So the new M5 redlines at 7100-7200rpms
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I saw another photo (really a video frame) with the temp gauge in the operating range and the tach redline was still the same. Perhaps the moving redline ring won't be on the F10 M5 or at least was not on the pre-production car in the video.
Looks like 7150 - 7200 is it. But this is more than the 7000 redline of the X5M and X6M motors.
Looks like 7150 - 7200 is it. But this is more than the 7000 redline of the X5M and X6M motors.
For me, I don't care how high it revs. I've had plenty of cars that rev past 8,000 rpms. They all have one thing in common, no torque until high rpm. Everyone brags about how much horsepower they have, but what they really love is torque. One of the reasons I love BMW's diesels so much is the torque in any gear feeling. 7,000 rpm's is plenty for me. I can't wait to see the torque figures.
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Very true Sir.
But I believe the car will not be very high on torque. Surely, the Alpina B5 will have more torque.
I noticed the same thing in the video when they were cold weather testing the car. I also notieced 2 different X5Ms that I recently test drove did not have the moving redline so chances are the F10 wont have it either.
I'm with you 110%. Some people just love their N/A high revving motors, lack of torque or not, partially due to the sound of a high strung motor. I think it allows them to pretend they're driving a "race car." :wroom:
When I was growing up, these same types of people existed. They drove Honda Civics or S2000s, and bragged about hp per liter. We called them ricers. :flag:
I'm not sure anybody was trying to slam the E60 or the V10. I too own a V10 (not a BMW) that screams past 8,000 rpms and has a sound that will make you weak in your knees. The fact is, as is always the case when a new model comes out, a lot of people are ready to dismiss a car that they don't even know anything about. I think the new M5 is going to be an absolute monster. And even if the factory holds back, which won't surprise me too much if they do, you can get as much or more performance from the new M5 for a quarter of the price that you had to pay for your stroker motor from Dinan. Again, not knocking your E60, but have been amazed at the comments on the F10 about how it won't rev to 8,000 rpms and how the car is going to be just a big heavy pig. I don't see the M division doing any such thing. I think this car is going to be amazing and even though I love my V10 in my car, I would love to send it Underground Racing for a little bit of extra torque. One other thing for me is that I live over 6,000 feet above sea level, so a naturally aspiratred engine looses over 20% of its power. My 335Xi with Cobb Tuning can take my V10 to 80mph any day of the week just because it has more torque off the line and it's only loosing 12% or less at this altitude.
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I agree. I am going to stcik with my M6 and shall either get a stroker or the G Power kit.
there is no "pretending" to drive a "race car" in the S85 M6, it is a street legal race coupe with the heart of an F1 beast. There is no lack of torque for street driving, it is perfect in the history of what M was.
:eek7: There are No "ricers" as you call them here, but if you owned the S85, you would understand, there is NO comparison to toys like a Honda Civic or S2000 with a loud muffler :3:
I promise I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but a 3,900+ pound race coupe? Seriously? I didn't call the car a ricer, so I'm not the one you were talking to. I just read your post and thought I should respond. The V10 has good torque, but not great by any means until you get it higher in the power band. I will almost guarantee that the new M5/M6 will have over 100 lb.ft more torque at 2,000 rpm's earlier. Again, I really am not trying to start anything. I just cannot agree that the M6 is a race car. Nor do I think it was meant to be. It may be one of the most evil GT's ever made though.
I wasnt responding to your post, and my points were at the silly post by the other member. I was saying the race coupe statement in jest, but the point is the same, as no one is buying an M6 as a track race car, its a street car with undeniable power and the heart of a race car, that is 100% true, it is a GT, in the vein of a 599, which also happens to have very similar size attributes btw.
I dont want to argue either, but trust me, as a daily drive the S85 M6 has plenty of torque for street driving, you cant imagine how fast the RPMs move up the powerband - and note i did not say street racing or drag racing from a dig, but if you drive the car on Americans streets, roads and highways, there is nothing more that anyone needs, thats the facts of life in a world governed by 65mph limits on highways and 35mph limits on local roads, there is absolutely no more power or torque needed than that which the S85 produces. It matters little that the next M5/M6 will have more power up top and torque lower down, all that will mean is that you will have even less usable powerband to work with on our streets and roads, and the weight gains negate much of the power gains in any case, and steering and handling attributes, and give up NA response for turbo lag.
