

Mark just sent me the kindest pm I have ever received, i'm am absolutely an evolve customer going forward, he seems to conduct himself exactly as I strive to.

I had to send you an email Mark because I don't have the 45 post count

Thanks again

Kim
 

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Ok, call me the skeptic...how does a bad starter cause a misfire and limp mode exactly?

Please ask for the alphanumeric error codes before you authorize them to do anything. Yes, the starter on the S85 is a PITA to replace since the transmission essentially has to be lowered out of the way, but I can do that in 4 hours in my garage on jackstands. Make sure if the starter is actually bad, they aren't completely removing the transmission to get to it. It only has to be pivoted down to get to the starter bolts.

Again though, what caused the misfire? I can promise the starter had nothing to do with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ok, call me the skeptic...how does a bad starter cause a misfire and limp mode exactly?

Please ask for the alphanumeric error codes before you authorize them to do anything. Yes, the starter on the S85 is a PITA to replace since the transmission essentially has to be lowered out of the way, but I can do that in 4 hours in my garage on jackstands. Make sure if the starter is actually bad, they aren't completely removing the transmission to get to it. It only has to be pivoted down to get to the starter bolts.

Again though, what caused the misfire? I can promise the starter had nothing to do with it.

It's the other way around, misfire made the car difficult to start and attempting to start the car caused an obviously tired starter to finally give up. They, like all dealers price off book quoted hours and no doubt the book states that the transmission has to be removed so that's the price although i'm sure they would just drop the trans a little to do the job

thanks

Kim
 

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It's the other way around, misfire made the car difficult to start and attempting to start the car caused an obviously tired starter to finally give up. They, like all dealers price off book quoted hours and no doubt the book states that the transmission has to be removed so that's the price although i'm sure they would just drop the trans a little to do the job

thanks

Kim
Did the determine the cause of the misfire? My experience with a sudden misfire occurring while driving resulted in a hydrolocked engine and a failed starter as a result, hence my concern.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-touring-discussion/313026-boom-goes-dynamite-stuck-open-injector-hydro-locked-s85.html

My concern is that the starter isn't all that is bad and continually cranking the engine over can cause further damage. If you have a failed injector, the fuel can wash the oil of the cylinder walls and result in scoring the cylinder walls. I was *extremely* lucky on mine.

At a minimum, they should give you the codes so you can do a little research on your own.

Also, TIS specifies to pivot the transmission, not remove it. Dealers choosing to remove the transmission are milking the warranty company for extra money in labor.

BMW Workshop Manuals > 5 Series E60 M5 (S85) SAL > 2 Repair Instructions > 12 Engine Electrical System (S85) > 41 Starter With Mounting > 1 RA Removing And Installing_replacing Starter Motor (S85)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Did the determine the cause of the misfire? My experience with a sudden misfire occurring while driving resulted in a hydrolocked engine and a failed starter as a result, hence my concern.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e6...ite-stuck-open-injector-hydro-locked-s85.html

My concern is that the starter isn't all that is bad and continually cranking the engine over can cause further damage. If you have a failed injector, the fuel can wash the oil of the cylinder walls and result in scoring the cylinder walls. I was *extremely* lucky on mine.

At a minimum, they should give you the codes so you can do a little research on your own.

Also, TIS specifies to pivot the transmission, not remove it. Dealers choosing to remove the transmission are milking the warranty company for extra money in labor.

BMW Workshop Manuals > 5 Series E60 M5 (S85) SAL > 2 Repair Instructions > 12 Engine Electrical System (S85) > 41 Starter With Mounting > 1 RA Removing And Installing_replacing Starter Motor (S85)


Thats good info, they haven't determined anything yet because the dealer in vegas wanted to change the starter first then do the diagnostics, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the motor is hydro locked fortunately it was shut off within 30 seconds of the problem showing up, I was right by the hotel when all hell broke loose, So i'd be surprised if the bores are damaged.

the Vegas dealer was trying to charge my dealer 2700 for the starter replacement so the warranty company wasn't involved at that point but I also know from experience that all the aftermarket warranty companies ive used always have access to the workshop manuals so that they can make sure they don't get hosed on stuff like this, it sure seems like a lot of cash to replace a starter but I also don't know the cost of parts so who knows?!

my dealer told me that it would cost him $400 in labor to replace the starter which I would assume is a guess, I also assume its slightly inflated because everyone wants to play up their part a little so it sounds like he thinks it will take 6-7 hours but this is all conjecture right now as I have no idea
 

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I would be willing bet the starter is fine an just unable to compress an incompressible fluid.

If there are any errors associated with misfires and a low fuel pressure code, that's a good indicator. Hopefully they'll pull the intake plenum and take a look.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Ok cool, I would have thought that if the engine is hydro locked you wouldn't hear the starter turning, is there some kind of torque limiter to protect the starter in this situation or something?
 

