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Discussion Starter #1
My LE has a rattly six-speed box when in neutral with the clutch up. It's always been there and doesn't seem to have got discernably worse.

With the clutch open, the rattle goes away - so it's not really a problem. It's not really audible when the car (presumbably the ATF) is cold.

I hear there's a possibility that if this is due to a worn release bearing, that that bearing can collapse and damage bits of the box/clutch/flywheel.

A CRB seems to be fifty quid from BMW - but no doubt there are other components which should be replaced at the same time (possibly even the clutch) to avoid repeating the same labour charges later.

Has anyone had this rattle fixed? Clearly it's not much of a home-DIY job, but what were the costs involved.

If it's a characteristic and CAN'T be fixed, please let me know.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I really enjoyed this;
IvanDias said:
"Well if I chained you to three hundred odd horses and dragged you three times round the world, you`d rattle too...."

What I replied to someone who said the gearbox was noisy.





Ivan.
 

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Had exactly the same rattle at idle with the clutch up on an e30 325 Sport I used to own. Then had the same noise on an e30 M3. I assumed it was the release bearing too.

Nigel from Bexley Motor Works told me it was the layshaft that rattles. Worse on a 'cammy' engine. No real cure as such.
 

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I think the rattle in neutral (with clutch closed) is a characteristic of the Getrag 280/5 and 6 gearboxes. I have read about it several times on the Yahoo list. My 5 speed rattles when I switch the engine off in neutral, so I always depress the cluch pedal to prevent it happening. Supposedly the rattle should cause no concern what so ever.


Alex
92 M5T
 

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Evening Andy,

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I could be the bearer of bad news I’m afraid. I have recently (well, over the last 2 or 3 years to be exact) had a very similar sounding rattle on the 5 speed gearbox in my 3.8 M5. I was advised that it could be several things. I am however an engineer myself and in my head I knew that the rattle was the gearbox and not the clutch bearing.

<o:p></o:p>

I’ll cut to the chase – Last week the gearbox in my beloved M5 finally let go. Nothing dramatic, I simply lost drive in all gears except 4<SUP>th</SUP> (this is because 4<SUP>th</SUP> is a straight through linkage as apposed to a meshed gears linkage). I had to nurse the car home and I am now considering my options with regard to a replacement gearbox. A new one is around the two grand mark but is a genuine BMW part.

<o:p></o:p>

Even though yours is a 6 speed, the description of the fault sounds identical to mine. Mine was always quiet when cold. As you have correctly pointed out, this is due to the oil being slightly more viscous.

<o:p></o:p>

My advice is to directly seek the advice of a gearbox specialist. They maybe able to listen to the gearbox and tell you exactly what is going on. There are some specialists listed on the various ‘gearbox’ threads. I have always found Neil at ‘All gears’ to be especially good on his technical knowledge, he maybe worth a try.

<o:p></o:p>

I would point out that, in the case of my failed gearbox, the gearbox didn't get any noisier as time went on but this didn't prevent it from failing. I’m not sure what size engine you have but you have to consider that, in the case of the 3.8 M5, around 340bhp is being delivered through the gearbox.

<o:p></o:p>

From what people have said in other threads I’m not sure if an M5 gearbox is really repairable. Some people have reported that repaired units have gone on to fail after a fairly short period of time.

<o:p></o:p>

Hope this helps,

Steve.
 

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Andy,

Mine has always rattled in neutral and so did the 540 before it. Both had new clutches and release bearings, when I first had them, so I doubt if that's the problem.

Somewhere I did read that the dual mass flywheel on the later cars may aggravate things. Do any 3.6l owners suffer from the same problem?

Sam
 

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Andy,


My 70k UK LE has exactly the same rattle. It recently had a new clutch and associated new ancillaries at a BMW Main Dealer at 69k miles in July 2004 - it hasn't made any difference to the rattle. (Which incidentally for me seems worse at idle when the gearbox is hot - after fast runs).

Having looked at other responses to your thread above here, I'm feeling slightly more re-assured that this is more likely to be a charateristic of the car, rather than impending doom..
 

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AndyE said:
My LE has a rattly six-speed box when in neutral with the clutch up. It's always been there and doesn't seem to have got discernably worse.

