We have agreed with Andrew to a test protocol on his car. We will scope a couple of cylinders before and immediately after the service. We will perform another scope a week or so later as the product will continue to soak into heavy combustion chamber deposits and clean. Results will be posted shortly.
Andrew will post his thoughts on the process and comment on any improvements in drivability, idle, cold start, fuel economy, etc.

 

We have agreed with Andrew to a test protocol on his car. We will scope a couple of cylinders before and immediately after the service. We will perform another scope a week or so later as the product will continue to soak into heavy combustion chamber deposits and clean. Results will be posted shortly.
Andrew will post his thoughts on the process and comment on any improvements in drivability, idle, cold start, fuel economy, etc.

Great.

Care to comment on the assurance you made of the 'same plug' in your images, and the 14 day timestamp differences on the images of the tops of the pistons ?

Thanks.

:byee55amg

 

We have agreed with Andrew to a test protocol on his car. We will scope a couple of cylinders before and immediately after the service. We will perform another scope a week or so later as the product will continue to soak into heavy combustion chamber deposits and clean. Results will be posted shortly.
Andrew will post his thoughts on the process and comment on any improvements in drivability, idle, cold start, fuel economy, etc.

Any update?

 

Still waiting for results ...

 

Good read, but from what I can gather constant use of the new shell vmax petrol cleans/removes the carbon as you drive.

 

I'm going to bump this to the top. I'm interested in Andrew's opinion.

 

terraclean

I have sent a pm to him as well, but am very intersted in the results of Terraclean. I have recently got the check engine light going on in my 2001 M5, and have replaced the MAFS, and have some O2 sensors on order, but would like to ensure I keep that damn engine light off this time...

 

Just bumping this one to the top again.

 

Terraclean test quick update

Hi,

We have completed the full test cycle about a week ago. Sorry about the delay, but my company is participating in a trade show Mon and Tue this week, and I have been completely focused on getting everything ready for the show. It's been a week from hell getting ready.

Also, I have been waiting for Stephen to let me know when he is ready to post pictures and, hopefully, videos from the borescope inspection.

I will post a proper description of the test, my personal comments and post-test impressions on Wed night, once the show is finished.

BTW, I will have couple special items in my review as well.

Andrew

 

REPOST: TerraClean test description and review --- Really long

I cut and pasted from MS Word, and ended up with a lot smileys. I should have previewed the post first.... Sorry.....



Hi,
<o>> </o>>
First of all, here is a quick background on history of my car. It’s a February 2000 built car with the original ring design. I bought the car from an independent dealer about 2.5 years ago, with 68kms, as my everyday ride. The car was off a 3 year lease. Based on an inspection by my mechanic the car was not in the best shape. However, this was a complex deal, involving my ’88 Lotus Espirit trade-in, aftermarket warranty as well as couple other things. After due consideration, I have decided to go ahead anyway.
<o>> </o>>
In all of my previous cars, I have been using Redline 20W50 synthetic oil, and I had started the M5 with it as well. Suffice to say, the independent shop had no clue about the old ring design and the requirement for 10W60 oil. I had been using the synthetic oil for about year, before I came across couple threads related to the old ring design. I have switched to 10W60, and I have been religious about using it since. The car has an oil change every 5,000 kms. On the average, it burns about 1 quart of oil every 2,000 kms.
I have about 120,000kms right now.
<o>> </o>>
About a year ago, my check engine light started to come on after few cold starts. After few days, it would go away, and then come back few days later. I took the car to the dealer, they reset the codes couple times. Again, nobody was aware of the carbon build up problem. I ended up buying a peake code reader so that I did not have to waste my time with the dealer. Anyway, I had the dreaded “Secondary Air Too Low” code. After couple months, the check engine light was on all the time. Whenever I would reset the code, the light would come back after 3-4 cold starts, and stay on.
<o>> </o>>
Since I am planning to keep the car for few more years, I was not too “freaked out” about this problem as it does not affect the car performance overall. However, the check engine light is very annoying, especially at night. My current solution is two pieces of black electrical tape over the check engine light.
<o>> </o>>
I have attempted to “fix” the problem by cleaning the secondary air tube, replacing the shutoff valve as well as injecting cleaner through a hole in the pipe. I have not been successful at all. The check engine light came back on within 3 cold starts.
<o>> </o>>
This summer, I have decided to perform a bit of “clean up”. I have changed all oxygen sensors, all cam position sensors and MAF’s (thank you David). The car ran much better, but I still had a “dead spot” between 2,500-3,000 rpm when accelerating, especially in the second gear. I thought that a fuel system clean up would be a good thing as well as looking at removing some carbon from the combustion chambers. I was in the process of doing some research on BG Products (http://www.bgprod.com/products/fuelair.html) , since there is a shop close to my house which performs this service, when the Terra Clean topic was started.
<o>> </o>>
OK…. Enough of the preamble….
<o>> </o>>
After Stephen offered to perform the carbon removal service on my car, I have decided to go take a look at the place first. After contacting Stephen, we have arranged for a tour of the facility. Terra Clean is part of a larger company which produces different types of automotive diagnostic and remedial products at their facility in <st1:city w:st="on">Mississauga</st1:city>, suburb of <st1:city w:st="on"><st1>lace w:st="on">Toronto</st1>lace></st1:city>. I was surprised that they actually do R&D and manufacturing in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1>lace w:st="on">Canada</st1>lace></st1:country-region>, rather then just importing from off shore. I was told that the overall company does about 28 million a year in revenue. After the tour, we have agreed that I would bring the car for the carbon service the following week.
<o>> </o>>
Next week, I was greeted by Stephen and one of the owners of the parent company. It turned out that the owner was going to perform the carbon service himself. After a short discussion, we have agreed on the following protocol:
<o>> </o>>

