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Discussion Starter #1
I've been trying to teach in the adaptation on my SMG over the past few days. Many of you with SMG, have been able to go through this process without issues so it would be interesting to see if you hear the same things. For this video I think the noises are "normal" for the process. Like many others, I'm having issues, but I've not come across any postings which are similar to mine. I currently have 4F66 and 4F67 codes for the fact that the adaptations are incomplete as well as the RCOD and non stop gong. When I did the first clutch valve adaptation the engine fired up fine at steady idle and all seemed to be good. I was going to hook up the drive shaft the next day and do the rest of the adaptations. so I went home. When I came back next day, I fired it up and it ran rough like it had a load on it and then went to run the adaptations on the rest of the car and now seem to be stuck, where I can't even get past the gearbox teach-in. This is where I get the fail as seen in the video. Same issue in INPA, fail at gearbox adaptation. I didn't record the video of that since I hadn't installed the screen recording software yet. Also I'm only able to get INPA to work with my K+DCAN cable, but I can get ICOM to work with either (by changing the EDIABAS settings).

The clutch valve teach in passes but the complete transmission teach in fails at the very end. You can hear very firm shifts and to motor seems to run fine and build pressure. I do have some occasional failures to bleed the actuator block, but when I retry it again it seems to work. I have a separate recording of that and the associated error and noises that I will also post when I get that video uploaded in the next two hours. The rattling noise seems to be the thing that makes it error out, when I am able to get it to run the actuator block bleed successfully that noise does not seem to occur. Perhaps this is related to the adaptation fail, but I've never done this before so I don't know what is normal noise.

I've recorded the complete procedure that I used in ISTA along with a microphone about 18 inches away from the rear of the trans underneath. The video is LOUD when the motor kicks on but that is basically what you hear when you are laying underneath the car.

The video is loud when the motor kicks on but that is basically what you hear when you are laying underneath the car. I placed the microphone about 18 inches away from the rear of the trans.

I'm using ISTA with an ICOM, you can see the system voltage live in the top right, as the motor activates you can see the voltage drop and recover. I have a 50 amp power supply kicking out 14.0v and bolted to the jump start terminals, which measures 13.8v.

What has been done to the trans:
I replaced the clutch, throwout bearing, and flywheel a few months back. Visual confirmation of the clutch disk being worn down to the rivets, which match what I felt. and did ALL the orings, inspected and cleaned the SMG motor, and replaced the slave cylinder, repaired the gear sensor selection strip. I've flushed the pump and bled the slave cylinder 3-8 times and then the actuator block 3-5 times. Fluid is topped off and fresh pentosin, no leaks at any of the lines. I've swapped PCLDs and the error seems to remain, with either PCLD, I seem to always be able to do a successful clutch valve teach in. Car is sitting on it's wheels, supported on elevated platform which is level. I don't have the drive shaft hooked up since I know I may have to drop the trans again, but it is bolted to the trans support at rear. With gears commanded manually, I can engage every single gear, and I am able to check the output shaft at each gear so it seems that when it is in gear it is in gear and when in neutral, it's in neutral.


Video notes:
Clutch valve adaption passes the program @1:17, values @ 1:25

Trans teach in starts @ 1:35
Fail @ 2:20 with fault message [42] Gear cannot be engaged. However I am able to select every single gear in the other manual tests, so I don't think the gearbox is bad. It was working fine prior, and the actuator block was not removed, but all orings on the valves were replaced.

I run it again a second time @2:40 , same failure at the end @3:26.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Doing the Actuator block bleed in ISTA after doing the clutch bleed several times (this was always successful)

As mentioned in the prior post here is a video of a failed actuator bleed, with a loud rattling sound within 25 seconds of the test running and then displaying some fault code 18. Anyone know where or how to see that error is stored in ISTA? You can see that I re-run the test immediately @0:39 and it seems to run fine.

I often have this situation which is a failure very early in the bleed process followed by a very loud noisy rattle, which I am unsure what is causing the noise which you can hear @ 0:27 with an fault code 18.

The abort usually happens 20-30 seconds in to the test so it should if it was going to error out again, it should do so before 1:15 but it runs fine. I end the video early since this goes on for 15 minutes.

