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Discussion Starter #1
So, I guess my long term plan will be to keep the E39 for another 7 years or so until the E102 ///M5 with normal styling and the McLaren F1 V12 motor comes out! :haha2:

http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=4186&categoryId=1

'Revolution is over' at BMW

Chris Bangle, BMW’s controversial design boss, has said the company’s design revolution is over and his team is preparing to start from scratch ready ‘for the next revolution’. Bangle, talking to Automotive News Europe, said the launch of the 3-series marked the end of a styling ‘revolution’ started by the 7-series in 2001.

He dismissed suggestions that the 7-series had an unattractive design, claiming that ‘customers liked it — very much so’.

He admitted the new 3-series was the best interpretation of BMW’s design language. ‘Perhaps we designers have matured, or the public is more ready to appreciate it.’

Bangle said he sees ‘almost nothing’ from other car makers in terms of ‘real and formal innovation… Almost no one has had the courage to take a radically new direction the way BMW has.’

Source: Autocar

Auto Spies perspective: Bangle says 'Almost no one has had the courage to take a radically new direction the way BMW has.’ We agree. But the problem with their radical new direction is the radical new designs STUNK. None of us are against radical change. We just want radical change, done right. Chris, we're all willing to give you a second chance. We just hope you get it right the next time.
 

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03E39M5 said:
Auto Spies perspective: Bangle says 'Almost no one has had the courage to take a radically new direction the way BMW has.’ We agree. But the problem with their radical new direction is the radical new designs STUNK. None of us are against radical change. We just want radical change, done right. Chris, we're all willing to give you a second chance. We just hope you get it right the next time.
Dear Mr Bangle:

1) No matter what you and GMC Truck and a few random tasteless Japanese designers think, the turn signals do NOT belong on top of the headlights.

2) Just because all the Japanese brands run around trying to be exactly the same as one another does NOT mean that BMW should join the parade. We buy BMWs because they're NOT Infinitis.

3) A good design is a good design, and is not improved by randomly throwing a bunch of crappy pointless details at it (like the E60's headlights and taillights, and the ridges-to-nowhere on the E60 M5's lower rear bumper.)

4) Your crew is to be applauded for getting the video displays up at eye level in the E60, E65, etc. They are equally to be damned for the entire dash layout below the video display in those models. Your recent designs are more German-hotel-room-furniture than German-car, and alas this trend appears to carry on to the new 3er.

5) I realize that, as a designer, it's tough to maintain a focus on doing the simple things right when the engineers have also lost their direction and drifted off into silliness like iDrive and Active Steering. But someone has to take the lead in sorting out this mess.

6) We, as customers, do not really care what the clowns that legislate pedestrian-safety requirements for the EC want. I personally don't care if my car is any more pedestrian-friendly than a Hummer H2. We do not want our next cars to look like Bozo The Clown's nose.
 

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I'm glad to see that his days are over at BMW....his design just put BMW 10 yrs behind....enough of the Japanese influence....




Ed
 

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Whiteyford said:
I see I'm not the only one who feels strongly about the UGLY new design.
No siree!! When I see the new 5, I always think Honda Accord ...Can never switch my brain off that connection.
 

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Guys I think you guys are all being harsh. I have been a life long BMW fanatic and, Yes I was initially horiified when I saw the 7 series in 2001.

But when I saw the car in the flesh it instantly made the S Class/ Audi A8 look out of date. Anytime we see something that deviates from the norm it causes controversy. You have to look at where BMW styling was before Bangle and where the competitors were.
BMW were critisised for making the same car in three different sizes for a number of years. You could argue that this was correct and that the cars looked fantastic, true. But BMW were universally critised by their competitors and the press alike for ths.
Move forward 5 years and what are BMW's competitors doing? Replicating BMW's strategy,

AUDI A4, A6, A8 the same car in 3 sizes
Mercedes C, E, S Class same car in 3 sizes

BMW were obviously doing something right!!!!
BMW then move onto a daring strategy under Chris Bangle and we see the 7 Series. We are all horrified!!!!!! But as I said at the start in 1 fell swoop BMW made their competitors cars look very out of date and moved forward. OK it was not the best looking car in the world???? But it shocked the world and the whole world were talking.
When Chris Bangle designed the 7 Series he always said the car was designed to wear the largest wheels available and any one that has seen the car on TASTEFUL 22" wheels (NO BLING) will understand me here, the car looks fantastic. It transforms the car as you will see on the attached pictures.

