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Discussion Starter #1
Hi @ all,

I tried via search button but did not found the information.

Can anyone tell me the tech data of the oem DSP amp of my GreenBeast built 2002 (with M-audio)?

- max. output
- rms output
- frequency
- distortion factor

Especially I am looking for the output (I know it is already low, but how much is it?)
 

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I don't know the specs of the factory amp, but board sponsor Bavarian Soundwerks might have them. You could try emailing or calling Halston at bavsound.
 

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Hi @ all,

I tried via search button but did not found the information.

Can anyone tell me the tech data of the oem DSP amp of my GreenBeast built 2002 (with M-audio)?

- max. output
- rms output
- frequency
- distortion factor

Especially I am looking for the output (I know it is already low, but how much is it?)
You can check the specs on the data sheet I have attached. These are the IC poweramps that BMW uses in the DSP. But unfortunately, they are for 8 ohm speaker loads and not the 4 ohm loads in the car. I would expect to see more power for the 4 ohm loads, but higher distortion at full power.

Also, the power and distortion and low frequency bandwidth are a function of the capacitors that are connected to the amps. I had mine open the other day, but don't remember the cap readings. See the data sheet for more details.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thank you for your replies -

I think the data sheet from dhl93449 will help. :cheers:

I don´t know which amp is implemented in my Beast (Phillips or Loewe) but

I heard that the later amps - built by LOEWE and later from 2003 by LEAR have more power and sound much greater.

Are there any data sheets from this amps?
 

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Thank you for your replies -

I think the data sheet from dhl93449 will help. :cheers:

I don´t know which amp is implemented in my Beast (Phillips or Loewe) but

I heard that the later amps - built by LOEWE and later from 2003 by LEAR have more power and sound much greater.

Are there any data sheets from this amps?
I think my DSP was built by LEAR, but I cannot be certain. I would bet that the basic desigin is the same irrespective of manufacturer, but I cannot confirm this. The only way to be sure is to pull the covers off the amp and look.

I can say that the design of these IC power amps is so unique, that to substitute something else would require a significant re-design of the entire amp. These IC's only require a "singel ended" power supply, like +12v to operate. Almost every other IC power amp I know of needs a dual ended supply, like +/- 24V. Dual ended supplies are usually used to create a symetric output around ground, and to produce a high enough voltage to get decent power into a speaker load. These Phillips ICs produce their own negative power supply voltage by storing charge in a capacitor and using a solid state switch to flip the terminals. And they do this as a function of power demand and signal level. Very unique. So I doubt it if you are going to see two different designs for the DSP, even though there may be more than one manufacturer. For the same reason, I would doubt if one sounds better than another since they all probably use the same power ICs.
 

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Thank you for your replies -

I think the data sheet from dhl93449 will help. :cheers:

I don´t know which amp is implemented in my Beast (Phillips or Loewe) but

I heard that the later amps - built by LOEWE and later from 2003 by LEAR have more power and sound much greater.

Are there any data sheets from this amps?
This sounds like wishful thinking to me....

d-
 

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dhl - did you double check impedance at the speakers? Admittedly I'm non-M Audio, but I'm pretty sure I'm 8 ohm...

d-
I only checked the front three drivers (tweet, mid, mid-bass 5.25) in the left and right doors. The OEM tweeter is 8 ohms, the other two are 4 ohms. BSW actually replaces the tweeter with a 4 ohm driver, as did I. I used a CDC .75" silk dome tweeter. When I first took the OEM speaker out, I was surprised to see an 8 ohm driver, so I called BSW about their use of 4 ohms here, as I was concerned about load on the amp. But they said they worked fine, and since there is very little power sent to this driver with real music signals, it won't have a major impact on the amp. My system is working fine with the 4 ohm CDC, although I am not a 110 dB level kind of guy (never use "11" on the volume nob). For the lower midrange and bass drivers, you cannot get enough power with 8 ohm drivers (in fact it's 1/2 of what you can get with the same output voltage swing and a 4 ohm driver).
 

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Discussion Starter #10
This sounds like wishful thinking to me....

d-
If you believe strong enough your wishes will come up to reality ... :3:

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=114157


@dhl93449:
thank you for your informations.

I ask because I plan to change the speakers.
On inquiry at Rainbow Germany showed that they won´t make an offer including the speakers which are offered by BSW because the IQ line do not fit to the oem bmw audio systems. Changing the speakers to Rainbow would result in changing the radio (amp).
Rainbow said that they only deliver the speakers themselves to BSW - wirings and adapters are produced by BSW.

I can not understand why the IQ line should not fit the m-audio system ... :confused2
 

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So help me out here, (not a car audio guy) I have the "M Audio" dsp set-up. how do I change out the amp (or add) for a better one? Or can't I?
 

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So help me out here, (not a car audio guy) I have the "M Audio" dsp set-up. how do I change out the amp (or add) for a better one? Or can't I?
Here - this should help. There are 6 sections.

