[David L]

PO deleted the SLS, and replaced with Dinan set up. I currently need to replace Dinan springs and from all investigating want to go with H&R sport. This said I do not seem to be able to get a straight answer whether the H&R sport springs will work in the rear with the SLS deleted. Anyone know, or have experience with this? TIA.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

H&R makes a SLS set which you don't want....Order the springs specifically for non SLS e34s like a 535

 

[petrvalo]

I have H&R sport springs on my car and they work great.
SLS has been deleted.
Paired with Bilstein sport shocks

 

[norrisd]

I have H&R springs on my 1991 M5. They are for 535i. I have Boge shocks. The set up from PO was a little too stiff for me.

 

[David L]

Thanks Blitzkrieg Bob and norrisd.

Today was my day for answers...after trying to reach Rob over at UUC for the past couple of weeks, I finally posted my question here. Lo and behold I tried Rob again today and talked to him just before receiving both of your responses (which mirrored Rob's).

If the SLS has been deleted you need to order the "standard" E34 H&R springs for the 525, 535 and 540 (H&R PN 50413), instead of the M5 w/ SL (PN 29579). Not only will I be able to use all 4 springs (instead of just the front), but they were also $100 cheaper...which Rob promptly "took' from me by selling me his "special of the day for 20% off". Glad to help him out, as he helped me out. Thanks again for helping me make the right decision.

 

[stija]

I actually purchased H&R 29579 springs. Installed the fronts and yet to install the rears. I did my research and even though some people advised me to purchase springs for 535 or 530 i went with the ones for the M5. The springs fit on the Koni rear shocks. I don't foresee any problems.

In fact, my opinion is that we should use m5 springs and not 535 and 530. Just an opinion, its not based on any research or fact. Just simple logic that the spring rate is probably a little different and is designed for our cars. Another difference is that the 535 rear springs lower more than the m5 springs.

Will report back once I drive the car, but again, I don't foresee any problems/issues.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

I actually purchased H&R 29579 springs. Installed the fronts and yet to install the rears. I did my research and even though some people advised me to purchase springs for 535 or 530 i went with the ones for the M5. The springs fit on the Koni rear shocks. I don't foresee any problems.

In fact, my opinion is that we should use m5 springs and not 535 and 530. Just an opinion, its not based on any research or fact. Just simple logic that the spring rate is probably a little different and is designed for our cars. Another difference is that the 535 rear springs lower more than the m5 springs.

Will report back once I drive the car, but again, I don't foresee any problems/issues.

This should prove interesting, since this kit is for the SLS system.

 

[mottati]

I actually purchased H&R 29579 springs. Installed the fronts and yet to install the rears. I did my research and even though some people advised me to purchase springs for 535 or 530 i went with the ones for the M5. The springs fit on the Koni rear shocks. I don't foresee any problems.

In fact, my opinion is that we should use m5 springs and not 535 and 530. Just an opinion, its not based on any research or fact. Just simple logic that the spring rate is probably a little different and is designed for our cars. Another difference is that the 535 rear springs lower more than the m5 springs.

Will report back once I drive the car, but again, I don't foresee any problems/issues.

the m5 springs don't lower as much because it was designed for the longer sls strut. It's also a much softer spring rate, from what i've read. Have a feeling the rear will sit kind of low without the support of the sls strut, but we'll see. Will be a good experiment to see what happens.

 

[stija]

I don't think that it was designed for SLS specifically. I could be wrong, but all e34 m5 cars either have sls or edc. This is the reason why the kit specifies that it is for cars with sls suspension (vs edc suspension). So in other words, it is designed for e34 m5 (with sls suspension not edc suspension). That is all that comment means. (Or so I think)

Do you have any factual proof that these rear springs are softer than 535 springs would be or is this just what you've heard from other people? Also, do you know for a fact that SLS struts are longer than 535 or 530 struts? If so, how much longer are they? I am asking because this could potentially be a problem and have I heard this before I would have researched it a bit more in depth.

