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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This is the service history on a 43k miles 02 M5 I am looking at getting

2353mi - 21210055 Complete clutch Stick-slip <-- what is this in particular?
17,472mi - 64112779 Blower output stage, front incorrect connection /contact
41,086mi - 11140248 End cover on crankcase Leaking
41,099mi - 11531348 Coolant return pipe Leaking
41,099mi - 32410748 Suction line from oil tank to pump Leaking

Few other minors ones (battery died and replaced, some door foam replaced), but this is really it, aside from all the scheduled maintenance.

Car is CPO'd until 10/31/2007 and original warranty expired 10/31/2005, again 43k miles and the dealer is asking $47,900. I think I can get him to $47,000 or $46,500.

2 owners, 1 personal that lasted only about 3500 mi and 9 months, and then a commercial lease that lasted about 20months and 38,400mi. Pictures look real clean inside and out.

It's out of towm from me, but will have a local test drive it today. Everything sounds good to me so far.

Anyone have any reasons that I shouldn't go after it?
 

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HDClown said:
This is the service history on a 43k miles 02 M5 I am looking at getting

2353mi - 21210058 Complete clutch Slipping <-- what is this in particular?
17,472mi - 64112779 Blower output stage, front incorrect connection /contact
41,086mi - 11140248 End cover on crankcase Leaking
41,099mi - 11531348 Coolant return pipe Leaking
41,099mi - 32410748 Suction line from oil tank to pump Leaking

Few other minors ones (battery died and replaced, some door foam replaced), but this is really it, aside from all the scheduled maintenance.

Car is CPO'd until 10/31/2007 and original warranty expired 10/31/2005, again 43k miles and the dealer is asking $47,900. I think I can get him to $47,000 or $46,500.

2 owners, 1 personal that lasted only about 3500 mi and 9 months, and then a commercial lease that lasted about 20months and 38,400mi. Pictures look real clean inside and out.

It's out of towm from me, but will have a local test drive it today. Everything sounds good to me so far.

Anyone have any reasons that I shouldn't go after it?
Has the clutch been replaced? If it is the original clutch, have it replaced. Have the front pads been replaced? You might also check to see if all of the recall notices have been addressed.

Mark
 

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1) I assume you know the "local" who is going to drive the car, and trust their judgement?

2) You absolutely need to have a reputable mechanic (referred by someone on this board) perorm a thorough PPI.

Good luck! Steve

HDClown said:
This is the service history on a 43k miles 02 M5 I am looking at getting

2353mi - 21210058 Complete clutch Slipping <-- what is this in particular?
17,472mi - 64112779 Blower output stage, front incorrect connection /contact
41,086mi - 11140248 End cover on crankcase Leaking
41,099mi - 11531348 Coolant return pipe Leaking
41,099mi - 32410748 Suction line from oil tank to pump Leaking

Few other minors ones (battery died and replaced, some door foam replaced), but this is really it, aside from all the scheduled maintenance.

Car is CPO'd until 10/31/2007 and original warranty expired 10/31/2005, again 43k miles and the dealer is asking $47,900. I think I can get him to $47,000 or $46,500.

2 owners, 1 personal that lasted only about 3500 mi and 9 months, and then a commercial lease that lasted about 20months and 38,400mi. Pictures look real clean inside and out.

It's out of towm from me, but will have a local test drive it today. Everything sounds good to me so far.

Anyone have any reasons that I shouldn't go after it?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
MAH said:
Has the clutch been replaced? If it is the original clutch, have it replaced. Have the front pads been replaced? You might also check to see if all of the recall notices have been addressed.

Mark
The service history indicates no open campaigns.

I don't know if the clutch or front pads have been replaced. I can't lookup the MP defect codes. When I go to the dealer, I can talk to service for specific information on what has been performed.

They car is going through CPO check still, so some things may get replaced, I just don't have that detail yet.

Talking a dealer into just replacing a clutch because I want it done isn't going to be easy. The have some other people interested in this car, so if I'm pushing them on a clutch job, and someone else doesn't care, they are going to tell me to walk. There is original warranty to cover the brakes, so I'm sure I could get that done before that is up.