Move forward to today, the 7 series is the best selling 7 series ever and I personally now think the car is beautiful. The same can be said for the other BMW cars, once you become used to them.
Now look at BMW's competitors!!!! DO any of you on this board believe that if BMW had not taken the Design route that they did would Mercedes have ever produced the CLS? Or Audi the wild looking A6 and new A4, I dont think so.

The competitors have been playing catch up all along and now that BMW have had the balls to do something that is not the norm should be applauded not criticised.
BMW's Competitors have realised that this is the correct way to do it. Its the same with I Drive, great Idea but needs some fine tuning, BMW did it first and now they are all doing it. Why were they not critised? Because they never thought of it first.
I had a chance to speak to Chris Bangle at Geneva and I can tell you guys that he knows what he is doing, we may not agree but BMW are now selling more cars than ever, making more money than their competitors and forcing their competitors to make their designs more interesting.
I personally congratulated him on what he has done with BMW and I know most of you guys will not agree with me but I think he has done the company GOOD.
I am enclosing pictures of the 7 series with larger wheels and you will see what Mr Bangle was trying to do.

Amjad Ali
 

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Mike_Rock said:
No siree!! When I see the new 5, I always think Honda Accord ...Can never switch my brain off that connection.
Funny, I have the same problem with the E39. Check out a early 90s (92/93 come to mind) Accord and compare it to a E39, especially the non-M models.
 

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Amjad Ali said:
But when I saw the car in the flesh it instantly made the S Class/ Audi A8 look out of date.
-snip-
Now look at BMW's competitors!!!! DO any of you on this board believe that if BMW had not taken the Design route that they did would Mercedes have ever produced the CLS? Or Audi the wild looking A6 and new A4, I dont think so.
When I first saw the E65 in the flesh it made the S-class look svelte and purposeful.

The E65 mainly just looks fat. It's an attractive enough car - and a VERY conservative basic shape - from wheelwell to wheelwell, but the ends are bad.

The S-class is still a very attractive car. The only other vehicles in its class that approach its all-around goodness in shape are the Jag XJ and the Cadillac STS. As long as you stay away from the ultra-cheap-looking chrome grille the new STS is probably the best-looking car of the bunch.

The previous A8 looked conservative - maybe too conservative - the day it was introduced, but frankly the shape is aging very well and looks better than the new one. The current A8 looks way overdone, way too showy for me. The flat roofline produces a back seat that's got huge amounts of legroom but not adult headroom.

Both the A6 and A8 suffer from the big-nose-overhang proportions forced on them by their hung-WAY-out-over-the-front-wheels longitudinal-FWD powertrains.

The A6 is far more conservative than the A8, and pretty attractive overall though they've thrown some chrome on the trunklid for no good reason. Their Edsel grille is stil an open question - if you've got a big wide German-size license plate it looks fine, with a narrow, tall US plate it looks like a drooling horror-flick monster.

The CLS is a joke. Gorgeous interior, but d-mn difficult to see out of. And, personally, I think the E-class looks better - the squashed-roofline proportions might look new and exciting to someone who's never seen a chopped '50 Mercury, but I have and I don't really need to drive something like that.
 

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I have to say I dislike the new BMW design since as mentioned it derives from a Japanese influence.....The raw aggressive BMW look is diminished.....and reminds me of what Porsche did to their headlights in 2000+ ....and to my opinion ruined the Porsche look.........that is probably why Porsche has now reintroduced the traditional round headlights!
 

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Amjad Ali said:
I am enclosing pictures of the 7 series with larger wheels and you will see what Mr Bangle was trying to do.
I have to disagree with you on this one. Putting 34"....... wheels on the 7 series doesn't change the bodywork. Even if it did make the car better looking, people shouldn't be forced to put on huge aftermarket wheels (or other equipment) to improve the looks of their car. It seems to me that old customers needs more time to get used to the Bangle designs than what new customers needs to start liking it. BMW does make a lot of money these days, but in today's business world you need to keep old costumers happy. The cost of getting new people to buy your product is usually higher than what you have to spend to keep your old ones.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
marcvip said:
.....and reminds me of what Porsche did to their headlights in 2000+ ....and to my opinion ruined the Porsche look.........that is probably why Porsche has now reintroduced the traditional round headlights!
Ill bet that since Bangle is apparently keeping his job, his mandate for the "next revolution" will be to go back to BMW's design roots. Something tells me that the next 7 series due around 2008 (and the 5 and 3 series soon to follow) will be much less controversial than their predecessors.
 

