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There is a lot of internet discussion on how bad the N63 engine is and a lawsuit associated with that. Basically it seems that it is a fundamental problem of heat management with the placement of the turbos and the catalytic converter all in close vicinity and the "hot vee" of the engine. Here is one article, but there are many others:
https://www.eeuroparts.com/blog/9654/bmw-n63-hot-vee-hot-garbage/
If this is a fundamental design flaw of the hot-vee engine, why don't we hear it on the S63? I would imagine that with higher horsepower, the S63 engine would run just as hot if not hotter and would fundamentally be inclined to cook its valve stem seals, carbon on the intake valves, etc. Did BMW fundamentally address this issue on the S63 and not N63, or is it that there are so many fewer S63 engines that we don't hear much about it as there isn't a critical mass of cases to support a lawsuit as in the N63 case? Perhaps any engineers want to chime in if you are in the know.
 

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I dont think its a heat issue
Its a design issue
The newer n63 motors dont have that issue

We actually got a new n63 motor from bmw on our x5 and it was about 3 yrs out of warranty
I was 2nd owner and low k and full bmw history

It was smoking a lot and timing chain stretched and cyclinders out of round
Also did new vac pump and injectors and pcv system
 

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I'm not aware of any rod bearing hysteria for the E39s. I thought that was all on the V10s.

Anecdote: I've had my E39 for 6+ years & 65k+ miles. Just passed 150k. Blackstone oil analysis in 2017 showed normal wear. I use Mobil 1 full synthetic, monitor the oil level, and baby the motor when it's cold. No motor issues whatsoever for me.
 

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I'm not aware of any rod bearing hysteria for the E39s. I thought that was all on the V10s.

Anecdote: I've had my E39 for 6+ years & 65k+ miles. Just passed 150k. Blackstone oil analysis in 2017 showed normal wear. I use Mobil 1 full synthetic, monitor the oil level, and baby the motor when it's cold. No motor issues whatsoever for me.



For the rod bearing issue:
A friend of mine got an E39 and did the rod bearings last month at 145000km at the freelance shop of a former M engineer and said the bearings were almost done. In general the engine would have lasted for 2000km more with relaxed driving maximum. On one place copper was already visible. I asked this mechanic about my S63TU from '14 and he said its the same "issue" with all the S63. You have to look at rod bearings as a maintenance part (which is not listed as such by BMW) which has to be looked after by replacing the engine oil with double frequence to what BMW recommends and the rod bearings will last something between 80-120000km. However when doing lots of city driving or having many cold starts they should be changed every 60000km. Since he is making a living on mostly replacing rod bearings he probably knows what he is talking about. In 10000km I will find out, what my rods look like after 60k of daily city driving :eek...


For other S63 related issues:
There has been a dirty throttle actuator after 130000km on the E39 but nothing else on both cars what so ever, both cars were bought from second hand. (knocking on wood)
 

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Haha youre right that was my feeling as well, before buying an S63 but to be fair the mechanic showed the rod bearings to my friends which are supposedly his...
 

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Discussion Starter #28
I'm not aware of any rod bearing hysteria for the E39s. I thought that was all on the V10s.

Anecdote: I've had my E39 for 6+ years & 65k+ miles. Just passed 150k. Blackstone oil analysis in 2017 showed normal wear. I use Mobil 1 full synthetic, monitor the oil level, and baby the motor when it's cold. No motor issues whatsoever for me.
Oh man. You couldn't give the E39 M5's away several years back. It's all how they were looked after, but the internet really tanked the value of that car because of it. Same way they did on the E60 M5 right now. Every single review out there mentions some sort of catastrophic failure looming around the next bend. It's pure insanity.

I don't honestly buy into it to be honest, but the fact that the masses (who are @SSes) do, cause the resales to plummet. And that, I'm not into.
 

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Bull. Complete bull.

As far as catastrophic failures in the S63, I'd say it's still the typical internet hysteria. I think part of the problem is that even BMW techs don't realize the total separation of an N63 from an S63, so there is confusion too. A "friend" of mine is a tech at the local dealer. He says they now run a second shift in the shop just so they can keep up with engine replacements (9.9/10 of which are for excessive oil consumption) and he wished me good luck. The thing is, the work they're doing is all on N63 engines, not the S63. When I clarified that to him, he had nothing to say. haha.

Anyway, in my opinion, I'd say the S63 is way better than the S85 you're getting rid of. The S62 is prone to sensor sensitivity and Vanos issues and an overblown rod bearing issue (no pun intend). The S85 has legit expensive repair concerns. The S63 doesn't have too much expensive go wrong with it, at this age anyway. Yeah, fuel injectors and pumps can go but some of that stuff is covered under BMW extended warranty and if not covered, they aren't ridiculously expensive. Of course some people have blown engines. I'd chalk up the majority of those to owners habits and aggressive tuning/mods on the stock bottom end.
As an owner of a 2012 X6M with a now-seized S63, I'd have to disagree with you. During my search for an attorney, I've uncovered more than a dozen S63 owners (X6M and X5M drivers) who've had their engines seize.

By the way, no luck finding an attorney yet.
 

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Bull. Complete bull.
You can add me to that list too. Just short of 80k miles and my engine in seized.


As an owner of a 2012 X6M with a now-seized S63, I'd have to disagree with you. During my search for an attorney, I've uncovered more than a dozen S63 owners (X6M and X5M drivers) who've had their engines seize.

By the way, no luck finding an attorney yet.
Bull. Complete bull.



As an owner of a 2012 X6M with a now-seized S63, I'd have to disagree with you. During my search for an attorney, I've uncovered more than a dozen S63 owners (X6M and X5M drivers) who've had their engines seize.

