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Had a service appt yesterday morning which I should have rescheduled due to weather, but how bad could it be (I asked myself) if they're only predicting a dusting to 1" of snow, starting in the afternoon? Answer: very, very bad. Turned out to be more like 3" by the time I headed home, and it's been so cold lately that every flake stuck on road surfaces. I literally could not drive slow enough. At 15 mph, I had trouble going in a straight line on a flat road. Everyone else is flying by me. I have Michelin PS2s. Twice, I totally lost control going down very gentle grades near my house; fortunately, the car recovered before I hit anything. I should have know better. Next time, the car stays home.
 

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EdP said:
Had a service appt yesterday morning which I should have rescheduled due to weather, but how bad could it be (I asked myself) if they're only predicting a dusting to 1" of snow, starting in the afternoon? Answer: very, very bad. Turned out to be more like 3" by the time I headed home, and it's been so cold lately that every flake stuck on road surfaces. I literally could not drive slow enough. At 15 mph, I had trouble going in a straight line on a flat road. Everyone else is flying by me. I have Michelin PS2s. Twice, I totally lost control going down very gentle grades near my house; fortunately, the car recovered before I hit anything. I should have know better. Next time, the car stays home.
PS2s as well as the standard Pilot Sports suck in cold weather.

If you want to enjoy your beast in the winter, you'll have to use somekind of winter (snow) tire (on 17" wheels if possible). At the very least, switch to an "All Season" tire like the Pilot Sport All Season. That's what I do and I find that I can at least manage in snow up to 3". Anything thicker and I jump in my SUV instead.

:cheers:

Jeff
 

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Ashok Arora said:
I can attest to that
I was sorry to read about that a while back.

I usually drive our Chevy Suburban in any kind of bad weather. I never would have believed that the PS2s could be soooo bad in snow.
 

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while a winter beater is nice

a good set of snow tires do wonders for these cars


on my 540iT, I had similar experiences in the snow... put on a set of snow tires, and I can go places that some of the AWD can not go (assuming that they have summer tires on as well, with the all seasons, the AWD are OK)


4000 lbs and snow tires, no traction control,... the car is a force to be reconed with in the snow

usually i put them on after thanksgiving and place the summers on after march / april (east coast midatlantic)


it is all about the rubber on the road
 

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Yup, we got the big 1" last night but because of the cold ground, it was apparently worse than a foot of snow.

I left work and the snow was tapering off. I95 was fine. Went into the city to pick up my winter mats I ordered a fwe days ago. Got them just in time. But the roads in the city were not that great. Almost slid through a red light. Barely made it out of the dealership. Got back on to 95 which was just wet. Two more roads to my house - not bad so far. Pull into my neighborhood and the roads were bad. Turned into my driveway and ...uhhhh...couldn't make it into my garage. Backed up into the nighbors driveway to get a running start. Still 5ft. from the garage. Car spun. Car slid. Car went sideways. Tried this several times. No luck. I finally conceeded and shoveled the driveway and put some icemelt down.

I never got around to buying winter tires because it's so late in the season and this was the first snow, I figured I could tough it out. We'll see.

On a lighter note, this is the first snow my M5 has ever seen...as it was originally a Florida car. So far, she's been receptive to the climate change.
 

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All 3 of my (and my wifes') cars (and the 4th next week, the M5 - can't wait:M5launch:) have snow tyres on rims. It doesn't snow too much directly in Geneva but it snows often enough to be wary and of course, Geneva is surrounded by Mountains which I used for skiing at the weekends :byee55amg

Even on my 944 Turbo, it'll travel perfectly well in snow with the snow tyres (assuming sensible throttle obviously). Of course, if the snow gets too deep, either I imitate a snow plough or I drive backwards ouich

Apart from saving my bacon on a number of occasions, there is another issue we contend with. If you have an accident on snow covered roads in Geneva and you don't have snow tyres, the insurance company can refuse to pay citing negligence
I don't have first (or even second hand) knowledge of this being true but it's common knowledge among the Genevois ...

