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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've been doing some checking today about the availability of R-Compound tyres that will be suitable for track days,

In short.

The current options were to either run the 265 PS cups all round or the elusive Pirelli Pzero Corsa system.

Pirelli: I have been trying to get the Pzero Corasa for some time and the 285's were not available, but I managed to get 295's, but the 255's were on back order, they were due to be put into production between the 11 - 17 April 08. I have now been told today that production for the 255's have now been put back with no expected date. The 255/40's have also been removed from the web site. So Im guessing they will no longer be available. However, the 255/35 may be a possibility but I have been told different stories from 4-5 months and they are currently in production.:confused:


Michelin: Pilot Sport Cups 265 and 305 currently availble in 19's and just spoke to someone at Michelin and there are NO plans on bringing additional sizes in 19's out. I asked if anyone else would know, he said, he is the person that would know and there have not been any plans to make any other sizes.

Toyo R888: currently 235/35 295/30 305/30 all in 19". The 265/30/R19 were due to be available in late April, but they were delayed and are expected to be availabe at the end of May, early June.:applause: I'll contact them again in a couple of weeks just to make sure.;)

Not looking too good for 19" wheels. Though the Toyo look to be the best bet, unless you want to run the 305, 265 PS Cup set-up.

Not sure if a 305 will work on a 10" wheel, Michelin said it needed a minimum of 10.5", has anyone tried it on a 10" wheel.?



And to top it all I need new tyres for the road and PS2's are not available in 255/40:grrrr: at the moment...
 

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That Hoosier combo sounds pretty decent.

As for 305 on a 10" wheel, I don't know anybody that would advise it. I'm sure you could, but I'm running 305s on 10.5" RAC Monolites and they are just the right fit IMO. The RACs are made to run anything from 285-305 wide, although there are a couple track junkies that I think are running 325s on the same wheel.
 

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For what's its worth, a Michelin rep told me last summer they are bringing out three new 19" Pilot Sports sometime during 2008, in response to the new performance cars equipped with factory 19" rubber, M3 and new STS-V to name two. Perhaps the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing?

In an interview, a Pirelli official said the 19" Corsas for our Ms had been discontinued for some time and if you found any, make sure they weren't too old to be safe.

HRE rep told me a 10.5 X 19" rear wheel is needed for the 305s.

If you can't wait, perhaps a shaved set of PS2s would work?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
For what's its worth, a Michelin rep told me last summer they are bringing out three new 19" Pilot Sports sometime during 2008, in response to the new performance cars equipped with factory 19" rubber, M3 and new STS-V to name two. Perhaps the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing?

In an interview, a Pirelli official said the 19" Corsas for our Ms had been discontinued for some time and if you found any, make sure they weren't too old to be safe.

HRE rep told me a 10.5 X 19" rear wheel is needed for the 305s.

If you can't wait, perhaps a shaved set of PS2s would work?
I spoke to someone in the technical department at Michelin and when he said no others tyres in 19's for the cups I did press him and he was adament that he would be the person that would know and there is nothing planned. Lets hope it is the left and right hand scenario

Ref the Corsas, it is a shame, I knew the 285's were difficult to get, but they managed to get hold of some 295/30/19 (production date was late 2007), but cannot get the 255/40. I should be able to find out in the next week or so if they have indeed made any 255/35/19.

I want to go with the R888's just frustrating they have put the date back till May/June. I guess I will have to wait.

Advantage the R888's have over the hoosiers is that the R888 will still have some traction in the wet. I'm guessing that the Hoosiers are a definate No No in the wet but they may be worth a try at some stage...

I should have my Dymags in a couple of weeks and now they are going to be naked for a while.:grrrrr: Unfortuantely dymag would not do a 10.5 x 19" wheel so I've gone with 10", mainly because I want to run the R888's
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Just in case people are not familiar with the R888 here is a review.

 

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New Pilot Sport Cup "+"

I just got a new 19" version of the Pilot Sport Cups that I thought was interesting. The last few I've had were the run of the mill PSC 265s. I put them on all four corners. They looked a little stretched on the rears and straight up and down on the fronts. The odd thing is, according to Michelin, they are the correct size for the rears, but too wide for the fronts? :dunno: Well anyway, I corded the rear two on my last day and spoke to a guy at TireRack who convinced me to try something new.

They have a new tire called Pilot Sport Cup "+". It is an XL tire supposedly designed for BMW. The guy talked me into taking my 2 relatively new 265 non-"+" PSCs off the fronts and putting them on the rear. Then ordering two new "+" PSCs in 245 and putting those on the fronts. The theory being the "+" tire is designed with a stiffer sidewall and will hold up better to roll.

