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Discussion Starter #1
About to sell my E60 M5 and my daily driver ML430 for an X5M. After dealing with the rod bearing hysteria surrounding the E39 M5, I sold it for the (then) trouble free S85 E60 M5. Five minutes later, the S85's became the ticking time bombs that the internet has known to love. Really irritating how the internet can ruin a perfectly good car. Never the less, I refuse to deal with a potential problem that BMW won't stand behind anyways.

Is the S63 also a ticking timebomb piece of junk? I'm about to move to Porsche as they seem to care about thier image and stand behind their product - unlike BMW. I'd really like the X5M, but not if I have to live in fear every time I start the engine.

Thoughts?
 

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They're like a hot crazy chick... Everytime you get together you're scared, every out of the ordinary sound/comment you worry what it'll mean , your friends think you're out of your mind of having it and it consumes off money , but it's sexy as hell, fun to ride, and totally worth it. Crazy in head crazy in bed.


That said all Sxx engines seem to have reported issues, I've only really had worn rod bearing and the throttle actuators on the S85 all the others I have S54 and S62 have been rock solid. So some of it may be overblown too.
 

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As far as catastrophic failures in the S63, I'd say it's still the typical internet hysteria. I think part of the problem is that even BMW techs don't realize the total separation of an N63 from an S63, so there is confusion too. A "friend" of mine is a tech at the local dealer. He says they now run a second shift in the shop just so they can keep up with engine replacements (9.9/10 of which are for excessive oil consumption) and he wished me good luck. The thing is, the work they're doing is all on N63 engines, not the S63. When I clarified that to him, he had nothing to say. haha.

Anyway, in my opinion, I'd say the S63 is way better than the S85 you're getting rid of. The S62 is prone to sensor sensitivity and Vanos issues and an overblown rod bearing issue (no pun intend). The S85 has legit expensive repair concerns. The S63 doesn't have too much expensive go wrong with it, at this age anyway. Yeah, fuel injectors and pumps can go but some of that stuff is covered under BMW extended warranty and if not covered, they aren't ridiculously expensive. Of course some people have blown engines. I'd chalk up the majority of those to owners habits and aggressive tuning/mods on the stock bottom end.
 

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I've run the S63 in a 2013 X5M from 28,000 miles to it's current 72,500.

Aside from devastating depreciation, crippling tire and fuel consumption, body and electronic hiccups, and charge cooling issues it's been bulletproof for me.

Plugs burn out quickly, coils can go bad, and injectors if not updated are problematic. But mine still generates the power and acceleration as when I got it with no signs of slowing down. No turbos, cats, timing chains, bearings... no issues with the entire driveline in fact!
 

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I have had 3 S63 Engines blow up on me. My 2015 m5 let go at 14k miles. Just had a tune and down pipes. My 2016 M6 let go at 12k miles with just a tune. Same tuner. I have to blame them. They vanished since.

I bought a used supposed low miles S63TU motor from a junkyard to put in my M6 after. Tuned it with a new well known tuner and it let go 200 miles later. I suspect a tuning issue again.

Moral is I think get a REALLY good tuner. Use a JB4 due to it's safety features and logging. Don't be too aggressive.

I have a 2018 X5M that runs mid 11's w/ just a JB4.

Now I have a built Carbhan Stage2 engine in my M6 with Pure Stage2 Turbos and were on month 14 trying to get this working it's not making power and no one knows why yet.

Best,
 

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I have had 3 S63 Engines blow up on me. My 2015 m5 let go at 14k miles. Just had a tune and down pipes. My 2016 M6 let go at 12k miles with just a tune. Same tuner. I have to blame them. They vanished since.

I bought a used supposed low miles S63TU motor from a junkyard to put in my M6 after. Tuned it with a new well known tuner and it let go 200 miles later. I suspect a tuning issue again.

Moral is I think get a REALLY good tuner. Use a JB4 due to it's safety features and logging. Don't be too aggressive.

I have a 2018 X5M that runs mid 11's w/ just a JB4.

Now I have a built Carbhan Stage2 engine in my M6 with Pure Stage2 Turbos and were on month 14 trying to get this working it's not making power and no one knows why yet.

Best,
Wow. Maybe you should change engine platforms because this one definitely has a curse on you!
 