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Just out of curiosity, what warranty do you have? I assume it is after market?
 

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Ok cool, I would have thought that if the engine is hydro locked you wouldn't hear the starter turning, is there some kind of torque limiter to protect the starter in this situation or something?
Nope, the Bendix clutch in the starter has positive tooth engagement. If the motor suddenly isn't turning over, I would be hard pressed to blame the starter. A new one won't have any more torque than the old one and won't turn it over either.

The injectors on this car have a history (albeit small) of failling and when they do, they fail open. I sent my remaining 9 off to be cleaned and performance tested and a second once failed there. Once I got them back and installed in the car, a third failed. This in hindsight seems a bit too coincidental and my fuel system may have been fouled, but concerning none the less.

Another cause could be debris in the oil pan. At a minimum, they should change the oil pan and oil filter. Cut the filter open and look for particles. Rod bearings and VANOS pumps can cause a lockup as well.a

Keeping fingers crossed for you.
 

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Wow, that sucks. Looks like there's a few of us who have had bad luck at the beginning of our M6 ownership. Hope everything goes smooth for you. I just got mine back with a new transmission on Wednesday and am finally getting to enjoy the car I bought :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
It is an aftermarket warranty with hendrick automotive.

Thats what I thought, so if the engine was locked you wouldn't hear the starter turning, right?!

yeah, it is what it is, if reliability was high on the priority list I wouldn't have picked this car, historically all M series vehicles are somewhat unreliable compared to regular cars and I pretty much expect it with something this highly strung. As much as it would be a lot better if the car just ran all the time I know it won't

on a side note, I used to sell cars back in England, I did so for quite a long time and it wasn't unusual that cars that I knew were great and reliable vehicles because I know their history and some of which I had driven for months while they were in stock and had proven to be very reliable would suddenly break down under new ownership sometimes with multiple issues. I know it sounds crazy but its almost like the car gets used to being handled a certain way and with a new owner anything that can break does, I wouldn't even mention this accept it happened a lot more than you would expect!!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
update guys, the vegas dealer and BMW usa cut my dealer a deal on price and a new starter was fitted and wouldn't you know it the engine is hydrolocked.

They are going to tear into it and look to see if we have any internal damage then we will go from there.

I will keep you guys updated as things progress

thanks

Kim
 

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Discussion Starter #16
News today is that they only had to replace one injector, I asked if they had checked for damage from bore washing and the technician told me that if there was a problem they would be able to see it through the computer but they have not opened the motor to look.

the car is on a transport from vegas hopefully to my house

thanks

Kim
 

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...the technician told me that if there was a problem they would be able to see it through the computer but they have not opened the motor to look...

Kim

This is absolutely untrue. I have the same software they do. I hate to say this, but it would be a miracle of that's the end of the problem. It's not impossible, but they really haven't shown due diligence in verifying the cylinders are free and clear.

Best of luck, I really hope the walls aren't scored. Very frustrating after two years of ownership, I can only imagine right after purchase.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Update: you won't believe this one

Ok so the car was ready for shipping on friday the 7th and I was told by bmw LV that they needed to get everything squared away with murrietta in order to release the car, fair enough it won't go anywhere until monday.

monday comes and goes and the car has not moved, i'm told by bmw of murrietta that they are trying to organize transport but they aren't sure if they will be able to collect it tuesday, long story short it does not get collected until thursday.


friday I called the shipping company to see where it is and was told that it won't arrive at my house until saturday morning because they hauler has to go by arizona first, no problem i wait.

saturday comes and I call and there is a delay and the hauler won't arrive at my home until saturday night, at this point whats the difference its been almost 3 weeks anyway.

I speak with the driver of the hauler and hes not going to be able to get up into my street so I agree to meet him on the large street that runs right by us.

I go outside and wait and see the hauler pull up but low and behold there is no white 2008 M6 coupe on board, there is however a 2014 M6 cab on board.

I speak to the driver and he tells me that he was a little concerned when he picked up because he didn't have a vin or description to go off he only had my name and the fact that its an M6, the brand new m6 on his trailer HAS MY NAME ON THE PAPERWORK!!!!!


clearly I didn't accept the car and when I call bmw LV the manager tells me that he remembered that a car hauler had shown up on friday night looking for a 2014 m6 and they could not find it and sent him away.


Just unbelievable that between these two very prestigious dealers we can't figure out getting the right car to the right place....the story continues
 

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WOW!! that is just crazy! Would be nice if that new M6 was really yours. Hopefully you get everything straitened out soon. If you need someone to investigate, I have a few friends that work at both dealerships here in Vegas.

Jace
 
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