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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi there!

I've done some searching and not found anything that exactly matches my problem, hence my post.

:1zhelp:

After a mild outing (it was quite wet!) on my first track day in my E39 last month, I noticed a noise coming from the left hand side front of the car when turning in to right hand corners. When I came in, I checked the front of the car / engine and couldnt see anything obvious.

Mentioned this to my friendly main dealer service manager and he thought that it might be the wheel bearing or power steering pump starting to go. So, they tested it and said no, bearing and pump all OK, BUT they had noticed some noise coming from the engine. So, stethoscope out / remove belts and they say noise coming from the oil pump region... (starting to get worried now).

So, they dropped the oil pump sump (didnt know there was a separate sump?) and visually checked the pump (i.e. didnt strip it down) and I was informed its OK. They then removed the oil filter / checked oil and apparently there are very fine bits of metal suspended :)confused: as to how they know its metal) in the oil and caught in the filter... :crying:

They are a bit unceratin as to the cause and have contacted BMW Central for some advice, which I'm still waiting to hear. I've not seen the oil / filter yet (I hope to go to them today)

Now, the only thing that I think could be relevant was that I had the oil / oil filter changed about 2-3 months ago (same dealer) and when I picked up the car, the engine was "tappety" and I said "thats not right" and they took it in and said "air lock" and it came back about 25 mins later running as before. So, did the "air lock" damage the engine???

So, after looking at a load of threads that make me want to weep, I've realised that it could be any of the following - rod bearings / oil pump / vanos / cyliners scored / camshaft wear / contact between timing chains and housing - I thought I would post here and see what the consensus is.

Car is 2001, UK origin and totally stock. Any thoughts/suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Thanks
Nick
 

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Send the oil out for analysis. Costs $25 at Blackstone Labs

They start by telling you what type of metals and other liquids are in the oil, plus the condition of the oil itself. Then if they find an unusually high amount of a particular material, based on what engine you have they can tell you what part is made of that material and thus which part is wearing away quicker than expected. Its a great starting point for a problem like yours. Better than starting with random tests that can costs hundreds or even worse throwing random parts at it that can costs thousands.

Good luck!

Analysis looks like this:

 

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My guess is chain guides as well.....
The main chain lower cover is close to the oil pump.If a chain guide went,the chain slaps against the cover...

Or Vanos bolts that backed out....

If it would be material from the rod bearings,the rod would have flown through the block already....

Is the noise there only at idle,or acceleration or deceleration?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the comments so far :)

Quick update after talking to the dealer earlier...

The metal particles are silver-coloured and non-magnetic, so suggests Aluminium or an alloy.

The oil pressure is well above minimum (at idle and ~2000 rpm) and is stable (measured with digital and analogue meters. I saw some footage of the analogue and the gauge never moved). They checked the oil pump in situ and there was no visible wear, so they are confident its not the pump.

I asked for more information on the noise, and it was described as a thrumming sound, that oscillates in intensity. I couldn't say if it changes on acceleration/deceleration but it is present at idle.

I sent them some links to threads below and they say the noise is nothing like them and they feel its none of these problems.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e3...k-tick-metal-oil-filter-need-help-please.html
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/165401-engine-ticking-1st-2-3000rpm.html
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e3...21290-s62-engine-failure-comments-please.html
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/142128-help-rod-bearing-problem.html

They still talking to BMW Central...
 

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If it is aluminium parts,it is something of the chain drive/Vanos...

Removing the bank1 valve cover and check the upper bank1 timing chain cover should show already that the chain marked it.

the distance between cover and chain is about 3-4mm,using a flash light,the marks of the chain are visible on the cover....
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If it is aluminium parts,it is something of the chain drive/Vanos...

Removing the bank1 valve cover and check the upper bank1 timing chain cover should show already that the chain marked it.

the distance between cover and chain is about 3-4mm,using a flash light,the marks of the chain are visible on the cover....
Thanks Vantaam5 - I'll pass on the information to the dealer and see what they come back with...
 

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Keep us updated!

BTW,if they want to remove the lower chain case,the cylinder heads and upper oil pan do not have to be removed(opposite what the TIS repair manual would tell them).Also engine can stay in the car....
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Keep us updated!

BTW,if they want to remove the lower chain case,the cylinder heads and upper oil pan do not have to be removed(opposite what the TIS repair manual would tell them).Also engine can stay in the car....
:eek:h:

Thank Christ that they dont have to do what the manual suggests....!!! I'll certainly pass that one on to them!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I doubt that they've done many tbh, as there aren't many M5's in circulation in Ireland. I've no idea what experience their senior tech has and I'll have to ask.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Does your dealer have experience with tearing down S62 engines/ fixing issues on those?
lol, tried to PM you and couldnt - only have 10 posts in nearly 10 years! Took longer than I thought to get my M5 :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Update on the saga...

Dealer stripped down oil pump and checked it - no unusual wear. Identified noise coming from valve beneath the oil filter housing - stripped it down and cleaned it. Flushed oil system out twice and no further metal found. Dealer suggest that I run the car for a 2k miles and then check the oil filter for any metal, so paid and took the car.

Taken it to an independant today (ex-Alpina mechanic) and he thinks it maybe the chain tensioners or vanos, as once the oil pressure is lost the rattle returns - will get it looked at in a week, so will keep you updated. Anyway, diagnosis seems to be the difficult part!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hi Rockd, sorry to hear you may be having a similar problem.

We're still in the diagnosis stage I'm afraid. We've had bad weather over here for a while (the whole of December, in fact), which has prevented significant progess. Couple that with Christmas/New Year and my lack of contact with my mechanic = cant provide an update. However, you're request is well timed, as it has prompted me to get in contact and find out what progress there is to report.

As soon as I know something, I'll let you know.

Nick
 
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Hi Rockd, sorry to hear you may be having a similar problem.

We're still in the diagnosis stage I'm afraid. We've had bad weather over here for a while (the whole of December, in fact), which has prevented significant progess. Couple that with Christmas/New Year and my lack of contact with my mechanic = cant provide an update. However, you're request is well timed, as it has prompted me to get in contact and find out what progress there is to report.

As soon as I know something, I'll let you know.

Nick
No, my problem was completely different, I just didn't realize it until I took the whole plenum off lol

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e3...623-new-years-day-nightmare-beast-fvcked.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Just read your thread - very sorry to read about the engine failure :sad3:

Nick
 
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