Thanks.
PS: just called H&R to ask them if the rear spring rates are different and if the lenght/height is different. He couldn't answer either of the questions specifically but did say that they are going to be different springs. I think that much we knew. :3:

 

[mottati]

I don't think that it was designed for SLS specifically. I could be wrong, but all e34 m5 cars either have sls or edc. This is the reason why the kit specifies that it is for cars with sls suspension (vs edc suspension). So in other words, it is designed for e34 m5 (with sls suspension not edc suspension). That is all that comment means. (Or so I think)

Do you have any factual proof that these rear springs are softer than 535 springs would be or is this just what you've heard from other people? Also, do you know for a fact that SLS struts are longer than 535 or 530 struts? If so, how much longer are they? I am asking because this could potentially be a problem and have I heard this before I would have researched it a bit more in depth.

Thanks.
PS: just called H&R to ask them if the rear spring rates are different and if the lenght/height is different. He couldn't answer either of the questions specifically but did say that they are going to be different springs. I think that much we knew. :3:

no factual proof, just what i've read on the various forums over the years. I'm would imagine there is a real reason that everyone who deletes sls goes with 535 springs though.

 

[stija]

Check out this link for H&R springs on PelicanParts.

H&R Suspension System - Page 4

If you scroll down towards the bottom to look at M5 springs, you can notice how other springs for 745 or 760 are categorized as w/self-leveling, w/o self-leveling or w/self-leveling+EDC etc.

Furthermore, and please follow my logic for a second, if you look at these two springs:

<TABLE style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" class=tborder border=0 cellSpacing=1 borderColor=#111111 cellPadding=3 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=catalog_text10 noWrap>HR-29331</TD><TD class=catalog_text1_table vAlign=center align=left>

Sport Spring - BMW 745i (2002-2004), Notes: w/o self-level, Front: 1.3, Rear: 1 [More Info]​

</TD><TD class=catalog_text3>$330.08</TD><TD class=catalog_text4></TD></TR><TR><TD class=catalog_text10 noWrap>HR-29331-2</TD><TD class=catalog_text1_table vAlign=center align=left>

Sport Spring - BMW 745Li (2003-2004), Notes: w/self-lvl + EDC, 12, Front: 1.3, Rear: n/a [More Info]​

</TD><TD class=catalog_text3>$235.58</TD><TD class=catalog_text4></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

You can clearly see that there is distinction between two different springs for the same car when the car can come with or without self leveling. E34 m5 do not come without self levelling (of some sort, EDC or SLS), which is why there is only one part number for our cars (and it specifies that it is for cars w/ self leveling and not EDC). As you can see, the second kit doesn't even have rear springs, just fronts. This is because the car is EDC.

This is just me trying to make sense of this all since even H&R don't know what springs we should be using. They never designed springs to be put in an m5 when deleting sls so they have no clue what we should be using. The only issue with the springs I bought can be if motatti is right and SLS struts are like inches longer than Koni struts for e34 530-535. And Koni doesn't make rear struts for M5 w/o self leveling either hahahah. So we have to mix and match and hope for the best.

As soon as I take the rears off the car I will be able to measure and tell you if in fact there is a difference in length. If there is a difference in length, then we can discuss what I need to do next :haha2:

 

[stija]

no factual proof, just what i've read on the various forums over the years. I'm would imagine there is a real reason that everyone who deletes sls goes with 535 springs though.

I believe the reason is that the H&R 29579 kit says that it is for cars w/ self leveling and people think....geeee....i am deleting the SLS so i need springs for e34 without self leveling. I've been wrong before though......so you never know.

Why didn't you measure the SLS struts when you removed them with the new ones you were putting in? You could have had actual proof of any difference.

 

[mottati]

You can clearly see that there is distinction between two different springs for the same car when the car can come with or without self leveling. E34 m5 do not come without self levelling (of some sort, EDC or SLS), which is why there is only one part number for our cars (and it specifies that it is for cars w/ self leveling and not EDC). As you can see, the second kit doesn't even have rear springs, just fronts. This is because the car is EDC.

I think the reason there is a specific application for the M5 is because all US m5's have sls. Not sure if there still is, but there used to be a part number for H&R's for other e34's with SLS, that was different from e34's with sls.

H&R's application for e39 m5s also consist of front springs only (at least it did when i had one), not because the e39 had sls or edc, but because H&R did not make a significant change in spring rate or height on the rear of that car, so there was no reason to replace the springs. EDC acts on all 4 corners, so i don't think that's why the second kit has no rear springs.

Regarding my car, it had the sls deleted long before i bought it. I just changed to springs, to standard E34 H&R's.

