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Discussion Starter #1
It seems that buyers of the m5 are in a difficult situation; whilst the unexpected supply of the m5 will certainly help meet demand and keep prices reasonable for those of us who are still waiting for delivery there is an equal concern that too many m5s will mean the car will lose its exclusivity;i love the car because of its sheer driving pleasure but part of me also wants it to be something unique on the street;has bmw got its strategy wrong this time?

i also notice that many of the individual options on the m5 as displayed on bmws corporate site are also available for the 5 series;i am not sure how individual this is??
 

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Doesn't bother me one bit. I'm buying the M5 for its V10 and ability to be both a people-hauling daily-driver and a weekend track toy all in one package. That's the whole beauty of the M5: it's plain, understated and flies low on the radar. If I wanted exclusivity, I'd buy a maserati quattroporte. But as it turns out, I just want a sedan that kicks some *** and takes names.
 

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Agreed, I also considered the Maserati Quattroporte, but frankly the new M5 will kick its butt, cost 20K less and not stand out too much at the grocery market.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
a quick clarification..by unique i dont necessarily mean outlandish but rather that every fifth bmw is not a m5
 

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AbruzziBoy said:
Agreed, I also considered the Maserati Quattroporte, but frankly the new M5 will kick its butt, cost 20K less and not stand out too much at the grocery market.
I thought the quattraporte was under $100k
 

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I guess BMW could make it more exclusive by doubling the price. That will certainly keep the riff-raff from owning one. In contrast, if they developed some cool design/manufacturing technology to dramatically lower the price, it would become less exclusive. I would easily choose the latter scenario as my enjoyment of the car is unaffected by the number of others that share it.

Tom
 

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Rezf said:
I thought the quattraporte was under $100k
Well over $100k more like it.
The AMG image becomes more diluted for sure and I'm afraid BMW forced by marketing types will also go in that direction(with rumors of new X5 M V10)
 

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bernhtp said:
I guess BMW could make it more exclusive by doubling the price. That will certainly keep the riff-raff from owning one. In contrast, if they developed some cool design/manufacturing technology to dramatically lower the price, it would become less exclusive. I would easily choose the latter scenario as my enjoyment of the car is unaffected by the number of others that share it.

Tom
I fully agree with you, Tom. In addition, the percentage of buyers who value -- or even know about -- the performance characteristics of the M5 is very small. I don't think we need to worry about seeing one on each street. Just look at how many more 525s and 530s there are than 545s. If someone really needs a car that no one else in town has, he can choose (and pay for) a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston, or something similar. The rest of us will gladly save a couple hundred grand and have a car that compares favorably with those, and the only cost is seeing it more often.
 

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absent said:
Well over $100k more like it.
The AMG image becomes more diluted for sure and I'm afraid BMW forced by marketing types will also go in that direction(with rumors of new X5 M V10)
You said it brother! A pet peeve of mine for some time. Do we really need an AMG variant of just about every car MB makes. I just saw a release of the new AMG R class! I wanted to throw up.
 

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I don't mind having the M5 priced at a relatively 'reasonable' level so more people, especially the true enthusiasts, can enjoy them without breaking the bank.

However, one of my MAJOR pet peeves over the last few years is how M GmbH has been diluting the value of genuine M cars by offering packages that allow mass consumption models to mimic the M cars.

It started with the E36 M3 (which I still own) and has continued throughout the model range since the late '90s. But, I try to feel flattered when I see a 318is playing 'Mr. Dress-Up' when I drive a real M car and it's a bit of a game to be able to identify an aftermarket M car.

But this isn't as bad as those Pontiac Fiero based kit cars playing pretend of a Ferrari! :haha:
 

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Somebody dressing up his car to look like a real M does not bother me,what bothers me ,is making a people hauler,soccer mom minivan like the new MB R into an AMG.
And according to some recent rumors BMW would like to go in same direction.
 

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The simple solution... offer the full Individual program in the US.... how many would jump at the ability to set their car apart from the rest?

Offer the program, train the dealers on it....
 

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royk said:
I don't mind having the M5 priced at a relatively 'reasonable' level so more people, especially the true enthusiasts, can enjoy them without breaking the bank.

However, one of my MAJOR pet peeves over the last few years is how M GmbH has been diluting the value of genuine M cars by offering packages that allow mass consumption models to mimic the M cars.

It started with the E36 M3 (which I still own) and has continued throughout the model range since the late '90s. But, I try to feel flattered when I see a 318is playing 'Mr. Dress-Up' when I drive a real M car and it's a bit of a game to be able to identify an aftermarket M car.

But this isn't as bad as those Pontiac Fiero based kit cars playing pretend of a Ferrari! :haha:
...keep in mind that most people who buy an M car for the most part do it for status, i think BMW is very aware of this and that is why they offer the M-design packages,... it does not dilute M whatsoever, it probably allows M to justify the huge development costs when looked at the actual number of cars they will have to sell to break-even, (if they actually do, as no one really knows since they will not share that info)... also, many enthusiasts, like myself, enjoy the design cues of the M aero packages, but would never be able to use the power of an M5 so there would not be a reason to buy one.