 

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Rattling at 3:20-22 is not normal. Most other sounds seem fine. Don't remember ista trying to engage 8th but it's been a while since I last ran adaptations. Too much V drop on the 2nd video. Have you tried inpa?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Yes I tried INPA and it's basically the same, I did not do the videos because it was getting really late yesterday and I cannot get INPA to work with my ICOM, I have tried the stuff with iToolRadar and reserving the IP address and changing all the settings in the EDIABAS files. Rather than effing up my system too badly so that nothing works, I'd just have to switch everything to the DCAN cable. I will do all this with INPA again in a few days when I can get back to the car. I'm looking for ideas to try.

I believe that the adaptation has to go through all 8 gears to validate the sensor strip correctly registers the gear and looks at the value from each of the hall effect sensors. Again very odd that I can command every single gear in INPA or ISTA without issues. Also in the video you can hear and see that it gets to all 8 gears, with the sound of the clunk. When I do the manual engagement, I put my hand on the output shaft (no drive shaft installed) and verify that it's in gear. The sounds I hear are the same.

So you're talking about the creaking sound in the 1st video? at 3:20-3:22 or did you mean the second video at 0:27-0:33? not sure if that was a typo. I can hear a valve opening that seems to relieve the pressure at 0:33 which seems to stop the rattle.

For the creaking at 3:20-3:20, it's easy to hear under the car but when you're inside you can't hear that. To me is sounds like creaking from pressure building up in the system, I'd like to know what the press is as this is happening. Do you know if it is possible to log pressure while these test are running with Testo or something else? Any way to have a separate instance of INPA running at the same time to view values? I figure no since it's all running a one service. I could look at tapping in to the pressure transducer and logging the output voltage and figuring it out that way on a scope.

I have no clue where the rattle is coming from. Seem like some valve oscillating. The fact that it is intermittent led me to think it was some sort of air entrapment but I've bled the thing alot.

I agree the voltage drop is less than ideal, but I don't know what the latency is either on ISTA. This is the reality of the voltage drop that happens when the SMG motor is put under load. I do have a 1 farad capacitor that I can install in parallel, that should knock out any sort of voltage drop, there is no industrial power supply that has something like that built in. The battery is also hooked up and fully charged, its 3 months old. I can dig out my scope to view the voltage drop and also dig out a current clamp but this I feel that's all abit too nerdy and not going after the real issue. The power supply is kicking out 14.1V which is what an alternator is supposed to put out. It is bolted to the jumper cable terminals with 8 AWG wire, so I'm minimizing voltage drop from bad connection. The multimeter shows 13.8-13.9v at those terminals. I'm measuring all this with an very accurate HP multimeter. The max current the motor can possibly draw based on the wires going to it is kinda small. It's miniscule compared to some of subwoofer amplifiers I used to play with in the 90s. I haven't is because I'd have to get some heavy gauge wires and terminals and spent time researching this problem and making videos.
 

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I had that loud noise when it failed venting the block. I did it many times with ISTA, but once I did it with DISv57 it passed, I am not sure if it is just a coincidence that passed the time I used DIS. That loud noise was there every time it failed. My explanation is just pressure relief. May be just a lot of air in the system. I would try to vent both clutch and the block, if it fails do again the lutch and try to vent the block, if it fails do the clutch again then try to vent the block hoping the last time it will pass. There is one note i read in TIS is that it is best if the rear of the car is higher than the front before bleeding the clutch, it will help the bleeding process, try that netx.
For the other issue "transmission teach-in" I noticed there is a slight rattle noise at the end of the test in the second trial on gear 8. If you could reach under during the test is touch what is making that noise, you might have an idea.
If you can start the car you can do 2 things:
1- You complete the clutch teach-in by performing the slip point test and get rid of Fault 4F67.
2- Then try to vent the clutch and block again and see if it pass, check if you can shift all gears.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
My thought on that loud rattle was air pocket, but I've had 3 successful actuator bleeds so I went to the next steps of trans teach-in. Who else has heard this rattle? Always fails right after 8th (Reverse) I've had my hand on different parts of the trans and can't isolate it, I may end up dropping in down and then doing this routine with it next to passenger tire. That would be the only way of feeling the top of the trans where the actuators are. I have an extra SMG harness that I can have hooked up to ECU.