• Perform a borescope inspection of two combustion chambers.
• Perform the carbon removal service.
• Perform another borescope inspection of the same two cylinders.
• I would drive the car for a week or some.
• Perform third borescope inspection.
• We would add fuel additive for additional fuel system and carbon cleaning.
• Perform final borescope inspection

<o>> </o>>
At this time, we have completed steps 1-6. I have not gone back for the final borescope inspection as yet, due to lack of time over the last couple weeks.
<o>> </o>>
Since I have no practical experience with engines, ( I am a computer geek), I will describe the procedure, what I have seen on the borescope and my driving impressions. I have asked Stephen to prepare videos/images of the borescope inspections as well as a technical write up.
<o>> </o>>
Step 1.
<o>> </o>>
First of all, two spark plugs, closest to the front of the engine on the left side were removed. Borescope was used to look at the top of the pistons as well as cylinder walls. They had a bit of hard time trying to get a look at the valves. Based on my uneducated assessment, the combustion chamber was a mess. There appeared to be a very substantial built up of carbon on top of both pistons. In addition, there seem to be carbon “flakes” floating in the cylinders. You can see them in the video “propped up” against cylinder walls. I was surprised to see these “flakes”, since I had assumed that the combustion process would break them up.
<o>> </o>>
Step 2
<o>> </o>>
First of all, I used my peake reader to rest the engine codes. Next step was to pull fuel pump fuse. TerraClean injection device was attached to the fuel line in the front of the car. In addition, they have inserted another fuel pressure gauge, in order to verify accuracy of the fuel pressure gauge in the TerraClean unit. The TerraClean process involves running two different cleaning agents through the engine one after another. Two cans were attached to the TerraClean unit. I was told that each can should take about 10 minutes of engine run time. It turned out that the first can was finished after only 5 minutes on my car. Stephen suspected that this is due to the fact that S62 engine take much more fuel, then a typical engine. We have decided to use two cans of the first agent, rather then just one. The whole process was finished in about 20 minutes. After disconnecting the TerraClean equipment, re-enabling the fuel pump, the car started without any problems. However, my check engine light was on. I have used the peake reader again to read the codes. The reader reported about 8 engine codes, all related to Air Fuel mixture. I had reset the codes, and everything was back to normal.
<o>> </o>>
Step 3.
<o>> </o>>
The same plugs were removed again, and another borescope inspection was performed. Based on my amateur opinion, it appeared that a good portion of the build up on the top of pistons was gone, especially in areas close to the cylinder walls. The remaining carbon on the top of the pistons looked as if it was “wet”. Finally, the “carbon flakes” were gone. These are my visual perceptions. I hope that our “in-house” experts will be able to provide much more insightful comments, once Stephen posts videos.
<o>> </o>>
Step 4.
<o>> </o>>
I drove the car for about 10 days following the TerraClean procedure. My impressions were that the engine was running more smoothly and for lack of better word, more “snappy”. Also, the “dead spot” around 2,500 rpm in the second gear disappeared. Stephen indicated to me that I should notice a better mileage as well. I reset one of my mileage counters, but after 10 days I could not see any substantiated mileage improvement. I was averaging about 15 liters/100 kms.
<o>> </o>>
Step 5
<o>> </o>>
I dropped off my car at their facility in the morning, since I had couple meetings that day, and I could not stick around. I went back in the afternoon to pick up the car. I have not seen the results of the third borescope inspection personally. Stephen and the owner did mention to me that they thought that there was additional reduction in the carbon build up. Again, I will refer this question to our experts, once the videos are available.
<o>> </o>>
Step 6
<o>> </o>>
As the last step that day, Stephen put in a fuel additive in my full fuel tank. He indicated to me that the additives will provide additional carbon cleaning as well. I have used up about 3 tanks worth of gas since the last borescope inspection.
<o>> </o>>
Step 7
<o>> </o>>
I am planning on scheduling the final borescope inspection with Stephen sometimes over the next two weeks.
<o>> </o>>
The car continues to run smoothly and with a good snap to it.
<o>> </o>>
Here are my overall impressions:
<o>> </o>>
First of all, a disclaimer: Uview performed the procedure free of charge, and addition, I have received another freebie as well ( more on this later ).
<o>> </o>>