Regards,

Gary.


boostmiser said:
Yup, we got the big 1" last night but because of the cold ground, it was apparently worse than a foot of snow.
I left work and the snow was tapering off. I95 was fine. Went into the city to pick up my winter mats I ordered a fwe days ago. Got them just in time. But the roads in the city were not that great. Almost slid through a red light. Barely made it out of the dealership. Got back on to 95 which was just wet. Two more roads to my house - not bad so far. Pull into my neighborhood and the roads were bad. Turned into my driveway and ...uhhhh...couldn't make it into my garage. Backed up into the nighbors driveway to get a running start. Still 5ft. from the garage. Car spun. Car slid. Car went sideways. Tried this several times. No luck. I finally conceeded and shoveled the driveway and put some icemelt down.
I never got around to buying winter tires because it's so late in the season and this was the first snow, I figured I could tough it out. We'll see.
 

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EdP said:
I never would have believed that the PS2s could be soooo bad in snow.
Yep, all ultra-high performance summer tires are essentially worthless in snow/ice/very cold conditions. The tread compound on super high performance tires has to have a high glass transition temperature to provide the great levels of grip on dry roads and be able to withstand high local tread temperatures. Once the tread temperature approaches the glass transition temperature, the tread loses almost all of its hysteresis -- it becomes hard as a rock. Never trust such a tire in snow/ice conditions.
 

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Ed,
Yep- you took your car skiing- literally! What's important is no one got hurt. I had a similar experience with a 00 M5, the saving grace was I was heading into NYC where the slight temp difference turned the snow to rain. But while I was on the Hutch in the snow, I honestly felt scared.

Snow tires would transform the M5 into a quite useable vehicle, and would be well suited to temps in the 20s and lower. Like CSBM5 says, yesterday I had the M5 out and I decided to have some fun when a light turned green- the car was warmed up, driving for 20+ minutes- instead of laying a patch of rubber or any squeal, I got a lot of juddering, like the tires were big, hard doughnuts. Also the car feels more squirmy than normal in such temps.

However, on your typical 30ish day when you want to have some fun with a M5 + snow tires my experience is they would not cope with the power of the car- when I put snows on the M5 I always felt the car was emasculated on dry days... if its your do it all car, I think snows are needed for the winter though.
 

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This brings up a great question, given that I am a relatively moderate driver, the occasional tire chirp, rear end swing around, etc, what is the downside of having the Pilot Sports AS, all year? Oklahoma weather is; hot summers, 90-100's, springs are wet and sometimes tornado-ee!, fall is beautiful, and winters are wet and snowy. 1-3 inches.


Thoughts?

KCD
EdP said:
Had a service appt yesterday morning which I should have rescheduled due to weather, but how bad could it be (I asked myself) if they're only predicting a dusting to 1" of snow, starting in the afternoon? Answer: very, very bad. Turned out to be more like 3" by the time I headed home, and it's been so cold lately that every flake stuck on road surfaces. I literally could not drive slow enough. At 15 mph, I had trouble going in a straight line on a flat road. Everyone else is flying by me. I have Michelin PS2s. Twice, I totally lost control going down very gentle grades near my house; fortunately, the car recovered before I hit anything. I should have know better. Next time, the car stays home.
 

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grp said:
...If you have an accident on snow covered roads in Geneva and you don't have snow tyres, the insurance company can refuse to pay citing negligence
I don't have first (or even second hand) knowledge of this being true...
True I think throughout most of Western Europe. I know for sure it's true in Germany. In addition, in Germany if you drive in the winter (period...doesn't need to be snowing) in summer tires, the Polizei can stop and ticket you.

Jeff :cheers:
 

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Snow Tires definitely help! Here in Northern VA, we had some snow yesterday and the roads were very slippery. I was very glad I had put my snows on back in December (Pirelli 240s on 17' wheels). I had no problems on back roads and hills while I saw cars off the road all over the place (including a e46).
Dave
:cheers:
 

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kcdoyle said:
This brings up a great question, given that I am a relatively moderate driver, the occasional tire chirp, rear end swing around, etc, what is the downside of having the Pilot Sports AS, all year?
Less crisp steering response, more of a lazy feedback from the tires when pushing the car very hard, more sidewall flex, less ultimate grip and definitely no track events on those. If you don't need 9/10's, 10/10's performance on a regular basis, the trade off using the AS versus the PS2 is probably worth it.

The M5 sits tight in the garage during nastry weather here, but I've had good success with ContiExtremeContact tires on my Volvos -- decent dry road performance (although definitely different than a pure summer performance tire), excellent wet road traction and actually hard-to-believe good snow/ice traction (for a non-pure snow tire).
 

