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But more traction at wet conditions and winter and also from launch :sad2:
As nice that may be, I'm sure that is what the X5M and X6M are for. I'm sorry but I can't really hear your interview and his comments concerning the xDrive.

So... was Dr. Kay saying that xDrive is a strong possibilty of being in the F10 M5 or is it?
 

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Winning formula huh? I sure hope so :) It's just that no other M model in the past (that I know of) ever had all wheel drive except for the newer X5M and X6M which are exceptions.

I mean I understand the need for traction due to the torque but AWD will always add weight. Not only that it will also negatively AFFECT the top end power of the M5. Will it pull harder or not when compared to now older E60 high revving M5 V10????

Exactly.
 

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I really just cared about hearing his response about the carbon fiber roof :sad1:. I like it alot better than the e60 (besides the absurd size of it), anything to make it lighter is really appealing.
 

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Sounds like a bad idea to me. Xdrive would only benefit performance from a standstill and would penalize everywhere else with the extra weight and power sap.
Porsche seems to be able to do it with their Panamera Turbo, curb weight 4343 lbs. Why can't BMW?? Their 550i XDrive is 4,519 lbs!!!

I'm thinking the reason is probably that they designed the Panamera chassis to be a $90K car, whereas the 5 series chassis is a $60K car. I'm hoping that the M folks have incorporated enough carbon fiber and aluminum to get the weight down below 4,300 lbs, but I'm not counting on it.

Honestly at this point, the only thing tipping me in favor of the Panamera is the weight and the 4wd. It's certainly not the looks. But if the M guys can't get this car down below 4,300 lbs, then it's going to be a tough decision. If it's over 4,400 I'm probably going to be driving a Porsche.
 

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Porsche seems to be able to do it with their Panamera Turbo, curb weight 4343 lbs. Why can't BMW?? Their 550i XDrive is 4,519 lbs!!!

I'm thinking the reason is probably that they designed the Panamera chassis to be a $90K car, whereas the 5 series chassis is a $60K car. I'm hoping that the M folks have incorporated enough carbon fiber and aluminum to get the weight down below 4,300 lbs, but I'm not counting on it.

Honestly at this point, the only thing tipping me in favor of the Panamera is the weight and the 4wd. It's certainly not the looks. But if the M guys can't get this car down below 4,300 lbs, then it's going to be a tough decision. If it's over 4,400 I'm probably going to be driving a Porsche.
Wolverine,

You are dead on, Porsche did it but their chasis weighs less, because that is their goal not refitting a high volume production car. Their chasis and everything else is done with weight in mind. The door frames are magnesium, most of the body and suspension components are aluminum. With the S at something like 3900 and the 4S at 4100, heavy by Porsche standard but light compared to the competition.

I have driven both the Panamera Turbo and the Panamera 4S and I like the 4wd. I like the power of the turbo but the 4s is a much better driving car and I believe it is because of the weight difference and balance. Reminds me of the difference between a 997 turbo vs. GT3.

As a long time M5 guy who has had e39s and e60s, the Panamera is the best driving saloon car I have ever driven. Fit and finish is top notch. The only problem is you have to get in and out of the car and see that rear end.
 

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Porsche seems to be able to do it with their Panamera Turbo, curb weight 4343 lbs. Why can't BMW?? Their 550i XDrive is 4,519 lbs!!!

I'm thinking the reason is probably that they designed the Panamera chassis to be a $90K car, whereas the 5 series chassis is a $60K car. I'm hoping that the M folks have incorporated enough carbon fiber and aluminum to get the weight down below 4,300 lbs, but I'm not counting on it.

Honestly at this point, the only thing tipping me in favor of the Panamera is the weight and the 4wd. It's certainly not the looks. But if the M guys can't get this car down below 4,300 lbs, then it's going to be a tough decision. If it's over 4,400 I'm probably going to be driving a Porsche.
I got hung up on talking about the Porsche I forgot to get to my point.

BMW probably can't do much special with the 5-series chasis for the M5 without going through safety re-testing. I asked a BMW engineer why they don't make the M5 chassis and body out of aluminum to shave weight since the cost of aluminum while more expensive than steel could easily be passed on to the consumer in this kind of car. He told me that the cost was not in the materials but in re-engineering, testing, and crash testing a car that has a small production number.

Adding 4wd to the M5 will make most likely make it weight greater than 4,500 lbs. That would be a deal breaker for me.
 

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I got hung up on talking about the Porsche I forgot to get to my point.

BMW probably can't do much special with the 5-series chasis for the M5 without going through safety re-testing. I asked a BMW engineer why they don't make the M5 chassis and body out of aluminum to shave weight since the cost of aluminum while more expensive than steel could easily be passed on to the consumer in this kind of car. He told me that the cost was not in the materials but in re-engineering, testing, and crash testing a car that has a small production number.

Adding 4wd to the M5 will make most likely make it weight greater than 4,500 lbs. That would be a deal breaker for me.
But knowing that all these new safety features were going to add weight to the 5 series, they should have put more effort into weight loss on the ENTIRE LINE. The F10 5 series heaviness numbs the driver experience compared to the E60.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Wow!

Im fooled by the looks of it, it looks so huge. Difficult thinking it is nimble.

As a long time M5 guy who has had e39s and e60s, the Panamera is the best driving saloon car I have ever driven. Fit and finish is top notch. The only problem is you have to get in and out of the car and see that rear end.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
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