I don't know if I can actually do the teach if the clutch slip point with the driveshaft off. There is nothing resisting the output shaft, so I think when the controller is looking for the input shaft speed to get to zero it never does because there is nothing to drag on the output shaft. I tried doing this clutch slip adaptation that but it also failed. I believe the message was something like it could not get to 0 RPM on the input shaft which signals the clutch is disengaged. I reason that since I tried doing that teach in and since it failed it, sets the 4F67.

Engine starts when the vehicle is in this service mode (as I understand it has to otherwise you can't do the clutch slip teach-in. The Engine runs a bit rough because I think it sees a load at idle in on the trans. I think it's looking at the SMG to tell it if there is a load so it's hunting at idle. I mentioned the very first time it was actually really smooth and I had no errors at all. I have to assume that the controller still had the old adaptations for the slip point and trans pattern. I only did the adaption for the clutch valve, which I think is NOT the PCLD, that would be the slip point.

Has anyone ever did a clutch slip point teach in with the wheels off the ground (drive shaft hooked up) Also, same question but with the driveshaft not hooked up?

I seemed to recall reading on some 5 year old posts that these routines sometimes fail in older or new versions of ISTA or INPA. Anyone know if that is the case? The command being passed should really be the same, it's just the GUI that changes

regarding #2. I can do the bleeds another 3-5 more times. but it would help to know if others have encountered this. I'm going to do this in INPA again and record it, but when I did it on Friday it was basically the same. I don't have issues with manually commanding gears. I do wonder if it's related to the sensor strip. What have others seen for the analog 3 values.

I will also use Tool32 to read out the values that I can extract. I seemed to have read that Tool32 can be used to set the module back to a initialized, perhaps virgin state. Anyone actually do this before? I've poked around Tool32 and have used it to read out values that I can save as text files along with the hex, so I have some familiarity. I can also read some german, but some of the terms are gobblyguk in english in the first place.

I have another SMG module that I can also hook up and I plan to look at the values I see that are stored in there.
 

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Glad you passed the block ventilation.
The Analogue value 3 looks fine to me. In inpa you can manually engage gears and observe the reading from the small window that pops up during the process and also will give you green or red indication to indicate success of the test for each gear.
I don't think the drive shaft must be installed before the clutch slip point test, but if you think so then install it and test again.
Not sure if the car should be on ground, but I don't think so. I would run the transmission status page and check the value of the transmission speed with engine off and then I start the engine and observe any changes., I would also remove the sensor and inspect it and clean if required, also a visual output drive movement check.
In worst case you will drop the box and inspect the actuating valve for R/1st and it's respective hydraulic valve o'rings.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I engaged the gears in INPA with no issue. Same thing in ISTA. They are the same commands just different GUI, INPA is better since it shows the data though. Furthermore as in the video, there are always very solid shift engagements so in don’t have a reason to believe that the box is not physically in the right gear. I think the sensing circuits are what’s the problem, which is partly why theses SMG control system designs are just ****ty unreliable systems with little fault tolerance. Perfect for F1 when you have a team of engineers and mechanics that rebuild everything constantly.

I can’t see how the clutch-slip engagement calibration could be properly done without a load on the output, there has to be something to over come the inherent drag in the gearbox. I just don’t want to waste time bolting back up the driveshaft when I can’t even get the gearbox adapted. that’s why I’d like to know if anyone has ever tried this with no driveshaft installed, because my assumptions could be totally wrong.

I have verified earlier that when the box is in N, spinning the output shaft does turn the input, which makes sense since there is enough friction to make the shaft spin. But when the rest of the driveline is hooked up there’s plenty of inertial load, and if the wheels are on the ground then the load is the total inertial load of the car at rest.

AFAIK the engine cannot start when 4F66 and 4F67 are set. I’ll try it nonetheless, but there’s no way to check trans speed like that. What I was able to do was look at the output shaft under the car and it was spinning. Again, there’s no load on it so that’s not necessarily conclusive of the trans NOT being in N. I’m not going to just reach out and grab it either to find out.

