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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all, some advice if possible?

I have been unfortunate enough to suffer the dreaded S85 crank rod bearing failure on my 2006 E60 M5. Having had the crank inspected, my only options are buying a second hand engine or rebuild the current unit. The spun / failed bearing on cylinder 7 dumped its debris into the Vanos oil pump which wrecked it, plus the crank has lost approx 1.5mm off it so no oversized bearings will accommodate the shortfall.

I have been quoted £7.5k for a complete rebuild that includes new OEM crank, all ten rod bearings and a new Vanos oil pump + soleniods. What could I expect to fetch if, after the rebuild, I sell it privately? I would hope to achieve between £20 - 25k but I am just guessing. The car has 87,000 miles and is in really good condition inside and out, so before I commit to these works I'd welcome any advice / opinions.

Thanks all.
 

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Personally I would not bother rebuilding it. Scrap it and move on.

There's no way to properly remove all the debris completely unless you replace pretty much everything the oil touches and even then, it's tough to get all the channels in the block clean. The risk is just too great, unless they warranty the new motor specifically against failure due to metal shavings.
 

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Sell what parts you can and buy a new engine! They're to be had for less than the rebuild price you listed.
 

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You need to talk to the engine builder since he has eyes on the damage done.

I would ask him if there are signs the rest of the engine was starved for oil, perhaps due to blocked oil pick up.

The Vanos out let filter and oil filter should keep the contamination to the rest of the engine to a minimum, but one has to check and look for before going ahead with rebuild
 

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I gutted for you.. sorry to here this.. did you have any symptoms/problems before, or did it just let go...?
I presume you didn't have any warranty to cover this.. how would this stand with your insurance company. is there a way it would be covered, as this failure would right the car off... might be worth investigating.
I know you dont want to here this, but I personally think its border line to break the car for spares, unless you could get a pay out or a guaranteed replacement engine, maybe from Troy.. if he ships to the UK....?

I looked at a 2006, just over a year ago near Colchester, which had a new engine at 60k and was for sale on 89k.. this was in a independent dealer for £18000..
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks DSKdan, no there were no warning signs at all. Took it up to 8,000rpm in 'M' mode and it switched into 'reduced power' mode. Only when the garage did diagnostics did it reveal itself to be destroyed Vanos oil pump due to debris shot into the oil from the shell casing failure. Good idea to query the insuranc ecompnay though, thanks for the advice.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
We sell 0-mile S85 long blocks for $10,000 and warranty them for 3-years/45k miles. If interested let me know. s85 V10 #109 was sold yesterday.


Sent from AutoGuide.com App
Hi Troy, interested in how you would ship a new unit to the UK (costs etc). What is required, and how would the warranty work via the UK / USA?

Thanks.
 

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Troy will treat you right.. He's the man when it comes to used parts for our beloved cars.
 
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Question - for those of us that haven't had rod bearing failures yet - and are out of warranty - should we preemptively pay to have the sump off our engines and the rod bearings replaced? Is there a new design / material for the bearings that are not likely to fail that we can "upgrade" to?
 

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Question - for those of us that haven't had rod bearing failures yet - and are out of warranty - should we preemptively pay to have the sump off our engines and the rod bearings replaced? Is there a new design / material for the bearings that are not likely to fail that we can "upgrade" to?
Noone have a view on this?
 

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Question - for those of us that haven't had rod bearing failures yet - and are out of warranty - should we preemptively pay to have the sump off our engines and the rod bearings replaced? Is there a new design / material for the bearings that are not likely to fail that we can "upgrade" to?
Has anyone noticed I always have an opinion (goes for any subject in world not just this forum)?

The fact that BMW has not produced any technical service bulletins or campaigns addressing this problem, speaks volumes to me.

First of all they are too smart a Company to not know there is a problem, then knowing the problem they are smart enough to figure out a solution.

I speculate they fear class action, thus do not want to admit to a design issue which would become public if a TSB was issued.

They instead have quietly changed the bearing design and allowed (presumably the northern folks) a thinner oil to be used.