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Wow. Maybe you should change engine platforms because this one definitely has a curse on you!
More like maybe if you constantly feel the need to tune a BMW as soon as you get it to get more power, you should rather go looking for something with more power instead from the start. Who covers the bill on all these engines you have had tuned that then detonated themselves? A tune is cheap compared to a blown engine.
 

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More like maybe if you constantly feel the need to tune a BMW as soon as you get it to get more power, you should rather go looking for something with more power instead from the start. Who covers the bill on all these engines you have had tuned that then detonated themselves? A tune is cheap compared to a blown engine.

Everyone wants more power and cheap power is very tempting in turbo cars. Problem is the car is already running 21 psi of boost from the factory, iirc...
 

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always be skeptical of "cheap power" even if a JB4 is only $400-600ish and somewhat safe, there's always a chance something could happen, and think of the cost then.

So again if the car comes with 21PSI from Factory and that's not enough power for you, then go get yourself an old Toyota 2JZ and turbo it up to 1000hp and be satisfied for likely less money than an S63 engine replacement!

I've never had a turbo car, and I know the cheap power can be incredibly tempting especially when the numbers are around 70-100 additional HP for about 500 bucks. But what else needs to be upgraded to handle that additional power so the car lasts and continues to be reliable? Bigger intercooler? Less restrictive exhaust?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thank you all for the advice and replies! I’m not much of a modded/tuner when it comes to the M cars I’ve owned previously, and after test driving a 2016 I don’t think I need an ounce more power lol. I NEVER buy modded cars for this reason, either.

The truth is I tend to buy the M cars because they have better interiors, better brakes and subtle but worthwhile body enhancements, and they tend to hold their values better than non-M cars. The power is just icing on the cake for me (I live in NY and sit in traffic constantly with my big stupid V10...)

Anyways, as a follow up.... it seems like the E70 is literally half the price of the F85 chassis. Is the F85 really twice as good, or should I keep my eye on a really nice E70 instead?

I’m more concerned with the power (same) and the handling (same) of the X5M. I believe the two to be very similar in that regard.

Thanks again to all, making me feel better about the transition.
 

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About to sell my E60 M5 and my daily driver ML430 for an X5M. After dealing with the rod bearing hysteria surrounding the E39 M5, I sold it for the (then) trouble free S85 E60 M5. Five minutes later, the S85's became the ticking time bombs that the internet has known to love. Really irritating how the internet can ruin a perfectly good car. Never the less, I refuse to deal with a potential problem that BMW won't stand behind anyways.

Is the S63 also a ticking timebomb piece of junk? I'm about to move to Porsche as they seem to care about thier image and stand behind their product - unlike BMW. I'd really like the X5M, but not if I have to live in fear every time I start the engine.

Thoughts?
Maybe it’s time to stop blaming the cars for their failures.

.
 

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I bought my x5m for 35k and 45k miles. I drive hard, break stuff and upgrade the broken stuff. I have a dinan stage 1 factory package. Getting down pipes and an ecu upgrade this summer. Im gonna push the turbos to 21psi. Thats the max without sacrificing life span. Factory is 16, and dinan stage 1 is 19.

The engine and drive train is bullet proof. I also skipped the depreciation. Looking for 2 more. This car is a beast and the s63 is just icing on top.
 

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There is a rebuild video for S63 on youtube. I'll just link one of them (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lDdBmOgSiA) but there are many parts. This is a 70,000km engine, and while we don't know how it was maintained (probably poorly), I am amazed how bad the bearings are. I am not just talking about rod bearings, the main bearings look horrible, just watch the video. The only conclusion I can suggest is that replace your oil frequently and ignore the BMW schedule. Not sure what else you can do to avoid this main bearing wear.
 

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I have a 2007 E63. It had 73000 miles when I parked it to do a bearing change, fearing the bearings were about to fail on me on the next drive... SURPRISE !! When we pulled he bearings out they could have easily gone another 25,000-30,000 miles without complaint, maybe even 50.000 if driven conservatively... they were that good !!. It's all in how it was cared for. I installed new WPC bearings and ARP rod bolts, changed the throttle actuators, alternator, oil level sensor, installed headers, did 1ry cat delete, reflashed the ECU, top speed delete, etc...got a DREAM car.


Get a 2019 M6 and drive it like you stole it, may last you 10,000 miles. Take care of it, it will last you a L-O-N-G time. To each his own...
 