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There is nothing like a good bash Bangle post, and I want in. Each time I see the E65 I get angry. I can't believe the number of people here who said the design would grow on us, and others who fabricated creative arguments as to why it was a success on the styling and sales level. It is undergoing a moderate facelift early in its life for one reason. Bangle and BMW are claiming that styling revolution over for one reason. IT WAS NOT SUCCESSFUL BY ANY MEASURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bangle's influence is clearly being reigned in. Amen.

I have seen the old 7 next to the E65, and the old one sadly looks better.
Please, putting oversize wheels on a car like the E65 is a cover-up. The design is absolutely horrible.
 

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I give BMW credit for taking a chance with the new design, but inheresnt in the word "chance" is the risk of failure. They took that risk, and failed. It must be very difficult to decide on a design and then wait to see if the public likes it, especially if the reviews are negative. But they took that chance, failed, and should move on quickly. If Hyundai can recover from its horrible past, then BMW will have no problem rebounding from Bangle's bungle.
 

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Well, at leats in the business world, sucess is measured by profit. BMW has been making more money than ever in the last couple of years. How is that for sucessful? :hihi:



HBRAMSTEDT said:
There is nothing like a good bash Bangle post, and I want in. Each time I see the E65 I get angry. I can't believe the number of people here who said the design would grow on us, and others who fabricated creative arguments as to why it was a success on the styling and sales level. It is undergoing a moderate facelift early in its life for one reason. Bangle and BMW are claiming that styling revolution over for one reason. IT WAS NOT SUCCESSFUL BY ANY MEASURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bangle's influence is clearly being reigned in. Amen.

I have seen the old 7 next to the E65, and the old one sadly looks better.
Please, putting oversize wheels on a car like the E65 is a cover-up. The design is absolutely horrible.
 

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03E39M5 said:
Chris Bangle, BMW’s controversial design boss, has said the company’s design revolution is over and his team is preparing to start from scratch ready ‘for the next revolution’.
I don't know...I don't believe this. As much as I hate the current 7, it is claimed to be the most successful. They redesigned the 7's headlights, tail lights and bumper. I thought it was ugly before. It looks worse now. I'll believe it when I hear it from a more familiar source. Thanks for the gossip though.
 

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HBRAMSTEDT said:
I have seen the old 7 next to the E65, and the old one sadly looks better.
I agree wholeheartedly. I understand taste is very personal, but the new direction was not for me. I certainly hope BMW goes back to its roots, and goes for evolution, not revolution......
Regards,
Jerry
 

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From what sales numbers I saw and the interpretation of people here who looked at the numbers closely, the sales success that BMW is claimed to be experiencing is not attributed to the E65 in any way. XrayMD had some useful analysis on this. From what I understand, the Mini Cooper brand is largely responsible for any sales success. I have not seen any E65 numbers that are strong.
 

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HBRAMSTEDT said:
From what sales numbers I saw and the interpretation of people here who looked at the numbers closely, the sales success that BMW is claimed to be experiencing is not attributed to the E65 in any way. XrayMD had some useful analysis on this. From what I understand, the Mini Cooper brand is largely responsible for any sales success. I have not seen any E65 numbers that are strong.
HMRAMSTEDT is right mini sales have underpinned BMW's sales numbers for 4 years.

Five years ago,in the UK, the 7 series was the bestselling luxury saloon car moving 325 No units in Oct. In 2004, in the same period, the new 7 series sold 45No units.

If you remove mini numbers, E46 sales, X5 sales and growth in Asia all of which had nothing to do with Bangle it is easy to see why BMW profits continue to grow.

If we look at Bangles contribution. The new 7 never sold like the old, the Z4 never sold like the Z3, the E60 will never outsell the E39 (like for like), the X3 ain't no X5 and the 1 series - enough said.

Ugly design does not grow on you it just becomes less disappointing.

Great news that the Bangle revolution is over lets hope the new regime has some talent. Where did the designers of the E28, E39 and E46 go? Let's get them back.

I think i will hibernate until the next BMW models come round. :haha2:
 

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jim mc d said:
HMRAMSTEDT is right mini sales have underpinned BMW's sales numbers for 4 years.

Where did the designers of the E28, E39 and E46 go? Let's get them back.

:haha2:
Did you deliberately miss out the good ol' E34? Still my best.
 
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