• The company which owns Uview and Terraclean is real, and they manufacture everything in house. I was quite impressed that one of the owners worked my car himself.
• The procedure is fairly simple to complete. I would recommend that you ask technician to use two cans of the first cleaning agent, due to our engines’ thirst.
• Keep you peake reader handy after the procedure. Likely, you will have about half a dozen of Air Fuel codes.
• The car feels smoother and stronger following the procedure. I have tried to account for “placebo” effect as best as I could.
• I have not seen a substantial improvement in mileage. However, I might just be driving more aggressively then before the procedure.
• To my uneducated eyes, the procedure did remove substantial amount of carbon from the combustion chambers.

<o>> </o>>
Rather then providing a recommendation, I will just say that I will be getting the TerraClean cleaning done again sometimes in the late spring next year, at my own expense.
<o>> </o>>
If you have questions and/or need a clarification, please, post them, and I will try to reply to them as soon as I can.
<o>> </o>>
Meantime, I hope that Stephen posts the videos soon with an educated analysis of the results.
<o>> </o>>
One more interesting observation regarding my carbon build up problem….
<o>> </o>>
Over the last two weeks, the weather turned much colder in <st1:city w:st="on"><st1>lace w:st="on">Toronto</st1>lace></st1:city>. About five days ago, my check engine light went off by itself. My jaw just about dropped to the floor. I thought a “miracle”, either weather or TerraClean fixed my carbon build up problem. Unfortunately, this morning my trusted “Seondary Air Too Low” light is back on. However, this “on/off” cycle has not happened in last eight months. Please, form your opinions whether there is any significance to this.
<o>> </o>>
Second interested related story…
<o>> </o>>
While talking with Stephen and the owner during my second visit, they told me that the company also makes a product for killing odour in car air conditioning systems. My wife drives 2005 E55 AMG, and since the beginning whenever she would turn the car on with A/C on (almost always), there was always a really bad odour for first few seconds from the vents. Stephen offered to perform the odour killing service on my wife’s AMG free off charge. Monica brought her car in during our visit for Step 5. The odour cleaning procedure took about 30 minutes to complete. My wife is thrilled. As of now, the Mercedes is odour free…
<o>> </o>>
I hope that M5 forum members will use this write up, together with videos (to be posted by Stephen) helpful in forming there own opinion on the TerraClean product.
<o>> </o>>
I would like to thank Stephen for his hospitality.
<o>> </o>>
Regards,
<o>> </o>>
Andrew

 

Well I called around and found a local garage that did the Terraclean motor vac service and I had it done today. I paid $119 for the standard service and another $50 dollar to have them run a second set of the chems threw the engine as per your suggestion. I pretty much had the same codes as you did when I used my Peak reader to read them Fuel Mixture. They do not offer any tank additive like Stephen did for your service. I also had them put on a new fuel filter that I bought.
I documented my fuel milage recently to compare the before and after results. When I first drove away from the shop I notice two heavy hesitations when I steped on the gas to get up to speed. Following that I drove around for a few mile normally and then decided to hit it harder and I have to say I experienced more throttle response. I will post again with my fuel milage difference.
I did not have a SES light prior to doing this and my reason was simply as preventive maintenance due to the carbon issues with the 00 E39's. Again for $169 dollars how can you go wrong vs the alternative IMHO.

 

Is no one bothered that Young Stephen has not answered posts #71 and #78 which demonstrate an inconsistency in information previously posted regarding the Terraclean process? Is no one suspicious that Andrew was given a canister of fuel additive to run around with after treatment with Terraclean?