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I can suggest is that replace your oil frequently and ignore the BMW schedule. Not sure what else you can do to avoid this main bearing wear.
+1, with Bmw recommended 15k oil change interval no engine will last. Just look into the S85 and S65 statistics. This is gonna turn to another oil thread.
 

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Sounds like you need to stop buying into the “hysteria” of rod bearings on the S62 and S63. I’ve got 80k on my S62 and 147k on the S63 and not a single major issue.

For every bad story you read on the forums, there are two dozen or more good stories.

Buy a clean example, drive the **** out of it, and maintain it properly and your car will treat you right.
 

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Oil?
When I rebuilt the used '72 2002tii engine that was blowing smoke at 70k, i found that the babbit was stull on the bearings. Brand new. The cylinder walls had glazed, letting oil in. That car was driven HARD. Then by me. The secret is 3-4k oil changes. Thats kept all my subsequent bmws going well over 500k miles each. Sure other stuff breaks along the way, but oil change interval is eternal.
 

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Thank you all for the advice and replies! I’m not much of a modded/tuner when it comes to the M cars I’ve owned previously, and after test driving a 2016 I don’t think I need an ounce more power lol. I NEVER buy modded cars for this reason, either.

The truth is I tend to buy the M cars because they have better interiors, better brakes and subtle but worthwhile body enhancements, and they tend to hold their values better than non-M cars. The power is just icing on the cake for me (I live in NY and sit in traffic constantly with my big stupid V10...)

Anyways, as a follow up.... it seems like the E70 is literally half the price of the F85 chassis. Is the F85 really twice as good, or should I keep my eye on a really nice E70 instead?

I’m more concerned with the power (same) and the handling (same) of the X5M. I believe the two to be very similar in that regard.

Thanks again to all, making me feel better about the transition.

E70 may be half the price mainly because a 2014 model is missing, making a bit of a price gulf. I own the E70 S63 as I mentioned before (stock) and I've put tons of miles on it with no engine issues. I change oil at half intervals 7,500 miles. To me, oil covers every part of the engine and runs through some hot turbos. Seems to me that it would shorten life given the application the oil is used for.

Main bearings being an interesting topic, I believe I can hear the mains on this engine making a bit of noise, but that typically isn't as fatal as a rod bearing and can pound away forever. I've noticed over the years that main bearings tend to be more of an issue on higher torque engines.

You can pull away easily from most traffic with under 2k RPM, 2500 is good to put you about 6-10 car lengths in front of grandpa Hal. Tons of twist. Exhaust sound will have you be the laughing stock of the pony car crowd no matter what you do to it. Who cares, it's a better vehicle than a Camaro.

Driving the F85 the engine sound coming over the speakers is fake, almost irritating... the transmission is very busy shuffling through the gears at low speed. It's noticeably faster in most RPM ranges, peak acceleration is more a function of the 8 speed gearbox, as once up over 100mph the acceleration feels about the same.

Interior-wise the ambience in the F85 is worth the price premium. The E70 interior is based in 2007 (with echoes of 2005 E60 and even earlier design language). If E70 is your choice, find one with the comfort seats and 2011+ (LCI) it'll have similar features as the newer F85. Comfort is about the same. The E70 depreciation-wise is near enough the bottom, at least here in Canada, with 2013 values closing in on 2010 values. The F85 is still on it's way to the bottom.

I can't seem to get a proper alignment on it, the inner rear tires wear out pretty heavy, the front gets feathered edges. You're into trailing arms bushings to get this corrected, but it'll eat your tires alive.

The E70 has a lot of charge cooling issues and body electronics stuff to correct. Airbag recall, driveshaft recall, door handles stop working, backup and overhead cameras and modules, iDrive module, charge cooling pumps on their third go-round, air suspension leaks and compressors, $3,000 brake jobs, $1200-$2,000 tires every 20k miles, crankcase vent tubes harden/crack/leak over the top of the engine causing vacuum leaks, plugs and coils, fuel injectors need to be the latest index or they'll go bad, interior squeaks and rattles, and I've replaced a high pressure fuel pump. All under warranty, which is about to expire! Not sure about F85 in this regard. Both will see about 12-16mpg, the F85 being slightly better as it revs a lot lower down the highway and has the variable lift/better aero. In the winter I've been down under 6mpg around town.
 
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