[leem5]

Hi,

I'm on the look out for a front mounted air/air intercooler for my supercharger system.

Two things mine looking for are;

Firstly, what sort of flow rate/ capacity intercooler am I looking for?

Secondly, ideally I don't want to cut the bumper as I want to keep the front grill (more the stealth look).

Cheers

Lee

 

[E55AMG2]

Figure out how many CFM the supercharger moves, and select an IC that fits into the engine bay AND can handle that level of CFM without a pressure drop greater than 1.5psi

 

[leem5]

Thanks for the reply

As per Vortechs website the charger moves 1150 CFM (775 HP), now the system is only rated at 570 HP (ESS).

So do I reduce some and get a smaller intercooler or go with what the charger 'can do'? This was really what I was asking, sorry.

Cheers,

Lee

 

[E55AMG2]

Thanks for the reply

As per Vortechs website the charger moves 1150 CFM (775 HP), now the system is only rated at 570 HP (ESS).

So do I reduce some and get a smaller intercooler or go with what the charger 'can do'? This was really what I was asking, sorry.

Cheers,

Lee

1150cfm at what boost pressure? We know the ESS is 6psi, what is max boost on the blower?

 

[leem5]

1150cfm at what boost pressure? We know the ESS is 6psi, what is max boost on the blower?

I just stated what its rated at 22psi from there website, I see 8 psi on my kit, a little higher in cooler weather.

So, is it a simple as 1150 /22 x 8 (my pressure) to give me the CFM I'm looking for?

Thanks again for your help.

Lee

 

[sayanthan]

what are you trying to achieve? more power? are your IATs high?
what are your IATs/boost like on repeated hard driving?
sounds like you've got good boost.....do you need an intercooler?
i know some people go intercooled when they want to up the boost or stop IATs going too high.
how much boost can the stock engine take?
i'm sure ESS must have considered an intercooler in their development programme-why didn't they do one with the vortech?
are there any ESS cars in europe/US running intercoolers?

 

[M5 London]

are there any ESS cars in europe/US running intercoolers?

Maybe soon

LEE : I thought you were going to go Water/Methanol injection first, and then I follow suite after you do all the hardwork and research ?

 

[sayanthan]

Maybe soon

LEE : I thought you were going to go Water/Methanol injection first, and then I follow suite after you do all the hardwork and research ?

cool. i take it an intercooler is definitely needed on the ESS cars then ? was it cost issue that the standard ESS conversions didn't have one? presumably there's alot of fabrication needed to retro-fit one in? won't be cheap. are you guys planning big power?

 

[M5 London]

cool. i take it an intercooler is definitely needed on the ESS cars then ? was it cost issue that the standard ESS conversions didn't have one? presumably there's alot of fabrication needed to retro-fit one in? won't be cheap. are you guys planning big power?

I would definitely NOT say ESS cars definitely need an intercooler.

I think we have seen over 10 ESS cars running perfectly fine without an intercooler.

I just feel that there is more power to be had, per given ambient/intake temperature, with an intercooler.

I reckon I would do Water/Methanol before going intercooler. But I like doing things in stages, otherwise I spend way too much cash in one go and have nothing to look forward to, in the weeks ahead.

 

[sayanthan]

I would definitely NOT say ESS cars definitely need an intercooler.

I think we have seen over 10 ESS cars running perfectly fine without an intercooler.

I just feel that there is more power to be had, per given ambient/intake temperature, with an intercooler.

I reckon I would do Water/Methanol before going intercooler. But I like doing things in stages, otherwise I spend way too much cash in one go and have nothing to look forward to, in the weeks ahead.

i'd recommend this guy:-

GRS Motorsport : Quality Aluminium Products

always does top knotch work, specialises in intercoolers. he's a perfectionist. he usually dyno's the car at ray west if he's going to take a project of this nature on and would then re-dyno afterwards to check there are proven gains-at cost obviously.
i think developing this won't be cheap-there may be more than one attempt.also it may turn out the gains aren't there unless you also use a smaller pulley for more boost and strengthen the internals, port the heads etc. etc.