 

[norrisd]

You could buy this set from my M5 for 600.00

 

[David L]

It would not surprise me if a manufacturer had the same exact product and sold it in two different boxes selling one for a higher price just because of perception (say one for an M series car, and another item for an non-"M" car).

Interestingly enough, I googled "same product different packaging different price" and it appears this is a common branding/marketing strategy

See attached execrpt from the article:
In the market place today, it is not strange to see the same product from the same organization with different prices and packages on the shelves of sales outlet. Due to high demand of a company's product or services, they do brand it differently for different classes of people to satisfy their desires, wants, needs and unfailingly personal ego.
Article Source: Marketing - Same Product, Different Prices

Dare I say "M" owners have egos? Not I, but I certainly want the best product for my car. Just some food for thought. I'll let you know how the install of the springs goes, and how they compare to my Dinan springs.

Ah, and one more example, a human hairbrush Vs a dog hairbrush, the human brush (exactly the same) sells for about 40% more.
Same Store, Same Product, Different Prices - The Consumerist

I believe the reason is that the H&R 29579 kit says that it is for cars w/ self leveling and people think....geeee....i am deleting the SLS so i need springs for e34 without self leveling. I've been wrong before though......so you never know.

Why didn't you measure the SLS struts when you removed them with the new ones you were putting in? You could have had actual proof of any difference.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

Just a hint to the burning question.... when my SLS was originally deleted and new rear shocks and springs were fitted by the dealer..They used 535 shocks and 535 m tech springs.

 

[stija]

Didn't know that EDC worked on all 4 corners motatti. Learn something every day

Norrisd, what kind of shock inserts are in there and what brand name are the coilover sleeves and springs? Who made that?

As far as the question goes, i never considered that angle David L. It actually makes sense and the H&R rep on the phone I talked to today kept saying that he doesn't have the spring rates (because there isn't an industry standard to measure the rate) but not to worry because in both instances cars are sedans and the difference in spring rates would be minimal. I think that is as close as you get to him saying that they may be the same. At first when he told me that I dismissed it as him pacifying me for not having any info to give me, but now I think that you could be very right.

Is it true that there is no industry standard to measure spring rates? Or does he not know what he is talking about? All I got from him is that they don't have spring rates for their springs nor does he have the length/height of one vs the other. In other words, useless.

Blitzkrieg Bob....did the dealer give you an explanation as to why they went with 535 springs??

Well time will tell. I hope i didn't make a boo boo. :hihihi: Realistically though, I think that I just spent an extra 80-100$ for no reason. Where were you David L when I needed ya!!?!

 

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

Blitzkrieg Bob....did the dealer give you an explanation as to why they went with 535 springs??

The logic was that the a 535 chassis was the embryo for the M5

 

[norrisd]

The kit I have for sale is from BC Racing. Don't know spring rates. Both front and rear can be adjusted for height.The rears can be adjusted for damping- 30 settings from firm to soft. The front uses Boge shocks. Don't know about the rear brand,no labels. BC racing has a web site with phone numbers. There is also a write up on this website about installation.
I freely admit, I know very little about the E34 M5 suspension. I have had the car for 3 months ( owned a E39 528i for past 6 years. I do know this, the ride with BC Racing was too stiff for the poor streets we have in New Orleans.Bought the car one day and drove 800 mi home the next.Coilovers were fine on interstate, just not what I wanted for driving here.I had a shop change the suspension to something a little softer.H&R springs and BMW shocks. I will never know how the ride was with original suspension, sure it was great.
All of this being said, I love my M5- the looks,the power and esp the sound.Will never be racing but do love to mash down on the pedal now and again. I'm going to enjoy my car and not worry too much.I will keep up on maintenance and fix things when needed. I have owned many cars,trucks,motorcycles,scooters and power boats over the past 50 years.The BMWs I own are hands down the best cars I have ever owned.
So Stija, enjoy! You can always change the set up if you don't like.

Dwight

 

[mottati]

Dare I say "M" owners have egos? Not I, but I certainly want the best product for my car. Just some food for thought. I'll let you know how the install of the springs goes, and how they compare to my Dinan springs.

dinan also used to sell two seperate rear spring sets for the e34 M5, one for cars that retain SLS, and one for cars with sls deleted. Maybe you could call dinan and ask what the difference is between the springs? They usually don't release much proprietary information, but since they no longer produce these parts, maybe they'll give you some info.