The summary is this: Removing existing DSP amp. Modify wiring harness to provide RCA's. Replace component speakers. Wire in new amp and component speaker crossovers.

All clear? :)

d-
 

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If you believe strong enough your wishes will come up to reality ... :3:

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=114157


@dhl93449:
thank you for your informations.

I ask because I plan to change the speakers.
On inquiry at Rainbow Germany showed that they won´t make an offer including the speakers which are offered by BSW because the IQ line do not fit to the oem bmw audio systems. Changing the speakers to Rainbow would result in changing the radio (amp).
Rainbow said that they only deliver the speakers themselves to BSW - wirings and adapters are produced by BSW.

I can not understand why the IQ line should not fit the m-audio system ... :confused2
I think it does, if you order the BSW versions. But recall that BSW does not replace all three speakers in the front channel. Only the tweeter and the lower 5.25" mid bass driver. The "midrange" 1" driver that is mounted on a bridge over the 5.25" mid bass driver is re-used in the BSW set-up. That is probably why Rainbow says they cannot supply all the drivers, which is true if you include the mid range driver.

I zoned in my post above, the replacement drivers I am using are CDT drivers (not CDC). They make a 2" upper midrange driver (model HD-2), but you cannot mount this in the original door positions.
 

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Danke!

Here - this should help. There are 6 sections.

The summary is this: Removing existing DSP amp. Modify wiring harness to provide RCA's. Replace component speakers. Wire in new amp and component speaker crossovers.

All clear? :)

d-
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Here is the information about wattage which I got from BMW Partner Service (I named vin no. of my car in my inquiry):

Sehr geehrter Herr xx,

nochmals vielen Dank für Ihr e-mail.

Gerne übermitteln wir Ihnen folgende technische Informationen, die uns zur Verfügung stehen:
  • 8 Kanäle (SW + TT) mit jeweils 25 Watt an 8 Ohm.
  • 6 Kanäle (MT + HT) mit jeweils 15 Watt an 4 Ohm.
Wir hoffen hiermit geholfen zu haben und verbleiben
<X-SIGSEP>
</X-SIGSEP>mit freundlichen Grüßen

Bettina Radauer
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
BMW Partner Service
Postfach 80
5024 Salzburg
Tel. 0800 21 55 55
Fax 0662 64 89 48
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Im Auftrag von BMW Austria Gesellschaft m. b. H.
Firmenbuch: FN 33985d, LG Salzburg
DVR: 0078565
www.BMW.at
 

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Here is the information about wattage which I got from BMW Partner Service (I named vin no. of my car in my inquiry):

Sehr geehrter Herr xx,

nochmals vielen Dank für Ihr e-mail.

Gerne übermitteln wir Ihnen folgende technische Informationen, die uns zur Verfügung stehen:
  • 8 Kanäle (SW + TT) mit jeweils 25 Watt an 8 Ohm.
  • 6 Kanäle (MT + HT) mit jeweils 15 Watt an 4 Ohm.
Wir hoffen hiermit geholfen zu haben und verbleiben
<X-SIGSEP>
</X-SIGSEP>mit freundlichen Grüßen

Bettina Radauer
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
BMW Partner Service
Postfach 80
5024 Salzburg
Tel. 0800 21 55 55
Fax 0662 64 89 48
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Im Auftrag von BMW Austria Gesellschaft m. b. H.
Firmenbuch: FN 33985d, LG Salzburg
DVR: 0078565
[URL="http://www.BMW.at"]www.BMW.at[/URL]
Translation please! My Deutche is pretty rusty, but these power levels look very low for a "high end" audio system.
 

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Translation please! My Deutche is pretty rusty, but these power levels look very low for a "high end" audio system.
Not really...if you look at test results for say multi-channel AV receivers, many rated at 100 w/ch (seven channels) will deliver only in the range of 40 w/ch RMS or less., all channels driven I have a dead DSP amp and have looked inside - it's hard to imagine 14x40/50 w/ch coming out of that box when a 40lb AV receiver struggles to produce that much power from half the number of channels.
 

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Not really...if you look at test results for say multi-channel AV receivers, many rated at 100 w/ch (seven channels) will deliver only in the range of 40 w/ch RMS or less., all channels driven I have a dead DSP amp and have looked inside - it's hard to imagine 14x40/50 w/ch coming out of that box when a 40lb AV receiver struggles to produce that much power from half the number of channels.
I don't consider many multi-channel DSP amps to be high end audio. How can an amp be "rated" for 100 W/CH but deliver only 40? Seems to me the rating is bogus in that case. Plus, if the power levels he cited above are right, they are putting out lower power at 4 ohms than at 8 ohms, which probably indicates high distortion levels at 4 ohms and an inability for the amps to produce enough current. You are right in observing that the power dissipation capability of the DSP amp seems high for the packaging, but with actual music the peak to RMS levels are about 10:1. So if you are hitting 40W peaks, you are running about 4 W RMS, which is why the thermal load is not that big of a deal. But if the amp cannot produce the peaks without distortion, then the percieved volume and depth is negatively affected.
 
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