Many threads have discussed the handling advantages of putting the rear tires and wheels up front. BUT, no one has discussed the disadvantages. WHY NOT DO IT??
Understeering cars are safer for poor drivers. They serve as an effective speed governor/limiter in corners. A teen kid who's used to driving mom's minivan or some other plowing machine will wrap a neutral-handling car around a tree before they realize they aren't gonna hear tires howling, squealing and scrubbing.
Another issue that hasn't been mentioned is road feel and steering sensitivity. Both are compromised a bit with brute sizes.
If you are looking for better max performance on M5, the wider wheel & tire combo always is the best choice. The modest 8" front wheels are grossly overworked for the 2 ton V8 application.
Forget track. Handling has everything to do with street performance use. Switching from stagger to non-stagger setup is one of the best street modifications you can make to the M5. The increase in cornering capability is substantial and the front tires will last longer.
For street only, the performance advantages offered by the 9.5" front wheel setup far outweigh the disadvantages.
Tire rotatation is a plus. Tell her you will get 50% more life out of the $1200 you spent on tires. Payback in a couple years.
Bad thing about having a square setup? Well, you look cooler, the car performs better, you can rotate the tires, you only have to remember one set of numbers, your winter tires (using the smaller wheels) are better, cheaper, faster.
So here's the catch - and you volunteered this Jack:
You are an attorney so the facts don't matter, onlly the presentation of them
What I find interesting is that with all the M5s in the Silicon Valley area, so few of them run the rear wheels up front setup. I maybe have seen one, not counting our M5 board meets.
A couple more downsides. The clearances are tight enough that severe deflection in very high g turns can give slight rub on the extra large diameter tubes found on FSD shocks. Also, the turn-in isn't quite as crisp with the wider tires. The increased grip, however, is phenomenal.
I'm running my 4x275 setup again out of necessity because my OEM fronts are temporarily sidelined by defective belts. I'm not noticing as much rubbing as before, however (not sure why; maybe recent wheel alignment has something to do with it - anyway it's only very slight, on very big dips in the road and then only very slight rub on one side, inner fender liner, just enough to make a sound but not scratch or tear anything), and I'm enjoying the increased grip, so I think I'll just stick with this for awhile, until the present set of tires wears out. I may try 4x265s next time for clearance, and because fewer and fewer companies offer 275/35s in 18" sizes (can't find Goodyear GS-D3s or F1 Asymmetrics in 275, for example, but PS2 still come in 275).
Actually, the hardest part of convincing my wife of this was allowing me to store the other wheels/tires in the garage, thus taking up precious space! oohhh:
to those with rears on the front: how noticeable is the tramlining? On my old '02 Firehawk, which had 275-17s on all corners, tramlining in city driving (crappy NY roads) was noticeable and annoying. I haven't experienced any tramilining with the M5, nor my previous e46 M3, with the stock setup.
In my experience, tire tread pattern is a much larger factor in tramlining that tire size. My 245's used to tramline pretty badly (Pirelli's, I believe), while my 275's (General's) don't tramline even a little bit... The difference? The 275 tread pattern is a bit less "front to back" and bit more "side to side". Not sure how else to describe it except that there is a better balance between the grooves running around the circumference and those running across the tread width.
My new 9.5 OEM wheels should be here this coming week. I will be running KDW2 TA 275 tires for the street and R1s for the track.
Having had a full season of AutoX and track last year, the OEM setup was TERRIBLE for the track imo. I had a hell of a time with understeer and sharp pivot cones, etc. I'm really hoping that with the addition of good tires, 275s all around and a dinan rear sway, I'll be able to compete with those damn Miata's and E30s
to those with rears on the front: how noticeable is the tramlining? On my old '02 Firehawk, which had 275-17s on all corners, tramlining in city driving (crappy NY roads) was noticeable and annoying. I haven't experienced any tramilining with the M5, nor my previous e46 M3, with the stock setup.
Nothing much noticeable, but it does vary by your suspension settings (toe I think affects this) and the tires you run. No issues for me with Goodyear F1 GSD3s.
For those thinking the 275 setup will let you corner with the Miatas, don't forget you still have 4,000 lbs to make turn. It will, however, greatly increase your cornering grip, esp. with Dinan rear bar. I've heard this vary, but on my car, I get much greater cornering grip with the Dinan bar set to the outer holes with the 275s up front. This is especially noticeable exiting corners, where I can (so long as I'm smooth) apply lots of throttle. With the sway bar set on the middle holes, no matter how smooth I'd be, applying lots of throttle would set off the DSC or make me break traction. The middle hole setting might be faster on a track where you can countersteer with lots of runoff room, but not on the street. I suggest you at least start with the outer holes and then see what you think on your own car.
I believe that I saw something about Dinan rear wheels forward with 3mm spacers. If you can find an extra set of Dinan rear wheels....that maybe the hard part.
I believe that I saw something about Dinan rear wheels forward with 3mm spacers. If you can find an extra set of Dinan rear wheels....that maybe the hard part.
I looked into buying some new rims in November and December and they were out of stockoohhh:.
They expected more in Jan 09, but I am unsure if they came in and also there was word on the street that they were going to be different. That last piece of info. came from another board member not Dinan. So I have not looked. I am currently getting one of my front Dinan rims straightened and refinished...so I will probably stick with what I have for now. However, I have been searching but have not found any info. on the Dinan rear rims forward, but I remember something along the lines of "overkill," but that has no useful or scientific basis....so I will keep searching.
The thread is....Rubbing issues with SSR GT2 9" Wheels & 275/35 tires front and rear. Check out DRM's comment regarding Martin's original S3 running 9.5 all the way around with 3mm spacers without rubbing issues.
Thread was started March 17, 2007 by jcrist
Sorry not very good with the computer, should learn how to import the thread.
So, if you find the thread in another browser window, jsut click on the address bar so the whole address for this ther thread is highlighted. Press 'Control C' for "copy", then go to your new post you are editing and press 'Control V' for "Paste"... it will place the address in the new post...no need for any special codes, etc...the vbulletin will know it is an address and will automatically make it a link!
Wow! A comprehensive thread on 9.5 x 18 Dinan wheels on the front! I sensed a little bit of ambiguity, though, on whether the 3mm spacers suffice or whether 5mm are required.
Dan, did you ever get confirmation of what size spacers Steve Dinan used with 9.5s on the front?
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