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kcdoyle said:
This brings up a great question, given that I am a relatively moderate driver, the occasional tire chirp, rear end swing around, etc, what is the downside of having the Pilot Sports AS, all year? Oklahoma weather is; hot summers, 90-100's, springs are wet and sometimes tornado-ee!, fall is beautiful, and winters are wet and snowy. 1-3 inches.


Thoughts?

KCD
In general, with the A/Ss (assuming similar tire width etc.) the steering response will be less crisp and more sluggish versus the PS2s. More tire spin on dry roads during hard launches in the late spring, summer, and early autumn when it's warmer outside.

Jeff :cheers:
 

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My thinking is: get the right shoes for the conditions. So I'm not an all season tire fan. That being said, its more convenient to have the all seasons on as well as less expensive. If I were to use a M5 as a winter car, Id get a separate set of wheels that are narrower and put a set of snows on them. I would figure out what months winter conditions usually present themselves and have the tires put on maybe 2 weeks before the typical start of winter, and plan on the same 2 week margin afterward. JMHO.
 

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MEnthusiast said:
Ed,
Yep- you took your car skiing- literally! What's important is no one got hurt. I had a similar experience with a 00 M5, the saving grace was I was heading into NYC where the slight temp difference turned the snow to rain. But while I was on the Hutch in the snow, I honestly felt scared.

Snow tires would transform the M5 into a quite useable vehicle, and would be well suited to temps in the 20s and lower. Like CSBM5 says, yesterday I had the M5 out and I decided to have some fun when a light turned green- the car was warmed up, driving for 20+ minutes- instead of laying a patch of rubber or any squeal, I got a lot of juddering, like the tires were big, hard doughnuts. Also the car feels more squirmy than normal in such temps.

However, on your typical 30ish day when you want to have some fun with a M5 + snow tires my experience is they would not cope with the power of the car- when I put snows on the M5 I always felt the car was emasculated on dry days... if its your do it all car, I think snows are needed for the winter though.

Here is my take on it:
Winter tires are a must for all cars in the winter doesn’t matter if they are 4 or 6 wheel drive. The tough question is what winter tires?
Here is my take on it: It depends on what surface you drive on most of the time

I come from Russia driving RWD cars all my life.
I live in Boston now and commute no NH 120 miles a day in an M5 and M3 SMG

When they tell me winters in NE are rough – I don't believe them - Finland is rough, Siberia is rough, Boston is not J

1) Majority of driving (90%) in NE is done on dry or wet cold roads (they always plough and put salt on the roads here), so the same rule applies as with summer tires - bigger contact patch, good wet traction. The only difference is winter tires don't glaze like Z rated tires and stay soft at cold temps (relatively cold - it rarely gets below -10 C here)

Therefore the choice is Pirelli Snowsports 240 in the widest possible fitment (for me 235/40/18 front and 265/35/18 rear) - had it for 2 winters - great, very little compromise in traction compared to PS2s in the summer (again during 90% of winter driving). I can fly around my favorite ramps as fast as on Ps2s in the summer, tires are good to 240km/h so close to the 150mph speed limit (er) J

2) Driving on packed snow (8% of time for me when I go skiing - 1/2 mile up the mountain, 50 feet driveway, 4-10 snowstorms – only during the first hour of the storm before they plough) - that's where you need narrow tires to push through snow and not slide/hydroplane like on skis on wide tires. So Pirellis are not the best for this task but they do OK and for 8% of driving I take it easy on packed snow - but so does everybody else :)
The best choice Nokian Hakapellita 4 (Finish tire) in smallest (narrowest) fitment with deepest thread. Other considerations are - Nokian Hakapellita 2 or 1, Nokian NRW, Blizaks LM22
Compromise - noise and low dry/wet traction – so you loose the sports car feel and handling

3) Driving on Ice (2%) - Ice storms, and frozen lakes (ice racing), occasional black ice (4 in the morning before they put salt) - Most of America stops if this happens so you are not going anywhere - so for me not a big consideration but Pirellis still do OK - not great

Best choice - Studded Nokian Hak 4
 

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Ilya,
I always thought you were better off with a smaller tire in the wet- less surface area you have to clear water from. Is that incorrect? Otherwise I agree with you- my thoughts are simply for a daily driver, better off with winter tires in the winter that can handle the snow and summer tires for the nicer weather that do better with more regular temps, than the compromise of all seasons, although I've been told the MPS AS are pretty good. :cheers:
 

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