 

[HaydenM5]

I would like to suggest an amazing book that will help you out a lot when it comes to understanding supercharging as a whole. I think you would enjoy it....

Supercharged! - by Corky Bell

Its on Amazon (or choose your own vendor) and goes for about 25 dollars.

He also has a turbo book. I have read both many times, lots of great info

 

[Mfreakin5]

I doubt you need an intercooler at 6-8 psi, especially when the supercharger is pretty efficient and not running anywhere close to it's max CFM. Keep an eye on your IAT's to decide for yourself.

But keep in mind that you'll probably lose about 1 psi across the core, which will negate any power gains you may achieve from better cooling unless you run a smaller pulley to compensate.

 

[tacoma330ci]

I doubt you need an intercooler at 6-8 psi, especially when the supercharger is pretty efficient and not running anywhere close to it's max CFM. Keep an eye on your IAT's to decide for yourself.

But keep in mind that you'll probably lose about 1 psi across the core, which will negate any power gains you may achieve from better cooling unless you run a smaller pulley to compensate.

In my case, I had a 2psi drop accross my intercooler and still are making more power than before the intercooler and running out of gas at the high RPM's versus being super rich on the standard VF engineering (comparable to ESS) SC kit.

Essentially means there is a lot more air coming through the engine due to the density of the charge. If I remember correctly, you do the calculations straight from Supercharged, a 4psi intercooled SC setup, makes as much power as a 6-7psi non intercooled SC setup. In addition you have less chance of detonation as you're IAT's are much lower...

I think if I had to do it again, I'd go with an A2W aftercooler setup like Peter's to get the best of both worlds (lower controlled IAT's, very minimal pressure drop...)

 

[leem5]

Maybe soon

LEE : I thought you were going to go Water/Methanol injection first, and then I follow suite after you do all the hardwork and research ?

I am still looking at this route aswell, I'm trying to weigh it up between the two for our weather. Last summer, I suffered some bad heat soak on more than one sprirted drive out, I don't think I'll be going big HP this year (house to buy), just want something to prevent the heat soak again.

If I can find out what CFM intercooler I need, I'll start looking at off the shelf coolers initially to see if any fit the purpose and go from there, been looking at the 'Mishimoto' site (no idea how good they are/reputation), seems the coolers are of a price that if you get it wrong there's not to much damage to the bank, rather than having one fabricated too find out it's too big/small!

 

[E55AMG2]

I just stated what its rated at 22psi from there website, I see 8 psi on my kit, a little higher in cooler weather.

So, is it a simple as 1150 /22 x 8 (my pressure) to give me the CFM I'm looking for?

Thanks again for your help.

Lee

1150 @ 22psi = ~418.2/8psi

You'll prob want one that can flow 450-500.

 

[rao]

Even with the m5 front bumper there is not a huge amount of space for an air to air intercooler.

I'd be interested to see what you come up that will fit.

 

[leem5]

1150 @ 22psi = ~418.2/8psi

You'll prob want one that can flow 450-500

.

Thank you, this is what I was thinking, just wanted someone to confirm it.

I'll start looking for something with this capacity.

Cheers,

Lee

 

[M5 London]

So with an Air 2 Water in Plenum Intercooler, we wouldn't have to mess around with all the Supercharger to plenum intake pipe ?

Seems like a lot more of an elegant solution than a FMIC type setup, considering we have the SC kit already installed too.

 

[leem5]

So with an Air 2 Water in Plenum Intercooler, we wouldn't have to mess around with all the Supercharger to plenum intake pipe ?

Seems like a lot more of an elegant solution than a FMIC type setup, considering we have the SC kit already installed too.

True, for the Air/Water route I've been in touch with Andy at intercooler fabrication specialists, he seems to have a good reputation.

The Air/Air route, from what I can see you would need to 'flip' the SC discharge pipe 180 deg as the piping would need to come from the nearside due to routing issues.

Obviously one method has been proven that it can be done by Peter and his mega beastie, the other way I've not seen yet?

 

[E55AMG2]

Both can be done....but air/water will be more complicated due to the extra radiator/plumbing necessary.