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I don't need to start a thread for learning how a manual gearbox works, because I didn't not ask these question to have answers for a conventional gearboxes.
I asked these question to know how you relate them to this specific SMG transmission. Notice I am using the term "Gearbox" and "Transmission" I am sure you know the differences.

I asked these question because they are related to the specific SMG operation and they point to the heart of this thread, and it is for anyone who comes here looking for small piece of information to complete the puzzle, and willing to see a bigger picture on how the SMG works, if this how you answer them then this shows that your understanding of how the SMG works is shallow and you need to sit more often with the system and study it. It also shows your understanding of a conventional manual gearbox is shallow if you don't know that by the rotation of the input shaft will cause a minimal rotation of the output shaft in neutral if not connected to the rear drivetrain while engine is running, and that explain why the clutch slip point adaptation failed. This signal is sensed by the transmission speed sensor that is mounted below the horizontal line of the main shaft on the gearbox case to measure the speed of the layshaft.

You didn't comment on the picture, what do you think of the Gearbox output speed sensor.

It is positive to use the term "AFAIK" but it also means you may not know or the info you provided is wrong. We all missing some information about the SMG because we didn't design it and part of it is electronic and unknown written software and logics so it is not appropriate to jump on every post and start to criticize, there are multiple better way to express your senses. We are all here to support each other and enjoy what connect us at least this is how I see it.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Platti the point of this thread was to document the adaptation failures that I had after replacing most of the SMG controls and the odd noises. the issue was resolved, notwithstanding your miscellaneous commentary and often irrelevant or unsafe advice.

there are other resources on the internet or in your library that can answer your basic questions. You have basic questions, they are off topic to this thread. I really don’t know what the hell you are trying to say in your 1st question. The SMG is a conventional manual transmission with electro hydraulic control that automates the shifting to simulate a human. That’s it. It is far less complicated than a conventional automatic transmission. However perhaps you know better than I because you also have transmissions development and calibration, that’s wonderful. Unfortunately I and others have to correct or disregard much of your nonsense commentary (there’s too many to list and I don’t have the time or desire to constantly correct your erroneous comments.)

here is an example of an erroneous comment since you seem to want to personally insult me:

It also shows your understanding of a conventional manual gearbox is shallow if you don't know that by the rotation of the input shaft will cause a minimal rotation of the output shaft in neutral if not connected to the rear drivetrain while engine is running, and that explain why the clutch slip point adaptation failed. This signal is sensed by the transmission speed sensor that is mounted below the horizontal line of the main shaft on the gearbox case to measure the speed of the layshaft.
you are completely missing the point, it was not the reason for the failed adaptation, but some how you seem to know what actually happened and what steps I took to resolve it beyond what I wrote here. To be clear, If the clutch is truly open, the input shaft should NOT turn. However the clutch may be partly engaged because it is unadapted or other reasons that others have cited. A partially engaged clutch WILL cause the car to move forward. the clutch was not completely opened in my case, that is what failed in the slip point adaption. That’s also why the car must have the parking brake applied and wheels chocked. It also explains why I said your suggestion to tie strap the driveshaft instead of bolting is dangerous.

There is a transmission input speed sensor, I don’t see an output speed sensor on the SMG which is something I already stated. That’s doesn’t mean output speed can’t be calculated.
 

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here is an example of an erroneous comment since you seem to want to personally insult me:
Not at all, nothing personal here, all technical.

My concern in the last posts is for 2 points to clarify;
1- The reason of the clutch slip failure while performing it with driveshaft removed.
2- The gearbox output speed sensor.

What I believe is that they are both related and discuss part of this thread topic plus your understanding of the SMG operation not sure about the output speed and it's sensor.
Let me ask you, is it possible to pass the clutch slip point adaptation with the drivershaft removed even after installing new PLCD and clutch fork?
You can remove the driveshaft and test, or if you have a spare transmission ( so no clutch partial engagement as you mentioned ) in neutral "no gear engaged" turn the input shaft and observe the output shaft, is it turning? if it does and that what is going to happen then the output sensor on the layshaft is counting revolutions and that will not meet the clutch slip point adaptation criteria. At the same time you can also remove the speed sensor and observe the turning of the layshaft along with the output shaft.
 