1) I assume you know the "local" who is going to drive the car, and trust their judgement?
Yes, I do know them. They have driven some M5's before and his mother owns a 7 series which ahd VANOS fail, so he is familiar with some hot ticket items to check.

2) You absolutely need to have a reputable mechanic (referred by someone on this board) perorm a thorough PPI.
If someone has someone they can refer to me in the Ft. Lauderdale area, I'll see if I can get that arranged, but I don't know if I'll have time, if I really want to work the deal.
 

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Hope this helps... the average blackbook retail is $49.3, wholesale $44.1 and average loan value $46.3. try to get close to wholesale. Ask to speak with the last owner.

I brought a 2001 in April for wholesale as the Cadillac dealership had the car for over one month. I worked them hard and brought the vehicle for $38, they were asking $44.9.
 

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MP codes are maintanance plan, just normal services, covered by the full maintanance program.

It sounds like the clutch has been replaced. THe repaired oil and coolant leak wouldnt' bother me. If the customer had complained about a sliping clutch and it has not been replaced, that would be a problem!
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #7
cherrsagai
mottati said:
MP codes are maintanance plan, just normal services, covered by the full maintanance program.

It sounds like the clutch has been replaced. THe repaired oil and coolant leak wouldnt' bother me. If the customer had complained about a sliping clutch and it has not been replaced, that would be a problem!
Mike
Clutch replaced at 2500 miles? Seems odd. It's also the only service on the history not performed at the originating dealer, like all the other service.

At the same time, this was also noted:

00655801 E39 E46 E53 Program ALPINE CD53 radio

Car was in for Tuesday through Friday for these 2 items listed. Long time for a radio programming and a dealer to dismiss a clutch slip problem, so maybe it was. I'll have to talk with service for the actions performed.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Just realized and copy/pasted the worng code on the clutch, it was this one:


21210055 Complete clutch Stick-slip
 

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The pads need to be 50% or greater to pass a CPO.

Tough call on getting a clutch changed just for the heck of it. Of course have a qualified mechanic see if he can feel any slip... maybe send gsfent a PM- he's up in west palm, 45mi N of FLL, for a mechanic recommendation. Careful with those FL dealers.... Maybe have them agree (in writing) to a statement that 'if clutch fails within 10k miles it will be replaced at NC'.. this is over an above the CPO that might or might not cover it. (if the car was staying there, they could just 'fix it with cpo' by submitting a claim that says 'clutch failed, no abuse'...but since you will take the car to another dealer it is more difficult...)

Seems like a good price. That cpo adds significant value at that mileage. Of course you always want it cheaper, but at some point you just want to drive. :)

A
 

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HDClown said:
cherrsagai Clutch replaced at 2500 miles? Seems odd.
i drove a car at the m5 driving experience (the traveling one that was going around the country about 2 years ago) that had a clutch completely fail (i.e. pedal out, car not moving) with under 400 miles on it!
Wonder what happened to that fleet... CPO? I don't think it'd be hard to trash a clutch in 2500 miles for someone who wasn't completely competent with a manual trans.
Mike
 

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Sounds like a few minor things other than that clutch issue.

I also wonder how many clutches have failed within 3000 miles on M5's. Lets face it, unless your in the know about this issue, you will be tempted as a new owner to do things with it you otherwise would not do. Who in their right mind would think you can fry a clutch on one of these cars doing something a Mustang can take in stride?

If it was replaced, not an issue, sounds like it was. Now about that second driver...............????? Definitely need an inspection, particularly from someone knowledgable concerning clutch operation.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Pete said:
Sounds like a few minor things other than that clutch issue.

I also wonder how many clutches have failed within 3000 miles on M5's. Lets face it, unless your in the know about this issue, you will be tempted as a new owner to do things with it you otherwise would not do. Who in their right mind would think you can fry a clutch on one of these cars doing something a Mustang can take in stride?