By the way, no luck finding an attorney yet.
Add me to the list. I am just shy of 80k miles and my engine just seized.
 

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What is the cause of these engines seizing up? Typically engines with rod bearing failures start to make a loud knocking sound followed by a rod exiting the block. Is that the case here or are these engines seizing up because of lack of oil? I understand that s63 can burn quite a bit of oil, so wondering if you keep on top of it and don't let the oil level drop, can these engine failures be prevented?
 

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What is the cause of these engines seizing up? Typically engines with rod bearing failures start to make a loud knocking sound followed by a rod exiting the block. Is that the case here or are these engines seizing up because of lack of oil? I understand that s63 can burn quite a bit of oil, so wondering if you keep on top of it and don't let the oil level drop, can these engine failures be prevented?
I am fairly confident mine seized because the valves stem gasket failed and then burned the bearings and welded itself together. I drove it about 1/8 of a mile after the seal failed so I could safely pull off the road. Towed it to mechanic and it won't turn over.
 

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Skijt,
What bearing are you referring to? A valve stem seal failure will cause the engine to burn oil, particularly on startup. You will see a cloud of white smoke on startup. That has nothing to do with any bearing that I can think of. Perhaps I am missing something, but I just can't understand what you are trying to say.
 

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Well this is concerning. I bought an F10 M abt 7 months ago and my DCT ate itself 2 months after purchase. If these engines like to do likewise maybe I need to consider a less fragile platform. You'd think bmw would have sorted out the oiling with how long this V8's been in production along with the modular nature of the block and the various platforms it's shared between.

I seem to be seeing more and more stories crop up. I hope its overblown but admittedly this isnt confidence inspiring.
 

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Hi guys am new just registered, have myself a 2012 f10 m5, bought used here in malaysia with no warranty whatsoever. So guess what?, after a couple of weeks driving the engine seized on me while on the way sending my daughter to school and it died right on her school driveway. Imagine the look on other parents faces as all were wondering why the hell my car was blocking others right at the drop zone area. Sheesh, tried to turn the engine over it just whimpered a couple of times then went quiet completely.
Anyways to cut the story short, engine have had 138k kms on the clock when it seized so did a complete overhaul and faults were found at the main bearings and and con rod bearings and one of the con rod bearing got sheared off completely.
So here in malaysia being the tropics with typically 35 degrees celsius daily we found that the fault was likely due to the standard oil viscosity recommended by bmw for the m5. I have switched to chemlube 10w60 as advised by my specialist friend and to date the car has been running really well and super smooth till now at 156k kms and by the way the car was already running on stage 2 with close to 650bhp when i bought it and it still is even after overhaul, glad to say that its a peach to drive now for the time being, fingers crossed.
 

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^^ Well, there are certainly risks to be taken beefing the engine up to 650 on stage 2, even though it may be able to handle it (seems like obvs not), this is not the same thing as a stock car's engine seizing with no aftermarket modifications.
 

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Yeah I agree entirely coz I actually managed to buy an entire used s63b44t0 engine from another malaysian chap who replaced his with a completely almost new hartge set that he managed to source from the UK. Reason being coz his original engine was beginning to give signals that its about to seize, so when i rebuilt my engine i managed to swap the turbos, 1 piston as well as a full crankshaft swap and although his crankshaft was showing signs of wear but my specialist friend was able to get it sorted out with an engineering shop where they managed to recondition it, all this was due to the fact that that engine was a standard unit with only 70k kms on the clock and was only beginning to falter. So my friends, I feel that its not all that bad the s63 only that i would have to disagree if bmw was to say that the s63 is a robust unit, this is not so.
You see, i couldn't salvage my original crankshaft as one of the con rod bearing got sheared almost entirely off the crank, seriously damaging the entire shaft to the point of bending it. This is serious damage to the tune of 650plus bhp, so not robust at all.
And news for everyone, I have since been driving my f10m5 on a daily scale and booting the throttle at almost every opportunity I get eager to see the lastability of the s63 given after all thats been done to it so am keen to update u guys on the progress/outcome in the coming months. P.s. over here in Malaysia most if not all of the m5s from e39 right up to the f10 run on oils with 10w60 ratings even the turbocharged s63, mine's running on chemlube 10w60 as this brand is highly regarded amongst the carrera 911 turbo club malaysia. They say that this oil maintains viscosity in intense heat generated by turbo engines. We will soon see.
 

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Tbh with mine ive been eyeballing FCP engineerings forged conrods. I surmise that with a flatter tq curve in the tune, better rods and revised bearing clearances that these could possibly last, if you want extra protection, toss in sleeves.

- but I feel that bmw was a little overconfident in their V8 with the tune on it- seriously the rods are like toothpicks.
 

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Yeah, my guess is the same as yours, but putting in revised con rods and adding sleeves just confirms the engine poor design. I also found out that bmw declared manufacturer JB1 and JB2 stages for 650bhp and 780bhp respectively meaning in the real tuning world JB1 stage 1 till stage 2 is up to 650bhp and stage 3 to stage 4 up to 780bhp for the s63 so reflective what we have seen in the m8 competition currently pumping out 625bhp. Coz i have begun to understand that when bmw declared anything above JB2 at 780bhp they shrug their shoulders anything beyond that.
Thats why we see on a manufacturing scale that the s63 powered m cars dont ever go beyond 650bhp let alone 780bhp, i guess its just for safe measures but even then the engine pops
 

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  1. Truth be told, its the way the tq comes in, peak tq @1500rpm is WAY too early for the engine design- just a power profile revision alone would make large strides. The factory tune also targets lean afrs (think 14-14.5 levels of afr targets) all the way up into the ~ 4K rpm range where it starts to enrich, just way to aggressive.
I Think the engine could be decent out of the box, just without it running itself ragged edge
 
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