Think of it like this, if BMW M didnt offer a design package between the normal E60 and the M5 E60, many, including myself, would just look to aftermarket resellers like Hamman, Hartge, ACS, etc to mod the exterior and/ or interior, and BMW M would lose out on this vast amount of revenue. I think it is a very smart decision and the sales of M-sports would probably support this continued trend...besides, anyone who cares enough to know what an M5 is, easily knows the difference when they are seen, or heard.... :M5thumbs:
 

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m630 said:
...keep in mind that most people who buy an M car for the most part do it for status,
If I wanted status, I would buy a Mercedes, Ferarri, Aston Martin or Maserati. Most here prefer M cars for their performance and many for their unpretentious and low-key design. Some even go the extra step of having their cars debadged for even more stealth. No, if you want to maximize the status/price ratio, M is one of the last places you go.

Tom
 

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m630 said:
...keep in mind that most people who buy an M car for the most part do it for status
If BMW had come to this conclusion, it would make the M models much more visually distinctive instead of limiting the exterior cues to discrete trim pieces that most casual observers either would not recognize or whose significance they would not appreciate.
 

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bernhtp said:
If I wanted status, I would buy a Mercedes, Ferarri, Aston Martin or Maserati. Most here prefer M cars for their performance and many for their unpretentious and low-key design. Some even go the extra step of having their cars debadged for even more stealth. No, if you want to maximize the status/price ratio, M is one of the last places you go.

Tom
...in this community, yes, most are here for performance reasons, but for the most part, only reasonably weathly individuals can afford an M5, and the fact is that most go to executives who just love to tell people they have an M5,
.... the above post I originally responded to points this out clearly and it has been echoed many times before, so the only reason a person would want the M5 to look completely unlike any other car the BMW puts out would be to exactly say, Im an M5, and nothing looks like me, ie 'status'...
 

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BMW has changed little from the base series car for M cars that is not related to performance, e.g.,

- wider tires: traction
- flared fenders: fits the bigger wheels
- dual (quad) exhausts: better breathing
- bigger radiator opening: better cooling
- oval mirrors: better aerodynamics

Except for a small ///M emblem or two (and maybe the side grills), BMW does nothing extra to make M cars visually distinct and add "status," to use your word. $500 on the aftermarket gets you way more bling than $20,000+ extra to get the M version for those conscious about letting the world know.

Tom
 

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...you left out the full body aero kit, which is the most visably noticable difference between an M and a normal E60, ...and is the point brought out originally above...i agree with you that Ms are designed subtly and I like that about them
... what I dont agree with is when some say that BMW should not offer M-sport kits because they look too much like an M5 for example, that makes me think that some are buying for just status, otherwise why would they care if an M-sport looks similar to an M5?...jmho :)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
m630 said:
...in this community, yes, most are here for performance reasons, but for the most part, only reasonably weathly individuals can afford an M5, and the fact is that most go to executives who just love to tell people they have an M5,
.... the above post I originally responded to points this out clearly and it has been echoed many times before, so the only reason a person would want the M5 to look completely unlike any other car the BMW puts out would be to exactly say, Im an M5, and nothing looks like me, ie 'status'...
A clarification on the my interpretation of status as posted in my original thread I am referring to the fact that part of the charm of owning an m5 is that it is something that is only appreciated and understood by a few rather than being an outright status symbol- think of it more as a symbol of really appreciating cars for what they are rather than one of just being able to afford it
 

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m630 said:
...in this community, yes, most are here for performance reasons, but for the most part, only reasonably weathly individuals can afford an M5, and the fact is that most go to executives who just love to tell people they have an M5,
.... the above post I originally responded to points this out clearly and it has been echoed many times before, so the only reason a person would want the M5 to look completely unlike any other car the BMW puts out would be to exactly say, Im an M5, and nothing looks like me, ie 'status'...
Well, since it was my post you originally responded to, I'll make the leap that your comment about the need for status with the ownership of an M car is directed at me. But no offence taken, I'd be lying if I said that I don't enjoy the status of owning an M car.

But what you wouldn't be able to discern about me from reading my post is that for me, status is not the raison d'etre of owning an M car, merely a by-product. If you actually knew me, you'd know that I am a committed enthusiast of the Roundel marque who has owned 6 BMWs in the last 10 years; that I instruct at BMW Club driving schools in Canada and the U.S. and love driving on a track. You'd also know that I passed up on a E46 M3 so that I can keep the E36 M3 and make it my dedicated track car (and thereby putting status aside by keeping an 'older' M car)

But you did help me make a point though about those who want their cars to look like M cars, that they do it for status FIRST, and not necessarily for the love of driving or for the appreciation of the engineering of an M car. I like the M cars because I like driving M cars.

And lastly, you are absolutely right to remind me that BMW is ultimately an entity whose goal is to increase profits and that's why they choose to widen its offering of M parts on non-M cars. I often forget that, especially when I see their slogan of "The Ultimate Driving Machine" where the word "driving" is featured so prominently and followed by the word "machine", and not just a car. In reality, it would be more accurate to call BMW "The Ultimate Marketing Machine" or "The Ultimate Status Machine" given its corporate goal of profit maximization! cherrsagai
 
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