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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
In a response to a query about whether VF-Engineering intended to produce a supercharger for the V10, the following response was received:

The E60M5 is a car we had given very serious consideration towards for creating a supercharger product, however we could not justify the financial costs for creating the kit in respect to the size of the market.

As an idea, the R&D would cost $300,000 and take 6-9 months. This would yield a product that would raise power from 500hp to 675hp but would retail at $20,000 plus $3-4K for installation. In order for the project to have moved forward, we would need to sell a minimum of 50 units.

After discussion with several enthusiasts, we acertained that the above would probably not "appeal" to the M5/M6 owners. What do you think?

Nik


A second response was that if anyone wants to contact them, they should do so through Nik, as follows: [EMAIL="[email protected]"][email protected][/EMAIL]

My personal observation is that they make a very nice package for the e46 M3.

Rick
 

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Depending on what kind of S/C unit they go with 675 HP might not be all that great on this particular car.

The E60 M5 lacks low RPM torque. A centrifical supercharger like Vortec makes maximum power as RPM's increase which means you may only gain 25-30 hp below 5000k rpms and make 675hp at 8000k. So the sedan would be sluggish off the line or start but feel like a seemless pull up top.

Interesting cost approach though, I did notice the word "PLUS" jump out at me after the $20,000 :hihi:
 

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If the product was tested, reliable, and DYNO proven, I'd pony up 20K for 150+ HP!!!
 

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Alas I see this product concept going the way of the e39 M5 s/c product concept. :rolleyes:

Dave
 

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very interesting. I think 50 units would be easy to sell nation wide. Not too sure bout the $20k retail price though. Perhaps maybe sell 75 at $15k per unit! Now we are talking.
+1 and dont forget the international folks :applause:

everybody is talking about hp but lets not forget torque down under.
 

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I don't think its a good idea to make a 'cheap' supercharger for the S85.

It will bring tears.


And lets not forget, Dinan isn't exactly cheap but still a lot of guys get their stuff there.

The main problem with the S85 is that it,like the M88/S14/S38/S54 and unlike the S62, relies completely on vacuum and airspeed to get its 507hp. As soon as that's altered ( and you inevitably do so by charging) the engine HP will drop dramatically when vacuum is gone. So the supercharger doesn't only have to make that loss up, but ofcourse also add on top of the 507 stock hp. Which means more stress on the engine, which means more work on the internals.
 

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Well constructed, rock solid, well backed, and reasonably priced.
I'm starting to believe that this is a dream for this car. Give
me 650hp at 15-20k with all of the above and I'll buy 2. Unfortunately
I don't think this is going to happen. Tuners, please prove me wrong.
 

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Agreed... its not gonna happen. There is way too much R/D cost and risk for this price target.

D
 

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MTM seems to have been successful with their Supercharger Kits in the 20-25K price range with the V8 Audi cars (S4, RS4 and R8). They are not making 150+ HP but good power nonetheless on a high-revving motor. I know they put extensive R&D into their designs.

But two more cylinders on the S85 V10 would logically equate to MORE cost both component and R&D wise.

I know, I know... Audi and BMW, Apple and Oranges... don't shoot me, I own both an RS4 and M5, just trying to be fair!!!
 

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Guys i REALLY love your devotions to more is better. But like my best friend and I always say to each other "let's keep it real". For instance where on heck will we be able to unleash that amount of power on a suitable street? How long will we last before brain anurism (sorry for spelling) occurs...just kidding but seriously, that is a lot of power for a car that already has a dilema.....enough power. I hope someone does come out with a kit that is "affordable" and "reliable" so that I can see you power hungry man/woman be happy and enjoy the vids you put on youtube, but seriously, I am in love with my newly purchased M5 (2006 used and will have pics of all my toys shortly folks), but "let's keep it real" where on EARTH are you gonna be able to enjoy all the speed and power at the same time? Good luck bro's and please most of all be safe!:cheers::thumbsup:

P.S. I am also broke until I sell the E39 or I start donating organs or prostetution....you know the story
 

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Chris 550, unbelieveable, the "plus" refers to the labor costs. That's how I read that sentence. But I know it could never be as good as the Dinan horsepower. There is no bias here, right?

Things are happenning. ASR is working on the TT set up. Expect good things.
MTM has designed conversion for the high comporession (12.5:1) RS4. They use the Swedish made Lysholm Technology Twin Screw Compressor. Boosting at 5.8 psi. This a bolt on conversion with no engine internal changes or lowering the compression. This system develops 120 bhp and 96 lbs/ft torque. I have an RS4 so have followed this mod. The problem is the MTM wants $30K.

The VF supercharging system sounds good. If the numbers quoted are their numbers then this is more than possible to be developed. Selling 50 to 100 units in this country would be no sweat. Come on, I spent more than $20K to gain 52 rwhp in my M5.
That being said, who wouldn't spend $20K to gain 175 bhp.
The best thing to do now that we know what we do about these cars is this.
Get a new M5 or M6 and drive it for 2 to 3 months and enjoy it. Do not spend any money on it. Then go for the big mod. Do a Dinan stroker, or a SC or TT system when they are available out there.

The G-Power motor (hurricane) is outrageously expensive and to me untouchable. I have also heard some spotty things about the Hurricane motor.

Anyway I've said too much but the bottom line is, it is possible!!

M5Ranger
 

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As 550Chris mentioned, a supercharger might not integrate well with the V-10. The compression ratio would have to be reduced from 12:1 to ~9.5:1, which would erode low end performance, unless the aftermarket system was designed to provide max low end boost at the expense of high end power. As the engine wasn't designed for force-feeding, long term durability would be compromised.

As TransprterHell added, realistically where could you use the h.p., at least in the U.S.? I'd rather have an extra 175 ft-lb of torque @ 3,000 rpm.

At ~$24K installed, other vehicles designed with more power from the ground up become attractive, including the Nissan GT-R, which according to C&D is "cremating dynos with 480 horsepower at the wheels." http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1291417#post1291417
 

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Superchargers are excellent for low end torque, as they're driven by the crank, so there is immediate power. The M3 E46 had the same negative comments, but they turned out very impressive. Lots of power through the power band.
 

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Superchargers are excellent for low end torque, as they're driven by the crank, so there is immediate power. The M3 E46 had the same negative comments, but they turned out very impressive. Lots of power through the power band.
I agree that superchargers are generally good for low end torque, but actually consume a lot of h.p. at high rpm. The supercharged engine used by Jag consumes >100 h.p. at mid-high rpm.

The S85 engine in our Ms have too high a native compression ratio, and the alloys and internal parts were not designed to be force fed. Lowering the ratio would offset the power gain of force feeding, rebuilding with stronger parts is expensive and the block would still be vulnerable.

Yes, it can be done. IMO better to design from the ground up for force feeding, as with the new ZR-1 engine.
 
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