If it was replaced, not an issue, sounds like it was. Now about that second driver...............????? Definitely need an inspection, particularly from someone knowledgable concerning clutch operation.
I spoke with the person who drove the car. He looked it over for an hour and a half and test drove for about 15 minutes. Said the clutch felt great, so did the breaks. Everything under the hood looked real good. Interor looked as good as could be for 42k miles. Exterior was good overall

Exterior was good, but there are some cosmetic things. I've attached a few pictures

First, the chrome rims, obviously not OEM. There is oxidation and chroming coming off. I don't want chrome rims, but I'd deal with them for now. I could probably get them refinished to an OEM spec for about $500 for the set. THe tires are pretty new Pilot Sports.




Next, a scratch on the rear tow hook cover, and some scratch around it. Evidence to me the car was towed. This is possibly from when the battery completely died on the car at 41k miles. The white stuff on the trim was around the entire car but my guy said it rubbed off without any effort. It's either soap scum or wax I'm guessing.



And lastly, a very large scratch in one of the doors



The scratch above fingered nailed good, seemed like it was through a few layers. It's pretty ugly in the closeup, probably not the greatest in person in a bright sunny day. It was overcast when looked at today and the guy overlooked it at first, but then it was obvious on second closer look.

Salesman told me he won't budge on 47,900. Says its 1500 under their reserve price on eBay already, car has just been listed for 3rd time after 10 days with a highest bid of 44k.

I can probably make him do 47,000, just wondering if this car is really worth that. My situation requires me to do a trade-in (with an appropriate offer) at a dealer in FL in order to save thousands in tax. I have no 2nd car to drive, so I can't sell my M3 (probably make enough to cover the tax savings from a trade-in deal) and then go and find the right M5.
 

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Ard said it best, "at some point you just want to drive".

If you have no qualms at refinishing the wheels, then the couple of hundred someone might charge you to shoot those paint flaws should be no big deal.

I have chrome wheels on my metallic silver M5, and I ALWAYS get positive comments from them. True, they are a bit more maintenance, but I can clean them now in about 20 minutes. Recently I gave them a coat of Carnuba wax, and that made it very quick (10 minutes) to wipe off the brake dust from them.

Sounds like a fair price to me for an '02 with those miles. Just pull the trigger, drive, smile and dont look at the prices next year. :)
 

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make sure you are comfortable with the wheels. You should verify they are oe bmw... ie BMW wheels with BMW partnumbers that got chromed. I was quoted 180 to 220 per wheel to remove old PAINT and refinish. removing chrome is a different story.

If they are not factory, or they do not have BMW OE finish, how can they cpo?

http://www.bmwtips.com/tipsntricks/tips_pages/cpochecklist.htm

(Rhetorical question as we know dealers will cpo anything that rolls)

If all else checks out, you can 'drop the hammer' on them closer to end of the game. If it turns out they cannot cpo a car with corrosion on the rims, or refinished, or non OE then bringing that up might make them realize they cannot just sell it like that to someone else- it is a BMW thing, not a you thing. new rims are around1800- $2k at their cost (guestimate).

Pricing at 44k matches what folks been saying here. Never figured out how a trade in ducks the tax issue- must be a 'car dealer political contribution' thing...

My interiors are always spotless. Come check out a Q45 I have with 245k miles... little wear on the drivers seat bolster. Thats it.

The cosmetic scratches are just that- panel needs refinishing if you want to remove.
Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Thank you for that link. I do see an option for WHEELS and a check box for meets BMW Guidlines and standards. I Cannot see how that rims meets standards in any way, and I will use that in my argument.

When you say, "The cosmetic scratches are just that- panel needs refinishing if you want to remove." you are referring to the large scratch on the door? That's going to be repairable back to a near to OEM finish w/o much difficulty, you think?

EDIT-- BTW the tax thing is in FL, maybe in other states as well. You take the trade in value given and deduct it from the sale price on the new car, and only pay tax on the remainder.

ard said:
make sure you are comfortable with the wheels. You should verify they are oe bmw... ie BMW wheels with BMW partnumbers that got chromed. I was quoted 180 to 220 per wheel to remove old PAINT and refinish. removing chrome is a different story.

