BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner

81 - 100 of 141 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
549 Posts
Read the fumes, pros and cons in the following topic:http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-touring-discussion/531897-bmw-engines-gigantic-pieces-s.html

I agree, and there is nothing wrong with Muscle cars or American for matter. But what most people seem to forget is the history and the reason behind the engineering decisions.

UP UNTIL RECENTLY..

In America they wanted to make more power they throw displacement at the problem. Minus the Ford getting yamaha for the SHO and GM getting Mercury or maybe Yamaha involved for the ZR1's LT4 power was made by going with bigger engines, everything still based on old push rod design. AGAIN NOTHING WRONG WITH ANY OF THAT.

In Europe, however, they couldn't go bigger regulation and taxes were based on engine size. So they had two options, turbo (Audi) or high revving constantly redefined design (BMW) or both (Porsche, Ferrari). Hence new designs that were race proven but never really stood the test of time.

Now do I agree with some posters that BMW quality has gone down? Yes I personally think the sheet metal of the E60 is made of tinfoil and dings if you look at it. Are the cost of parts a little nuts, yes the actuators and vanos solenoids for example. But I wonder if it's cost to build since the volumes are less now and VDO has to retool a line just to build a few thousand, someone is covering that cost and sadly it's the consumer.

So I think some perspective needs to be had. If you want a fast cheap car European has never been the way to go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
440 Posts
As I had stated before, technically this would be an impossible case to present. The only hope is the non-technical cause of BMW failure to warn customers the use of heavy 10W60 oil. They must had instructed all buyers to warm the cars properly before high revving driving. The engine is an F1 racing based that must be warmed properly.

my european, bmw - made 335d is fast, efficient and extremely reliable.

The S85 wouldn't be a gigantic POS if bmw gave it 0.001" more clearance on rod bearings. The throttle actuators don't require removal of subframe and meticulous service to replace. The solenoid valves likewise.
The rod bearing job is massive, must be done perfectly, and it's very expensive. This is why bmw should be covering it. and they should call up Jim to source treated rod bearings so they last.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
549 Posts
- I think there just wasn't enough s85s sold in the first place for a law firm to make money on the case.

BMW, own up to your mistake.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M5
"The E60 M5 was the most successful M5, despite being on the market for one year shorter than the E39 M5. During its five-year run, 20,548 units were built composing of 19,523 saloons and 1,025 wagons. 8,800 were sold in the U.S., all of the sedan variety"

With minimal $1000 per car commission, at least the law firm will make $8.8 millions. If you folks want to help the firm, go start gathering data of RB failures.

FYI, I tested three high mileage E60 M5's (100K+ miles) in 2012 Washington DC area with original RB's. A member here stated that there are many 100-Kmiles+ for sale in Europe also with original RB's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,060 Posts
You can add together the S65 cars as well

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M5
"The E60 M5 was the most successful M5, despite being on the market for one year shorter than the E39 M5. During its five-year run, 20,548 units were built composing of 19,523 saloons and 1,025 wagons. 8,800 were sold in the U.S., all of the sedan variety"

With minimal $1000 per car commission, at least the law firm will make $8.8 millions. If you folks want to help the firm, go start gathering data of RB failures.

FYI, I tested three high mileage E60 M5's (100K+ miles) in 2012 Washington DC area with original RB's. A member here stated that there are many 100-Kmiles+ for sale in Europe also with original RB's.
Way more M3s out there
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
2,295 Posts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M5
"The E60 M5 was the most successful M5, despite being on the market for one year shorter than the E39 M5. During its five-year run, 20,548 units were built composing of 19,523 saloons and 1,025 wagons. 8,800 were sold in the U.S., all of the sedan variety"

With minimal $1000 per car commission, at least the law firm will make $8.8 millions. If you folks want to help the firm, go start gathering data of RB failures.

FYI, I tested three high mileage E60 M5's (100K+ miles) in 2012 Washington DC area with original RB's. A member here stated that there are many 100-Kmiles+ for sale in Europe also with original RB's.
What about M6's? Prob another 10k more engines or so.