Well the "+" tires arrived and they really are different. First off, the sidewalls are noticeably reinforced. Second, the gaps between treads are much wider. I don't get that because I'd think more contact patch would be better but maybe it has something to do with cooling the tire? :dunno: I'll take a picture of it when I get home and then post about how they run in a few weeks.

The "+" version are available in 245/35/19 and 265/35/19, and 245/30/20 and 315/25/20.

Currently Available Prices and Sizes
 

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I just got a new 19" version of the Pilot Sport Cups that I thought was interesting.
Interested hearing how they work on a track.
 

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Service Descriptions

PSC vs PS2 - Load rating differences.

PSC

245/35ZR19 - 93Y XL load index 1433 <abbr title="Pounds">lbs </abbr>@50 <abbr title="Pounds per square inch">psi</abbr>

265/35ZR19 - 98Y XL load index 1653 <abbr title="Pounds">lbs </abbr>@50 <abbr title="Pounds per square inch">psi</abbr>


PS2

255/40ZR19 - 96Y (OE BMW) 1565 <abbr title="Pounds">lbs </abbr>@51 <abbr title="Pounds per square inch">psi</abbr>

285/35ZR19 - 99Y (OE BMW) 1708<abbr title="Pounds"> lbs </abbr>@51 <abbr title="Pounds per square inch">psi

Optional Sizes

Front

</abbr>255/40ZR19 - 100Y XL 1764 lbs @ 50 psi

275/35ZR19 - <abbr title="Pounds"></abbr><abbr title="Pounds per square inch"></abbr> 100Y XL 1764<abbr title="Pounds"> lbs </abbr>@50 <abbr title="Pounds per square inch">psi</abbr>

Rear

305/30ZR19 - 102Y XL 1874 lbs @ 50 psi<abbr title="Pounds per square inch">


Tire Specs for Michelin Pilot Sport PS2

Pilot® Sport Cup: Browse Tires in Ultra-High Performance Sport: MICHELIN® Tires: Michelin Tires

Pilot® Sport PS2™: Browse Tires in Ultra-High Performance Sport: MICHELIN® Tires: Michelin Tires


PSCs will offer better traction no doubt. Wonder how shaved PS2s in alternative sizes would compare? I'm currently running </abbr>255/40ZR19- 100Y XL fronts and notice better grip than the standard rated tires.
 

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How do the Toyos feel after a bit of wear? I know the Mich PS2's feel good through out their life, whereas other tires have felt great initially, but after a bit of wear really lose their traction.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
How do the Toyos feel after a bit of wear? I know the Mich PS2's feel good through out their life, whereas other tires have felt great initially, but after a bit of wear really lose their traction.
I'm running the Toyo R888's
295/30 19 rear
265/30 19 front

I use these for track use only.

PS2's and R888 do not compare, you would need to compare the Michellin PS Cups

I have 2 degrees of neg camber and I'm still getting wear on the outside edge of the front R888 tyres (though they appear not to be rolling over), apart from that they are wearing well. I would not recommend them for daily use on the road, the tyre noise alone would drive you mad, never mind the wear. On a track, they are great.

The tyres do feel good, though I do think that the side walls are not as stiff as you would have thought, but the 30 profile helps.
 

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"New" Pilot Sport Cup update

I just got back from two days at the Glen. The first day was wet, so I was running the Contis for most of the day and I didn't really push the PSCs once I put them on for the second half of day 1.

But on the second day we had dry conditions (although cool ~60 degrees F) and I ran the new 245 XL up front and the 'old' 265 in the rear. I snapped a couple of pictures of the tread difference, which I will post later, but there are MUCH wider grooves in the new version and a stiffer sidewall.

As for performance, I'd say the 245 'new' style XL load PSC was a spot off from the 'old' style 265 when run up front. Now this can be the obvious fact of it being 20MM narrower or it could be the wider grooves (less contact patch), or both. But it wasn't that noticeable.

As for wear, MUCH better. I put in a little more negative camber than last time out, which undoubtedly helped, but it was just nice even wear up front with very little noticeable roll wear. These tires are definitely better suited for our heavy cars. Where I was previously throwing out the old style PSCs with tread left in the middle and corded on the outside, the new XL version looks like it will wear even throughout its life.

I ran about 40-41 psi hot up front, a little more on the side that was taking most of the turns, but keeping it around 40 seemed to get a nice even contact patch. Now before anyone goes blasting me for running high psi, I got these numbers from Michelin's guide to running Pilot Sport Cups. The optimum range is 32-36 hot BUT you need to add psi to compensate for speed. The M5 will pull up to about 160 indicated at Watkins Glen, which calls for a 5 psi increase without any reduction in load capacity. So assuming the actual speed was less than indicated, say in the 150 range, running around 40 would be about spot on. The max is 50 so there shouldn't be any issue.

I attached the guide, which is old and doesn't show the new sizes, but it should be helpful for those running Pilot Sport Cups.
 

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