If they are not factory, or they do not have BMW OE finish, how can they cpo?

http://www.bmwtips.com/tipsntricks/tips_pages/cpochecklist.htm

(Rhetorical question as we know dealers will cpo anything that rolls)

If all else checks out, you can 'drop the hammer' on them closer to end of the game. If it turns out they cannot cpo a car with corrosion on the rims, or refinished, or non OE then bringing that up might make them realize they cannot just sell it like that to someone else- it is a BMW thing, not a you thing. new rims are around1800- $2k at their cost (guestimate).

Pricing at 44k matches what folks been saying here. Never figured out how a trade in ducks the tax issue- must be a 'car dealer political contribution' thing...

My interiors are always spotless. Come check out a Q45 I have with 245k miles... little wear on the drivers seat bolster. Thats it.

The cosmetic scratches are just that- panel needs refinishing if you want to remove.
Good luck
 

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HDClown said:
...and then a commercial lease that lasted about 20months and 38,400mi.
This would cause me great concern. Considerable miles by someone or some folks who didn't have an ownership interest in the car. Additionally, it bothers me that this salesman tried to convince you that the wheels were a factory option. If he lied once, I'd be concerned about the other representations.

TexasM5
 

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Discussion Starter #17
TexasM5 said:
This would cause me great concern. Considerable miles by someone or some folks who didn't have an ownership interest in the car.

TexasM5
Just realized I added way wrong. It was actually 33 months over 38,400 mi (1160/mo), which is an average.

Being that it was a commercial lease does concern me as well, but the BMW Service History indicates the customer name as an individual, not a company, so perhaps it was just done that was for a tax writeoff on a personal business.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Anyone else care to offer their opinions on this car? The dealer wil not come down from 47,900. I've thrown pretty much everything at them that I can think of.

I told them I expect the wheels to be repaired to like new condition, be it having them rechromed or repaired, or putting OE M5 rims on, either one I will be happy with. I will have an answer on this Monday or Tuesday

Otherwise, the car is as-is for 47,500. See the above pictures for the key areas of cosmetic issue. There is one other touched up 1" scratch on driver side door as well

Recap of car:
2002 LMB/LMB M5
42,730k mi (roughly)
100% options as indicated on service history
Factoey warranty until 10/31/2005
CPO until 10/31/2007

Car is has been a South FL car all of it's life with the original owner for roughly 3500mi and 9 months, and the second owner being a commerical lease for roughly 33 mo and 38,400 miles.

All scheduled maintenace has been performed, and the only non maintenace program issues I've listed in my original post.

I had someone inspect this car for 1 1/2 hours with test drive. He said, aside from the scratches and the wheels, the exterior looked great, no signs of overspray or a repair. Interior was great. Basically as good as you can get cosmetically for 40k miles on a car. He has driven 2 other M5 and he said this one drove great, very tight, very responsive, mo braking issues (did a few 100mph to 40mph stops) and he did a clutch test and saw no slippage.

So, I've had a few guys tells me the price is too high, and some others tell me it seems fair. I've been looking all over the country for something similar as a price reference and cannot come up with some of the great prices people are telling me I can find. Are they REALLY out there? Or is it one of those thigns you have to look every day for months nad get lucky?
 

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I've given you my opinion, but just a comment on the question "are they really out there"...

Of course the dealer bought that car from someone as a trade or lease return. Had you connected with that seller, well, you'd save a few k.

My seller came down 5k from asking- but he'd been trying to sell for 4 months with no luck- his lease payment was $1400 each month- he was motivated.. and I found a dealer to cpo the car as part of the deal. I got very lucky. I shopped hard for 5-6 months. There are no guarantees.

They are out there but it is difficult and you need a bit of luck. Also, if it is really true that the cash value of your trade it is not taxable, your universe is then FLA.. that may be the 2-3k offset that you'd save with private party. Also, an aftermarket warranty is 3k - 3700... a cpo is 1500... again buying private and adding an aftermarket will eat into the savings.

If you can live with the scratches, make them fix the wheels and be happy! (My tack with the dealer would be "I am willing to meet your price for a cpo car, but the car must meet BMW standards for a cpo car- those aftermarket chromed, corroding wheels do not meet BMW standards. Let's ask BMWNA if they do...")

A

PS Haven't the wife said "will you buy the da mn thing already?!?"

:)
 
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