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Topgear...


"The M5 is the Cray Supercomputer of cars, the Deep Blue of automobiles. It utilises more silicon than most small nations, and could beat my fatherin- law at Trivial Pursuit without breaking sweat, which is impossible. The new M5 is, according to the dictionary definition, awesome. It is, in no small terms, a miracle of the modern age of motorcars"

ETA 9 weeks...
 

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I am looking forward to few things as much as a real world E60 M5 write-up from a fellow board member. I am 18 months away from replacing my E39 M5 and, though I'm on the dealer list for the E60, I'm still undecided as to what I'm going to spend my money on. Whenever I look at the interior and exterior of the new 5 series I'm unconvinced that that style represents my style. I'm just hoping, really hoping, that driving the new M5 will make up my mind, and heart.

Derek
 

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Derek,

I hear ya, but I'm not convinced. I think it's time to move on to other companies doing better things, such as Audi. BMW got the E39 M5 right, but I think they've missed with the E60. I'll wait to make my closing arguments for when I see the car in the flesh, which I'm guessing is a year away.

Travis
 

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M5Kid said:
Derek,

I hear ya, but I'm not convinced. I think it's time to move on to other companies doing better things, such as Audi. BMW got the E39 M5 right, but I think they've missed with the E60. I'll wait to make my closing arguments for when I see the car in the flesh, which I'm guessing is a year away.

Travis
Travis, my esteemed colleague, I believe that the decision you ponder can only be made after actually driving the E60. You see, I've driven an RS6, and it's a great car, but it is lacking soul and the raw edge driving feel of my E39. (as does the E55)

If the E60 can deliver the heart and soul that M performance has always meant then I'll put on a pair of rose colored glasses and buy one. Frankly, if looks were all I were concerned with I'd buy a Quattroporte.

Derek
 

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Mardeth,

Well, it's hard to give the car a complete rundown at this time. But, from what I've seen, the interiour and exteriour styling is very ugly. The I-drive also is a large turn off. It seems this car has so many electronic aids, that although they may help with performance numbers, I feel will take away from the overall driving experience. There is a difference between being a good performing car, and an involving and exciting car. I feel that driver envolvment and raw driving feel may be lost with the E60.

I have no problem walking away from BMW and their new E60 M5. I love BMW's, but I'm not in love with them. If somebody else is making a superiour product, than they will receive my attention. Unfortunately, although their are a large number of good performance sedans on the market today, none of them seem to have everything the E39 M5 has, although some come close.

Travis
 

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I don't see holding up Audi as doing better things than BMW. Wanna talk about ugly, check out the front of the A6 and A4... At least the old gen, while a bit bland and everyday looking, at least didn't make me run away in horror.

Better than BMW? How about auto being the only option? How about understeer that can plow you into the next county? And my on my... the buttons on the dash... was there a special from the manufacturer?
 

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vndkshn,

Well, it looks like we have the opposite views on Audi and BMW. Styling is subjective, so it's not really worth arguing. I think the current generation Audi's are beautiful cars, although the new grill on the A4 and A6 is a little bit loud. Overall, I like the interiour and exteriour layout very much. What draws me to Audi is their clear headed designs. It is clear what their cars represent, and they are very good at this. All new BMW designs are incomplete and ugly, in my opinion. Wheres the all-wheel drive option for the 5 and 7?

You talk about understeer and lack of a manual gearbox? Check out the S4, and upcoming RS4. They both are and will be exciting and involving cars, with all-wheel drive, 4 doors, and manual gearbox's. I like the Audi's for what they are, and that is to say more of a laid back and luxurious car, with all season capabilities and great looks.

I dont want to get into the my thoughts on the E60 M5 now, because I have already stated the numerous times. Lets just say I doubt it will be the same balanced and pure car the E39 M5 is, not to mention the styling, I-drive, and barage of unnecessary electronics.

Travis
 

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I think a lot people has been making same comment regarding to how M car evolved in general. Most of the guys in E34 forum will tell you that E39 is too techy as well. I think most people will come to accept E60 will some portion that will want to stick to the old way.
 

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M5Kid said:
vndkshn,

Lets just say I doubt it will be the same balanced and pure car the E39 M5 is, not to mention the styling, I-drive, and barage of unnecessary electronics.