What this group wants and has repeatedly requested is proof that this process does something. Young Stephen has not been able to provide that (and giving mismatching spark plug images, and photos of cylinders which are 14 days apart does not help to prove his process does anything).

So far all we have is subjective comment by those people who have had this work done. And comments on fuel / air adaptation fault codes after running the process which would tend to support the 'burns hotter than hell' hypothesis.

Let's have some scientific proof please ! hmmm

Until we've got this proof, why would anyone blow $169 on it?

 

Is no one bothered that Young Stephen has not answered posts #71 and #78 which demonstrate an inconsistency in information previously posted regarding the Terraclean process? Is no one suspicious that Andrew was given a canister of fuel additive to run around with after treatment with Terraclean?

What this group wants and has repeatedly requested is proof that this process does something. Young Stephen has not been able to provide that (and giving mismatching spark plug images, and photos of cylinders which are 14 days apart does not help to prove his process does anything).

So far all we have is subjective comment by those people who have had this work done. And comments on fuel / air adaptation fault codes after running the process which would tend to support the 'burns hotter than hell' hypothesis.

Let's have some scientific proof please ! hmmm

Until we've got this proof, why would anyone blow $169 on it?

Dont think we can get this in the UK, so not really able to comment, 2nd if you run shell VMax pretty much does the same thing, albeit over a longer time.

 

I cut and pasted from MS Word, and ended up with a lot smileys. I should have previewed the post first.... Sorry.....

Good write up Andrew... thanks for sharing your experience in detail. (Yeah, it is annoying that you can't cut and paste from Word into the m5board text field without all those little 'surprises'... )

Nice to hear of your observation on the boroscope before and after. I like that Terraclean seems interested in providing visual evidence to support their claims. Carbon deposits on piston tops are normal. I think where you start seeing performance problems from a combustion chamber standpoint is more when the carbon starts interfering with valve sealing. It may not be possible to get a good view of this. I'm not terribly troubled by this from an 'evidence' standpoint. If you see improvement on the piston tops, you are probably also affecting other areas of the combustion chamber. I look forward to seeing the videos.

Where visual evidence gets more troublesome is, for lack of a better word, 'quantifying' what you are seeing. Take the photos below (originally posted on the 'FAQ' thread). This is the combustion chamber from an M5 with 100k miles. This is normal carbon deposition that does not impact engine performance (note the clean valve edges). Can you compare your visual observations with this? It would probably be hard.

So we are left with 'performance' evidence. I assume you are sensitive to the placebo effect and can genuinely tell a difference in how the car runs before and after.

So for me, two things: 1) visual reduction via boroscope; 2) performance improvement after the treatment. Regardless of whether #1 can be quantified, where the rubber hits the road is in #2. Taken together, it sounds like a worthwhile expenditure in your situation.

Oh, as regards to the secondary air system carbon deposition, no surprises. Your light will be back on. My recommendation at this point is to get the PowerChip with the 'sensor block' feature to turn your light off.

Cheers and happy 'cleaner engine' motoring!

Dave

 

Can someone translate that into English? WTF???

 

Can someone translate that into English? WTF???

:hihi: Apologies if it wasn't written well.

To re-state my humble point of view:

1. Combustion chamber carbon deposition is certainly normal. The carbon in the pix I posted above might look bad, but it is not.

2. Looking through a boroscope, it might be unsettling to see the carbon, but it might not tell you anything about the carbon being excessive enough to cause performance issues.

3. If Terraclean can visibly remove carbon as noted through before and after observation via boroscope, that is not a bad thing. However, visual inspection via boroscope may be unreliable. Perhaps there are other ways to better assess the carbon removal, although I'm not sure what that would be.

4. The proof would have to be in the car's performance.

I should underscore that this recent discussion is related to combustion chamber carbon, not secondary air system carbon (which can trip your SES). The later is impervious to combustion chamber treatment and gasoline additives.

I would also add that confirmed cases of combustion chamber carbon build up degrading the engine's performance seem to be pretty rare in the S62.

Hope this helps.

Dave

 

Sorry Dave - I meant that to be a write up of post #12 but failed to include the message in my reply.

Your write-up was clear.

My apologies,
Eric

 

arok, thanks and nice write up... this got me reading the whole report and would like to see some pics and report from Young stephen (MIA) for now...

 

I'm interested in this too. No SES light for me so far (knock on wood) but if indeed this clears out some of the nastiness in there I'm sure it can't hurt... Still waiting for Stephens response...

