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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All,

I have been doing some searches to find out issues with the earlier 89/90 HD01 models and what improvements were done to the newer models.

Just want to reiterate that i am only seeking information in relation the euro spec 3.6 HD91 cars.

I apologize in advance if this has been discussed before but I was not able to find this information :dunno:.

If this has indeed been discussed before please just forward me the link to the thread.

Cheers,
Rob
 

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Thanks but I have arleady been to that site. It does not specifically speak to issues and defects that early HD91 models were susceptible to.

I need something more in detail.

Cheers,
Rob
what issues and defects are you referring to?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
what issues and defects are you referring to?

This is exactly what I don't know. usually first year production cars have some issues that they rectify in the subsequent years.

So I am not talking about any cosmetic changes but more mechanical changes.


Rob.
 

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I have heard that the cooling system was revised on later cars. The early 3.6 suffering from a hard to bleed heater matrix / heater control valves.
 

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Later ones had a different clutch from the factory that was easier on the left leg.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
I do remember that there were some other small changes as well, but cant recall just now.<o:p></o:p>
They also made a slight change in the ECU programming, cause some of the earlier cars apparently had some sort of a flat spot when changing gears very fast and hitting the accelerator pedal again. It would bog first according to them. There is a video of all these things somewhere on Youtube. The first car these particular journos tested was a red one and the later “still B36” revised one was white.
Oh yes, and the M system II covers became available.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
 

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The early 3.6's also had a different crank damper set-up - using one centre bolt (the rubber around which can die and cause vibrations & timing issues) rather than the multiple bolts of later models.
 

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I've got a 1990 model as well. Quite interested to know what things can go wrong in d earlier models. D crank dampers now get me worried. Especially when I pull on it quite often.

But i know my model does not have a 02 sensor. So i'm not sure if it's a curse or blessing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Later ones had a different clutch from the factory that was easier on the left leg.ffice:eek:ffice" /><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" /><o:p></o:p>
I do remember that there were some other small changes as well, but cant recall just now.<o:p></o:p>
They also made a slight change in the ECU programming, cause some of the earlier cars apparently had some sort of a flat spot when changing gears very fast and hitting the accelerator pedal again. It would bog first according to them. There is a video of all these things somewhere on Youtube. The first car these particular journos tested was a red one and the later “still B36” revised one was white.
Oh yes, and the M system II covers became available.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Thanks for the info. Do you know by any chance what the name of that video was? or what to search for, i haven't had any luck finding it.

Cheers,
Rob
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The early 3.6's also had a different crank damper set-up - using one centre bolt (the rubber around which can die and cause vibrations & timing issues) rather than the multiple bolts of later models.
When do you say "later models" do you have a specific year where this changed?

Cheers,
Rob
 

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When do you say "later models" do you have a specific year where this changed?

Cheers,
Rob
IIRC it was late 1989/early 1990 that it changed (11231315148), and then it changed again on the 3.8s (11231318076).

The change of part numbers on the ETK should point to the exact month, but I believe there was a period when both were used. Mine was a UK spec HD92 Feb 1990 model and had the single bolt version on (11231315148) compared to the later multi-bolt version (11231318076)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
thanks everyone for all of your inputs. Now with all that has been said are these changes significant enough not to buy an 1989 production year car?in other words will those early year cars have more maintenance issues down the road?

Cheers
rob
 

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thanks everyone for all of your inputs. Now with all that has been said are these changes significant enough not to buy an 1989 production year car?in other words will those early year cars have more maintenance issues down the road?
As long as you go into the purchase recognising the differences, then you should have no problem.

Just don't go and buy a 22 year old car expecting to run it as a daily driver for pennies, as you will be running/maintaining a £50k car no matter what you end up paying for it - and new parts can only become harder & harder to source.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
As long as you go into the purchase recognising the differences, then you should have no problem.

Just don't go and buy a 22 year old car expecting to run it as a daily driver for pennies, as you will be running/maintaining a £50k car no matter what you end up paying for it - and new parts can only become harder & harder to source.
well i do recognize there are differences and it costs money to maintain these cars.what i do not understand is how important these changes are and if they can impact maintenance costs significantly.
So comparing apples to apples should one pay less for a low milage well maintained 89 model vs a 91 in the same comparable condition?or are they close enough so that it really would not make a difference in terms of price?
 

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rstringer said:
So comparing apples to apples should one pay less for a low milage well maintained 89 model vs a 91 in the same comparable condition?or are they close enough so that it really would not make a difference in terms of price?
All in, they'll cost about the same to run. There'll probably be something that is cheaper on the earlier car that will be balanced by something that costs slightly more on the later car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
All in, they'll cost about the same to run. There'll probably be something that is cheaper on the earlier car that will be balanced by something that costs slightly more on the later car.
I see. Thanks for the info. So another question is where do you guys get your information from about all these changes? Is off websites or can one actually contact bmw and get an exact list of changes applied to a certain model car?

Some people including yourself seem to have all these detailed information and I wonder where you guys go for this kind of stuff?

Cheers,
Rob
 

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There is no substitute for experience Rob .

MMMMMMMMM5555555 has had a couple of E34 M5s , including a big brake 6 speed 3.8 and an earlier 3.6 that now belongs to another board member , Sub8 .

Owning these cars leads to a number of memorable issues !

This forum is probably the best E34 M5 related source of reliable info on the internet !

D
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
There is no substitute for experience Rob .

MMMMMMMMM5555555 has had a couple of E34 M5s , including a big brake 6 speed 3.8 and an earlier 3.6 that now belongs to another board member , Sub8 .

Owning these cars leads to a number of memorable issues !

This forum is probably the best E34 M5 related source of reliable info on the internet !

D
I can appreciate that, but still the information must come from a source. I would like to know what that source is. I have already e-mailed BmW germany in the hopes that they will be able to provide this information.

Cheers,
Rob
 

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I can appreciate that, but still the information must come from a source. I would like to know what that source is. I have already e-mailed BmW germany in the hopes that they will be able to provide this information.
My information comes from various 'sources', but mainly down to trial and error over the 8 years I ran an e34 M5.

For example, I'd put my VIN number into the parts database and order the part based on that.

The part would come and I'd take the old one off to see that the number was different to that on the new part. Not a problem, as parts are regularly superseded and numbers changed. However, the new part will not fit (e.g. bolt holes in the wrong place). Back to the BMW parts department and they confirm I have the right part, but are willing to check the old number. The old number claims to be from an e28, but there's a little note stating it was used for a couple of months on the e34 too.

I doubt BMW are going to give you an exact list of everything that's changed, and you'll either have to ask specific questions on here relating to specific components, or wait until something fails and then get the part number.

However, the parts are 'normally' superseded by a better part (although sometimes it's cost-saving decision such as the metal to plastic impeller change in the water pump), and a later car will have most of the 'upgrades'. This does not mean the later car is necessarily less prone to failure, as you'll have 20 years of use/misuse to contend with where an older car might have been better maintained.

As a quick list, here's some items I found different between the early 3.6, later 3.6, early 3.8 and late 3.8 (and probably lots of others I've forgotten):
  • Alternator
  • Air-con compressor
  • Cooling & heating system (water pump, thermostat, etc.)
  • Ignition system
  • Exhaust system
  • Clutch & flywheel
  • Seats/interior trim
  • Brakes
  • Wheels
  • Suspension
 
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