Travis
Well, I never tested this scientifically, but i'm betting the E39 is the most understeering of all M5s, including the E60.

Maybe KSA M5 can answer this, doesn't he have them all?

Is there any site where one can download the topgear video of the e60 m5?:haha:
 

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M5Kid said:
Wheres the all-wheel drive option for the 5 and 7?
Isn't X drive coming out for the 5 in the 06 models?

As for the S4 and RS4, I would not compare them to the M5 at all, but instead to the M3. I believe that the S6/RS6 is marketted as the competitor to the M5, not the 4s. In fact, where is the RS6 here in the states? Where is the manual trans S6 even?

Understeer? I looked at Audi's before buying my 02. Yes, understeer, measured by the ton. Oh, and I forgot to mention plenty of body lean. And why can't they make a shifter that feels accurate?

All in all, the Audi is a nice car. I would buy it hands down over the Mercedes. I find those to be couches on wheels. I liked the engine in the Audi alot. In fact, I would say I liked the engine in the A4 more than the 3L in the BMWs. For my tastes they did ride a bit too soft, and feel a little too disconnected.

And it is beginning to sound from reports that the E60 is much more car in terms of balance and purity than the E39 is. Not to mention the number of people that don't seem to have a problem with iDrive, and those that prefer it over the old interface. The same can be said about the styling.
 

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AWD is coming for the I6 engined 5 series. I believe its the X-Drive from the X3. I think they have a packaging issue with a V8 powered X-Drive.

I would very much welcome a X-Drive or AWD 7 series. But I am not so sure BMW needs this because I am a big BMW fan, and the absence of AWD did not keep me from the new 7. So they made the sale to me and did not have to add more weight and complexity to the car. Perhaps the question BMW would want to ask someone like me is: how much more would you be willing to pay for AWD in the 7. Im not so sure of the answer, but on a car like that, Id think 5k is the absolute maximum. Next question is does that make sense for them?

Btw- I have yet to drive an X Drive equipped vehicle, but I hear they are excellent.
 

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M5Kid said:
It seems this car has so many electronic aids, that although they may help with performance numbers, I feel will take away from the overall driving experience. There is a difference between being a good performing car, and an involving and exciting car. I feel that driver envolvment and raw driving feel may be lost with the E60.
Which luxury sports sedan does not have electronic aids these days? I don't see how any Audi can meet your requirements. Computer controlled Quattro AWD certainly takes away the driving experience of using your throttle to control the handlying dynamic of the car. So that leaves you with styling the only reason you are going with Audi.ouich
 

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António Duarte said:
Well, I never tested this scientifically, but i'm betting the E39 is the most understeering of all M5s, including the E60.

Maybe KSA M5 can answer this, doesn't he have them all?

Is there any site where one can download the topgear video of the e60 m5?:haha:
There's a difference. While the E39 M5 will momentum understeer, it is EASILY balanced with the throttle. Really, if you can make it dance, it's a hell of a drift machine.

The same can't be said for the RS6. The AWD will power understeer, always. And then you have the nose-heaviness. Add that up and you have an unflinching understeerer. Numb steering doesn't help.
 

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vndkshn,

I don't have a lot of experience with the driving dynamics of the Audi's, but I wouldn't buy them expecting the performance that BMW delivers in their M cars, I would buy them for a different reason. To me, the practicality of Quattro for Northwest winters, and the styling are great. In the end, the Audi's and BMW M's are different cars, both equally good in their own way.

As for the S4 and RS4, I never was comparing them to the M5, I don't know where you got that idea. You commented on the lack of excitment and sporty feel from the company, and I answered with two cars that come to mind.

And as for the E60 M5 and what other people say, well other people may have a different idea of what a good car is. For 90K I shouldn't haved to have the car grow on me, or sorta-kinda like some of the angles. I should love it from the minute I see it, similar to the E39 M5.

It's obvious we have different views on the new M5, which is fine, even great, and I think it's OK to leave it at that.

Travis
 

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dmz,

I'm not sure if you realized, but despite the fact that the Quattro takes away some excitement it's well worth it. In the Northwest, rain seems to be always present, and the Quattro would be great for that and snow. I love performance, but I would be willing to give some of that up for other positive traits in a car, such as great styling, Quattro practicality, etc. Like I said before, I like the Audi for a different reason. I'm not expecting the same thing out of it than an M5.

Travis
 
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