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Discussion Starter #44
I’ve said this in other ways already but I’ll be very succinct here. There is no output speed sensor on my SMGs, only an input sensor. Maybe you have one on yours or they had one on preLCIs (I doubt that). Therefore, your theory is irrelevant. I explained already how the output speed can be derived. If you are not satisfied with that then start your own thread on that. If you want to continue to insult me then so be it. This isn’t the first time in this particular thread I’ve repeated what I said. I can’t help the fact that I resolved and described what I did to resolve the issue. You have your own car now, so why do you want to ask me to waste MY time and money to answer YOUR questions. What purpose does it serve for you to make up new theories on why I could not adapt the clutch slip point 2-3 months after I resolved the issue? This must be some game that you are playing to cause additional confusion on how the car works.
 

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There is no game here, it is purely technical for anyone reads this.
You mentioned that you explained how the output speed is calculated, I scrolled up but didn't find any, what I only found is you start to be convinced it is being used for a manual transmission
The confusion here is the definitions, you are looking for a sensor called output speed sensor, correct?
I am concerned on operation more than definitions.

There are 2 sensors used by the SMG, Crankshaft sensor and that would measure the engine RPM and the input shaft because it is connected to the crankshaft, the other one it is called input speed sensor but that installed to read the layshaft or counter shaft (Item 21) which indirectly measure the output shaft speed and from that sensor the output speed is calculated based on which gear is selected.

You may have more than one factor when you failed the clutch adaptation slip point but defiantly not installing the driveshaft will let the output shaft and the counter shaft to rotate so the input speed sensor (item 11) will read that rotation and will terminate the clutch slip point adaptation with unsuccessful test because condition not met.

If you have full understanding of the clutch slip point adaptation, it is the point where the countershaft start to rotate when the clutch start to engage, if that counter shaft or out put shaft is rotating before initializing the test the whole process will be terminated.

Got it.
I hope I added a useful information to your library.
944446
 

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Discussion Starter #46
You really need to learn more about transmissions yourself before continuing to attempt to explain about how the SMG works and provide troubleshooting advice other than excerpting sections of TIS or summarizing what others have said.
Crankshaft sensor and that would measure the engine RPM and the input shaft because it is connected to the crankshaft, the other one it is called input speed sensor but that installed to read the layshaft or counter shaft (Item 21)
There is something called a clutch assembly. This attaches to the flywheel and couples/decouples the transmission and engine. The clutch is not part of the transmission or gearbox. Once you understand that then you would understand why the input shaft and crank need to have their own speed sensors. The fact that this and other threads have gone on this long only highlight your lack of understanding of a basic manual transmission, that is why I suggested you go to the library and borrow some books on the basics of automobiles. You will learn how gear reduction and torque multiplication works. The gear ratios are known so it’s is a simple mathematical operation for the computer. The diagram you found only proves my point. There is an input speed sensor, and no output speed sensor, I stated that days ago. Perhaps you finally understand, although it’s not clear you understand measuring input vs output. The output is not measured, since there is no sensor, that doesn’t mean it can’t be calculated.

You may have more than one factor when you failed the clutch adaptation slip point but defiantly not installing the driveshaft will let the output shaft and the counter shaft to rotate so the input speed sensor (item 11) will read that rotation and will terminate the clutch slip point adaptation with unsuccessful test because condition not met.
Stop arguing from ignorance and stop making up facts that you know nothing about. I already stated there may have been more than one thing causing the clutch slip adaptation failure months ago. How do you know “definitely” that not installing the driveshaft let the input shaft sense rotation?? You don’t. You’ve made no direct observations. I made these observations first hand and so have others who have had this issue. Yet some how Platii knows it was the driveshaft not hooked up??? The clutch was partially (or fully) engaged, that’s what turned the input shaft. INPA displays the input speed sensor during the procedure when it fails. Stop arguing that there was else going on.
 
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