And what was the outcome of your testing?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
549 Posts
JColley and Troy may have the stats of RB engine damage. The firm needs tremendous help to gather this stats, along with the vehicle histories. RB failure on the first owner cars would be highly valuable.

I have attended many Auto and BMW gatherings in Washington DC area, and I have *not* heard any RB issues on M5. I only met a technician who witnessed an M3 S65 with RB failure. Someone in Dover, NH had also never heard it. A member here in SF knew an M6 (still under warranty?) suffered catastrophic RB failure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
Just re-activating this as I honestly thing BMW should be held responsible for the rod bearing issues. From what I've been reading, just about every engine from the s85 forward is or will be experiencing rod bearing failure at of before 100k miles. NMW is way too good a manuafacturer to not know how to remedy this.
 

·
Registered
DinanS2+ e60m5 6MT, s38b38 e28m5 TT/ST3, e30 TT/ST4
Joined
·
6,263 Posts
I think there are about six of us on this thread that are still owners.

Just had sushi with @EuroCarFan the other day. Hope that rash cleared up 🤣😂🤣😂🤣.
 
  • Like
Reactions: specialized2010

·
Registered
DinanS2+ e60m5 6MT, s38b38 e28m5 TT/ST3, e30 TT/ST4
Joined
·
6,263 Posts
Really? I figured there were at least 10 of you guys still around.
I was thinking 6 from the 2012 crowd.

I think you’re right with the 10 total.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psing23

·
Registered
Joined
·
909 Posts
I would expect there to be like 2 dozen or so, these cars aren’t that old, and by 2010 it was clear there would never be another V10 BMW, so I would have kept mine, but I can also see that the expiring warranty and reports of having to get the thing towed due to SMG issues would cause most ppl to dump the thing.

I have no way of knowing but I’d guess that there are a higher percentage of original E39 M5 owners (adjusted for time of course)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
Still here from 2011 -12ish...
I am not the original owner but my next door neighbor that I purchased "El Guapo" from was.
I experienced the "early joys and service issues" (and figuring out how to use launch control properly) vicariously through him. (R.I.P.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
Race engines with high rev's and tight clearances doesn't last long as a conventional daily commuter. I think it is totally normal to overhaul the S85 or partially repair like the rod bearings with milage less than other engines, it is just the nature of this sophistication we are dealing with and we need to act accordingly. If you can't tolerate it then you need to turn around and leave it.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
2,295 Posts
Race engines with high rev's and tight clearances doesn't last long as a conventional daily commuter. I think it is totally normal to overhaul the S85 or partially repair like the rod bearings with milage less than other engines, it is just the nature of this sophistication we are dealing with and we need to act accordingly. If you can't tolerate it then you need to turn around and leave it.
I don't think bearings are failure items on race engines. Clearances are looser, not tighter under race conditions. BMW has also bearing issues on other engines beyond the S65/85, so not really limited to their high-revving engines either. But yeah it is what it is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
The S85 is NOT a race engine. Not even sure where you get that. In fact, one of the closest engines ever commonly used on the street that was/is the air cooled, and later the Hans Metzger derrived, 911 engines. They were first used in racing in the 904 and quickly placed in the 901/911. They were raced in the 936, 956, 962, 959, 961, GT1...... Our engines are street engines. Never raced. More importatnly, though, is that the bearing issue in the S85 is continuing through all the BMW engines since. It's one thing to be an issue in a low production, high preformance engine and another to be pervasive across all the products. Not sure why they are having this probelm but, law suits do, or can, force corporations to correct errors when they won't do it voluntarily. Oh and BTW, there are some 911s (mostly the 911SCs) that have over 400k and haven't been opened up. Further, the 911 was/is considered reliable enough that the FAA allowed the 3.2 carrera to power Mooney aircraft.
 
81 - 100 of 141 Posts
Top