I already replaced all the orings when I dropped the trans a few months back. I’m getting clean and solid shifts in the actuator bleed sequencce, manual gearbox commands, and complete trans adaption “attempts”. I’m leaning towards bad gear sensor strip.
 

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I think you are right, the output shaft would barley move even in N position, if the transmission speed sensor reads that slight rotation and the logic for the test is set to zero then that explain the test failure especially that the test result mentioned something regarding that.
Try to do this if you don't want to install the driving: just get anything to prevent the output shaft from moving and do the test.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I'm going to drop the trans again later this week and swap out the actuator block with my other one. Since I have it opened up I should be able manually play with the rod selectors since you asked about it. I'll also do the bleeding procedure with the trans next to the car instead of in the mounted position. I already checked with my spare harness and it will allow me to reach the SMG ECU with the trans elevated on my trans jack when positioned next to the front wheel. That should help me figure what the rattle is during the bleeding. I should also be able to complete the clutch valve teach-in and trans pattern adapt. These can all be done without the trans mounted to the engine. The logic is that if I have failures then very easy to swap parts.
 

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That would be a great experiment position so you can get very close to what was ticking at the end of the R gear, do that test before you remove the actuator block exactly as it was on the car, then do the swap and observe the differences.
Yeah moving the shafts by hand will give me an idea if my shaft is bad or normal.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The click after R is engaged in the test seems to be the sound of the selector rod going back to N. The “creak” seems to be noise related to the high pressures, that a short sound after each gear think. I understand that during adaptation runs, the pressure is quite a bit higher than normal operation. Another reason why I want to see pressure in real time.

The sound of going to N is relatively quite because it’s not 60 bar of pressure acting on a piston to shove a selector rod to engage a gear set. I guess that’s the nice part of diagnosing these SMGs.

I also validated that it’s back in N also but turning the output shaft, again one of the reasons why I leave the shaft off. The sound matches when I’ve commanded gears manually, which is why i’m disturbed that it wouldn’t “adapt the trans”. I believe is just the sensors not recognizing the real world physical state.
 

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You were close to pass test, this SMG and software sensitivity scared me now especially that all gears have engaged manually!!!.
Try manual shifting again with INPA, look at the small windows for the position value that pops up, it will measure the required position and the deviation, check if the deviated value if low or high, I know i don't know what is high or low limit, but at least you observe something might explain why the actual gear shifting failed, simulate the same process starting from 1st gear till the 7th gear and back to R, observe the values for each gear. You may not capture the exact point where it failed, the failure happened after completing shifting to R then i think the software release it back to N but it doesn't show that.
I think you give up too early, I would try again and again including more clutch and block bleeding, commanding gear shifts to cycle the slave and again block bleeding then I try the test. Before doing this, try to raise the rear higher as TIS advised and start forcing the complete bleeding, cycling clutch with manual shifting, then bleeding again, then test, then repeat the process, assign cooling time for the motor between each time. Zip tie the output shaft to simulate load to prevent it from moving, just trying to satisfy this Aliens mentality software, we never know.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
From last Thursday to Sunday, I probably did a total of 20 bleed attempts on both the slave and actuator. 15 trans adaptations, 10 clutch valve adaptations, and 3 clutch-slip adaptations. In both INPA and ISTA. you are only seeing what I did on Sunday after I upped my recording and microphone game. I recorded a bunch of the same pass/fail stuff on iphone, but the specific screen and sound recording setup just works far better for me to see what is going on with the software, the noises, and capturing the data values. I didn't give up early.

Your video for flaco was extremely helpful since, it's pretty clear that the shifting test in INPA shows the driver's gear display and some values on the screen which I have no clue where they are coming from, but it's not the trans or the sensors! Therefore that is somewhat useless because it just proves that the computer is issuing a command and the gear display shows the COMMANDED gear/ Input value, NOT an output from the strip sensor! (we know from you that the trans is not even hooked up and there are no sounds).