With the clutch open, the rattle goes away - so it's not really a problem. It's not really audible when the car (presumbably the ATF) is cold.

I hear there's a possibility that if this is due to a worn release bearing, that that bearing can collapse and damage bits of the box/clutch/flywheel.

A CRB seems to be fifty quid from BMW - but no doubt there are other components which should be replaced at the same time (possibly even the clutch) to avoid repeating the same labour charges later.

Has anyone had this rattle fixed? Clearly it's not much of a home-DIY job, but what were the costs involved.

If it's a characteristic and CAN'T be fixed, please let me know.
Hi AndyE,i also have 6 speed rattly box in my m5.In search of perfection i got in touch with Neil at All Gears.He suggested that it may well be possible to cure but when he inspected my box he found a worn Input Shaft.BMW refuses to sell parts for this box so untill i can trace these parts i'll have to live with the rattle.
Iwrote to someone at Getrag in search for parts.I was told that BMW had set up a special dept in 2003 where parts for this gearbox -s6s 420g- are available. My local BMW parts dept are on the case
 

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I have recently become the owner of a 95 Touring. When I purchased it, the car had about 75k miles. After getting it home, I noticed the rattle on shut down with the clutch released. After a few shutdowns I noticed the correlation with the clutch position. It is very much like a marble in an iron can sound, and is loud enough so that the wife noticed it. Hopefully this sound never manifests itself to be anything but a characteristic, as $3k in parts(EDC's and such) and labor have just been installed. I think I am going to get a $2 beer and stop thinking about the other 1499 beers sitting in the trunk.cherrsagai
 

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My 95 3.8 6spd doesn't have a rattle as such in neutral, but more of a thud, thud or a clatter, clatter which definately goes away when the clutch is pressed. This is however similar to that of other "cammy" engined cars that I've tiehr owned or driven, which does make me thing that it is more of a viberation/rumble from the engine itslef rather that from the transmission.

Wishfull thinking perhaps
??????
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for all the replies - but to clarify, this is a different noise than the clatter noise you hear when you turn the engine off - which is supposedly something to do with the DM Flywheel...
 

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I don't have the gearbox issue with the M5,yet but the M3 has/had it and somebody mentioned the "trick" of switching the engine off with the clutch engaged. I was sceptical but have tried it and it worked for me.
 

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My gearbox remains pretty quiet, however I do get the awful death rattle if I turn off without depressing the clutch. Have been assured this is normal.

Had an excellent weekend covering a few hundred miles down to N Devon and back. Found some superb roads around the Holsworthy/Okehampton area - its been a while since I was actually laughing out loud while driving. Beautiful.lovelove
 

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Being the owner of a 95 Model, I also get the rattle at shutdown and after a couple of power runs. I know of another 5 e34 M5 owners in my region with mileages going from 26,000km to 200,000km, be it 3.6 or 3.8s. The rattle thing is normal, and changing a whole clutch package will not make any difference whatsoever. It is characteristic of these cars. I´ve spoken to my mechanic, a German who used to work for BMW in homologations and is an e34 M5 owner himself and he said that this is a normal occurence on most M5s and does not mean that your tranny is knackered or has any major problems. He also said that part of the noise comes from the chain tensioner adjusting itself, especially when you dip the throttle in neutral. He also said that the rattle can lessen depending on the transmission oil being used and the temperatures of the region you´re in.

So, from my experience, the rattle doesn´t necessarily mean that there is something wrong.
 

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Just to add to this, I've had my motor for about 4 weeks now and I get the rattle on shutdown.

If I switch off with the clutch depressed, the noise isn't there. I too assumed this was something relating to the thrust bearing, but reading this thread, it appears I was wrong.

Seems it's another "feature" of these wonderful cars!!! :1:
 

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With regard to transmission oil, I have been told by an oil specialist that the use of atf in a manual gearbox is not ideal, it is usually used in order to achieve better mpg and less power loss, it is not the best option in terms of lubrication, hence chaging required more often. He mentioned that his company is woking on a light gear oil primarilly for racing use. In cars they have been running it in, it has doubled the mileage between g/box rebuilds. He suggested that it could be a good alternative to atf. Might be worth trying if you have g/box worries.
cheers,
Phil.
 
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