BMW is particularly susceptible to class actions since the instrument maintenance monitor takes away blame from the user in not having to determine if a severe or normal service schedule is needed (all other manufacturers can avoid accountability via this convenient grey area)

So the answer is yes we do need to spend on preemptive parts and service, no choice since without factory help understanding the root causes is far from complete.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Most definitely, I was clueless as to this fault. The irony is that my engine is now wrecked due to a £45.00 bearing failure. I had no idea that this was a common fault but am now paying the price, both figuratively and literally. My beloved M5 is now being mothballed due to lack of both engine and confidence. Pre 2008 models will, at some point, suffer so replace the rod bearings ASAP.
 

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Most definitely, I was clueless as to this fault. The irony is that my engine is now wrecked due to a £45.00 bearing failure. I had no idea that this was a common fault but am now paying the price, both figuratively and literally. My beloved M5 is now being mothballed due to lack of both engine and confidence. Pre 2008 models will, at some point, suffer so replace the rod bearings ASAP.
Just dont want any misleading information here. What this member should have posted was:

Most definitely, I was clueless as to this fault. The irony is that my engine is now wrecked due to a £45.00 bearing failure. I had no idea that this was a common fault but am now paying the price, both figuratively and literally. My beloved M5 is now being mothballed due to lack of both engine and confidence. ALL E60 M5 models will, at some point, suffer so replace the rod bearings ASAP.

Fixed! Your welcome.

Furthermore, when you spin a motor over 9 grand producing over 100 HP per liter, bearings are going to ware out much quicker than common engines. S54, S65, S85, ect... I don't care if the bearings are carved from unicorn horn than treated with leprechaun jiz before being installed by Chuck Norris. They will never last as long as bearings in your sisters Honda Civic....
 
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Discussion Starter #17
I agree. My spun bearing sheared 1.5mm off the crankshaft journal which, in engineering terms, may as well be one and a half miles. Exploratory work alone cost me three and half grand just to confirm my engine was wrecked. C'est la vie, I still retain the car, perhaps a project in the distant future?
 

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Question - for those of us that haven't had rod bearing failures yet - and are out of warranty - should we preemptively pay to have the sump off our engines and the rod bearings replaced? Is there a new design / material for the bearings that are not likely to fail that we can "upgrade" to?
So the answer is yes we do need to spend on preemptive parts and service, no choice since without factory help understanding the root causes is far from complete.
Furthermore, when you spin a motor over 9 grand producing over 100 HP per liter, bearings are going to ware out much quicker than common engines. S54, S65, S85, ect... I don't care if the bearings are carved from unicorn horn than treated with leprechaun jiz before being installed by Chuck Norris. They will never last as long as bearings in your sisters Honda Civic....
There are lots of threads about when to do your bearings but not much argument about the need. To put it in perspective, I was chatting with my friend who has won 2 SCCA National Championships over the years about his race motors. Granted these were V-8's kicking lots of horsepower and being abused but it is a little window into the type of motor we all have. He sent his motors back for rebuilds (if they made it that far) at no more than 600 miles. Seems like 50,000 miles for ours is more than reasonable. Just wish BMW had made it part of the standard maintenance. Would have saved several people lots of headaches.

Now back to the regularly scheduled programming - sorry OP.

:cheers:

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Speaking from painful experience, do not neglect this common fault. What may seem like a large expense will, ultimately, prolong your S85. Speculate to accumulate. I challenge you to find a non cat d engine, fitted, for less than ten grand.
 

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Bmw had some of us thinking 15K miles is a good time to change the oil in our cars. I don't think so. Racer are the only ones using W60 oil to fill the gap between bearings and moving parts due to looser tolerances in their race engines. This V10 is a slightly detuned race engine therefore it should have been treated like such. I change my car's oil between 5000 to 7000 miles. Just because I know it a race engine. I m now at 90000 miles and still beating the sh$t out of it every chance I get. There is no better feeling then then the sound my beast make going through the west rock turnel 4th gear 7k rpm. What a .rush. NOW if you want to do a bearing job, by all means. It will only help. This beasts are high maintenance in case you did know.
 
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