This tends to indicate that that test is an OPEN loop test. I was under the assumption that this was a CLOSED loop test, meaning that indication of gear in the display and software was a result of the sensor feedback to the ECU which then display the gear on the console and screen. I'm not sure this was ever known by any of us (outside of the BMW engineers), but your video basically proved it.

This is leading me to believe that the reason why the complete trans adapt fails is because the gear sensor strip may not be seeing the proper values it's expecting because this is a closed loop calibration routine. Again, this is all regardless of the fact that the gearbox is actually in each gear, if the computer doesn't "sense" it's in gear then "it's not in gear". That would explain the half as*ed error message. I did attempt to repair the wiring on the gear sensor strip so, this makes sense.

I'm waiting for the loctite to arrive so I can reseal the actuator block when I swap it out, and it's been a bit too hot the past few days to dick around with this stuff. I can't raise the rear end only when the car is lifted as I have it but I think I have a better approach. I'm doing all my bleeding with the trans on the trans jack, since I'm opening up the hydraulics again. I can tilt the whole trans forward and backward quite a bit. I can bleed it 10 times like that, I have no concerns about draining the battery as I have a 50 amp power supply. I'm going to dig out my capacitor and hook it up which should address any voltage drops. Also I'm going to see if I'm able to log pressure while running INPA/ISTA.
 

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I like the terms open and close loop. I agree with you that the test was useless in open loop. Remember it is different story if we assumed the closed loop is the correct term, when the transmission was installed and everything was connected and pressure is available, performing the same test with INPA, I have had the closed loop result in red indicating the failure of engaging the R and 1st gears not green as in the video also I didn't get the R and 1st in the display. This means that in a closed loop the ECU does use the gear position sensor feedback data, it will show the deviation value, this is the value I wanted you to observe and see if it indicates any differences comparing with other gears for example. In manual mod gear engagement it is considered complete when the gear shift rod DISENGAGE ( back to it's neutral position) at the end before proceeding to the next one. pressure is another factor the SMG monitor during the process, if you could capture that. I thought of it but didn't know how when my transmission failed in gear engagement. Even when everything is disconnected the SMG ECU has a default readings, for example the pressure for the hydraulic pump is set to 70 psi not 0.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I use those terms specially, open vs closed loop operation is a term used in engineering to describe whether a system uses feedback (via sensors) to help it determine the output.

as far as the analog value thing,that just seems to be bogus info, I’m disappointed a diagnostic tool would show a value when it’s not hooked up. Perhaps is just reading out last stores data values from memory on the module.
Actually you should see what happens in this screen when you unplug the wire harness connections at the SMG ECU...
 

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May be they set those values for the testing in the production line when not all the system were put together.
The most important now is those values are live when they are connected, I have tested that. Before dropping the box I disconnected the wires from the gear position sensors and hooked it to the spare actuator block I have in the trunk to test if the ECU does read the changes, then I moved each piston by hand the ECU gave readings as it should for all the gears. Now I wanted to do that with the block that was actually installed on the transmission but until now I didn't, and the configuration is different as the transmission is not installed and it's other harnesses, but I expect it will also read the position of the pistons. I will do that next week for self learning.
Watch this video: everything is connected except the wiring harness for the actuator block, a spare actuator block plugged inline and me moving the pistons by hand.
Excuse the long video.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
there are generally 2 plugs to the actuator block, the one that connects the solenoids and the one that connects the gear strip sensor. I’m assuming based on the video and what I read, you have the gear strip sensor plugged in to your spare. BTW, those sensors are calibrated to the actuator block, you can’t just swap them from one block to another. You or the prior owner may have done exactly that and that may be what’s causing your issue.

Yes I see that it gives you read out of the piston’s position. But what does it show when the this also display. The problem is I don’t know that this tells us at which values the computer knows it is in gear or neutral, that’s what the calibration I describe in the prior paragraph. If you look at the sticker on top of the actuator block it says “hydroeinheit” that means hydraulic marriage and I assume the serial number ties back to a specific record of that at the factory.

We can’t see this read out during the adaptation routine, that’s why it’s a very limited in actual helpfulness for knowing why an adaption failed.
 

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When I inspected the wiring it does have a repair but it doesn't show any sign of someone has fiddled with.
 
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