 

Stephen did reply to a private message I sent on Friday, and he did say he's busy with Sema this week, so he won't reply until next week.

I am just as interested in all the pics, vids, etc., and am also interested in having his people perform the terraclean service instead of going to a garage.

Anyhow, I hope to hear from him soon.

 

Apparently he got so busy at Sema 2006, it has been 3 years and he still hadn't replied....

 

RE: terraclean

I got this lengthy email a few days after i emailed terraclean's website.. hope this is useful information.


Good morning,

My name is Bill Richards and I hope to get you the answers you are seeking.

There are a number of carbon build-up issues with BMW ( and most other OEM's) and I would like to get specific to get you the right solution.

We see carbon problems on Throttle Bodies, Intake Runners, Intake Valves, on Piston Crowns, in the Piston Ring Lands, in PCV/EGR Systems, in Turbochargers, and in Catalytic Converters.

TerraClean offers products that provide a solution to each of these problem areas.

Some information that you find useful.

TerraClean offers three fuel system solutions, the first is a TerraClean service using our patented machine and chemicals.

TerraClean takes regular gasoline and runs it through a reaction process that separates it into two major components, the aromatic portion and the aliphatic portion. The aromatic portion is then enhanced chemically and packaged in our Red can. The aliphatic portion is packaged in our Black can.

The Aromatic portion of gasoline is the part that creates Octane and contains most of the energy (Btu's) in the fuel. Unfortunately in normal engine operation this portion burns incompletely, leaving deposits can be left throughout the intake, PCV/EGR, combustion chamber, and everywhere downstream in the exhaust system.

The aliphatic portion burns very cleanly and will actually combust carbon, phosphorus, and other contaminants leaving little more than water vapor and CO2 coming out of the tailpipe.

In the TerraClean cleaning process the TerraClean machine is hooked up to the fuel rail (on high pressure direct injection engines, it is hooked up to the low pressure side of the system before the High Pressure pump. The two cans (Red and Black) are connected to the machine and emptied into the individual storage tanks inside the machine.

Shop air is applied and the pressure regulator is set to a level approximately 5 Psi less than the manufacturers specification for the system fuel pump, the vehicles fuel pump is disabled (following our printed recommendations), and then the engine is started. At this point the engine is running on the first can, the aromatic part of our system. The TerraClean machine has a unique feature in that charges the product with a strong negative electrical charge which causes it to be drawn to the carbon deposits natural positive charge. This means more of the product actually interacts and attacks the deposits than would otherwise be possible.

The Red can Aromatic portion softens and breaks down deposits in the combustion chamber, in the turbocharger (if there is one), in the exhaust including any O2 Sensors, and in Catalytic Converter.

After the Red can product is used up the machine automatically switched to the Black can component, the Aliphatic which then actually combusts (burns) the softened or broken down deposits throughout the system including the O2 Sensors and Converter.

This is about a 20 minute process and does a remarkable job of cleaning everything from combustion chamber and exhaust system.

On direct injection engines there is a problem with deposit accumulation in the intake port and on the intake valve. This is because on these engines the fuel doesn’t touch the intake port or valve whereas normally this fuel would tend to “wash” those areas keeping them relatively clean.

On engines with these problem we recommend the use of our TerraClean Intake Valve Deposit Cleaner product which is introduced through a pressurized container and an S-Hook tool through the air intake after any air sensors and before the throttle body. This service will rapidly (15 minutes) clean these areas using the a combination of technologies including the Aliphatic chemistry of TerraClean.

We suggest that after performing the Intake Valve Deposit Cleaner service you perform the regular TerraClean service to ensure that the entire system is cleaned.

For vehicles that might need this service performed on regular basis (10,000 – 20,000 miles) we offer an pour-in tank additive our TerraClean Optima Fuel System Cleaner that can be used periodically (every oil change) to prevent the reoccurrence of most fuel related problems.

We have several distributors in California and if you will let me know where you are located, I will pet you together with someone who will help you get a service scheduled.

Let me know if you need any further information.

Best wishes,

Bill Richards

 

I

We see carbon problems on Throttle Bodies, Intake Runners, Intake Valves, on Piston Crowns, in the Piston Ring Lands, in PCV/EGR Systems, in Turbochargers, and in Catalytic Converters.

Just keep in mind that NONE of those are the problems with the 'dreaded E39 Carbon Build Up (CBU) Problem'.

But I am absolutely sure that had they known where our CBU exisits, they have definitely included it as one of the primary goals of their process.

The rest of it isn't worth discussing.