I dont want to argue either, but trust me, as a daily drive the S85 M6 has plenty of torque for street driving, you cant imagine how fast the RPMs move up the powerband - and note i did not say street racing or drag racing from a dig, but if you drive the car on Americans streets, roads and highways, there is nothing more that anyone needs, thats the facts of life in a world governed by 65mph limits on highways and 35mph limits on local roads, there is absolutely no more power or torque needed than that which the S85 produces. It matters little that the next M5/M6 will have more power up top and torque lower down, all that will mean is that you will have even less usable powerband to work with on our streets and roads, and the weight gains negate much of the power gains in any case, and steering and handling attributes, and give up NA response for turbo lag.
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m630 said:
Why do we need to trust you? I have an S85 and I feel like it needs more torque, especially down in the low RPMs. The E63, E55, GTR, 997TT, and Z06 (among many others) all have comparable horsepower numbers but with much more torque. Heck even the E39 M5 has more torque in the lower RPMs....
Verbs (the poster you're responding to) actually has an S85 M5 and still he feels it needs more torque. If you go through this thread: http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-touring-discussion/164696-i-wish-my-m5-had.html you will notice many other owners of the S85 would like more torque!m630 said:
Yawn
My post was not intended to deride the new F10. I was just merely suggesting the stroker as an option for those who preferred naturally aspiration.
I sure wasn't trying to dog on your stroker motor either. I was just pointing out that turbo cars are much easier to tune. Anyway, I may have been a little too aggressive with that post this morning, but I was just getting sick of reading a lot of post dogging the new M5. I know you weren't and I didn't mean to make it seem like I was directing that towards you alone. Thanks.
M6 a street legal race coupe? :3: Come on, who are you kidding? It's a fast car with an awesome motor don't ge me wrong, but is no where near a race car nor does it have the heart of an F1 beast.
Yes, there is a lack of torque for street driving, heck, even the E39 had a good amount more torque/power down low.
And yes, I own an S85 and understand clear as day. Maybe you've never owned a car with solid low end power so you don't know the fun and daily drivability ease you're missing. I have and do.
Not everyone has 35 mph speed limits on local roads, and if you think for a moment everyone here abides to the letter of a 65mph highway speed limit, you have another coming to you.
Not wanting/needing more torque is completely subjective. I've had it and it's a blast. I'd rather have it and it's very useable on the streets. Reduces the need to shift and rev the motor to pass, more fun putting around town.
It matters little that the next M5/M6 will have more power up top and torque lower down, all that will mean is that you will have even less usable powerband to work with on our streets and roads, and the weight gains negate much of the power gains in any case, and steering and handling attributes, and give up NA response for turbo lag.[/quote]
Turbo lag will be minimal, and one could say the lack of low end torque in the S85 is lag in itself. That said, how having more torque down low and more power up top lead to a less useable powerband? Quite the contrary, that's the definition of a more useable powerband. Power EVERYWHERE.
The race coupe statement was a joke, for the second time, and yes, just read all about it, the S85 is derived from what BMW learned in F1, those are the facts.
Your suggestion of what defines "minimal" in the subject of turbo lag, is as jermain as my counter to your S85 torque arguement, any turbo lag is too much and I'll leave it at that.
The point on the useable powerband is this, if you have so much torque down low and power, you will first, spin out more than you want to as you cant get grip, and second, now with the additional torque you are moving a 4,200lb vehicle very quick in local, down low situations, you know, when you are at a stop light with a car in front of you on a local road, already with the S85 and its "terrible" low end torque we are already up the person in front of us' tail, adding more torque to the equation only adds to the frustration. You own the car so you have to agree that we cant always be in the pole position, and hence are often behind someone, more torque means we have even less of an opportunity to drive the car, so to speak, rather than having to cruise and let off because the rest of the world has 'regular' cars. Its just a matter of fact in American roads. Any while you may note driving styles which may or may not adhere to local restrictions, there are more times than not that we do have to abide by them, and driving street to street up someones behind aint all that fun, imho :byebye:
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