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I have MY2000, friend of mine just bought the 2005 Pontiac GTO. It has a standard transmission, and a All-aluminum 6.0L Gen IV LS2 V8 engine with 400 hp and 400 lb-ft torque.

I raced him, with about a 5mph rolling start, 3-times, and then we switched cars, and did it again. Each time the GTO beat the M5! Not by a huge amount...maybe 1.5 to 2 car lengths. Aarrggghhhhh can you say super-charge me!?!??!?! I guess the GTO is a lot lighter than the 4-door sedan M5.

So be careful out there...if you have a stock M5, watch out for those GTO's! I wonder if I could shoehorn the new V-10????

hmmm
 

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M5Pageco said:
I have MY2000, friend of mine just bought the 2005 Pontiac GTO. It has a standard transmission, and a All-aluminum 6.0L Gen IV LS2 V8 engine with 400 hp and 400 lb-ft torque.

I raced him, with about a 5mph rolling start, 3-times, and then we switched cars, and did it again. Each time the GTO beat the M5! Not by a huge amount...maybe 1.5 to 2 car lengths. Aarrggghhhhh can you say super-charge me!?!??!?! I guess the GTO is a lot lighter than the 4-door sedan M5.

So be careful out there...if you have a stock M5, watch out for those GTO's! I wonder if I could shoehorn the new V-10????

hmmm
You can buy a new GTO for less than the cost of a V10 motor. Why not rebadge the GTO...they almost look like an M6?
 

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M5Pageco said:
I have MY2000, friend of mine just bought the 2005 Pontiac GTO. It has a standard transmission, and a All-aluminum 6.0L Gen IV LS2 V8 engine with 400 hp and 400 lb-ft torque.

I raced him, with about a 5mph rolling start, 3-times, and then we switched cars, and did it again. Each time the GTO beat the M5! Not by a huge amount...maybe 1.5 to 2 car lengths. Aarrggghhhhh can you say super-charge me!?!??!?! I guess the GTO is a lot lighter than the 4-door sedan M5.

So be careful out there...if you have a stock M5, watch out for those GTO's! I wonder if I could shoehorn the new V-10????

hmmm
Revist your bud in about one year and try again. My guess is the results will not be the same.
 

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dmccrary90025 said:
Revist your bud in about one year and try again. My guess is the results will not be the same.
I agree. The GTO will undoubtedly get faster after it gets some miles on it & breaks in. :1:

My stock domestic V8 car will produce the same 1/4 mi timeslips as Motor Trend claimed in 1988. It currently has 285K mi and the engine has never been rebuilt. It uses no oil either. It's been my experience that USA domestic V8 motors are good for 300K+ miles if the oil is changed every 25K mi or so. After watching 7 year old Nikasil V8 motors croak at 80K mi, BMW does not get any awards for V8 engine longevity. The '96 and up alusil designs seem to be proving themselves.
 

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M5Pageco said:
I have MY2000, friend of mine just bought the 2005 Pontiac GTO. It has a standard transmission, and a All-aluminum 6.0L Gen IV LS2 V8 engine with 400 hp and 400 lb-ft torque.

I raced him, with about a 5mph rolling start, 3-times, and then we switched cars, and did it again. Each time the GTO beat the M5! Not by a huge amount...maybe 1.5 to 2 car lengths. Aarrggghhhhh can you say super-charge me!?!??!?! I guess the GTO is a lot lighter than the 4-door sedan M5.

So be careful out there...if you have a stock M5, watch out for those GTO's! I wonder if I could shoehorn the new V-10????

hmmm
Your GTO's are actually Australian built Monaro's with as you say the LS2. They are pretty popular over here also, even though they are cheaper in the US market even AFTER the shipping and such like it taken into account.
http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=12001
http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vz/main.asp?link=main/gto.html

The jury is still out on the build quality though, and it'll never martch the presence or 'oooohhhhh' factor of the M5.
 

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Lscman said:
I agree. The GTO will undoubtedly get faster after it gets some miles on it & breaks in. :1:

My stock domestic V8 car will produce the same 1/4 mi timeslips as Motor Trend claimed in 1988. It currently has 285K mi and the engine has never been rebuilt. It uses no oil either. It's been my experience that USA domestic V8 motors are good for 300K+ miles if the oil is changed every 25K mi or so. After watching 7 year old Nikasil V8 motors croak at 80K mi, BMW does not get any awards for V8 engine longevity. The '96 and up alusil designs seem to be proving themselves.
Maybe it will be better. I have had my share of American V-8s (last was a '69 Cougar- Cleveland). Olsmobiles were frightening (454). However, as far as I recall, they (American V8s) tend to deteriorate as they do not have the tolerances of a German engine, with age. As you know, that was where I was heading. Of course, the point is who wants to just be a dragster. I'd say, lets get em a track and see who's the daddy! ;)
 

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dmccrary90025 said:
Maybe it will be better. I have had my share of American V-8s (last was a '69 Cougar- Cleveland). Olsmobiles were frightening (454). However, as far as I recall, they (American V8s) tend to deteriorate as they do not have the tolerances of a German engine, with age. As you know, that was where I was heading. Of course, the point is who wants to just be a dragster. I'd say, lets get em a track and see who's the daddy! ;)
Couldn't agree more ... Its not the straights you have to worry about .. its the S's at the end of them ;)
 

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aaronmiles said:
Your GTO's are actually Australian built Monaro's with as you say the LS2. They are pretty popular over here also, even though they are cheaper in the US market even AFTER the shipping and such like it taken into account.
http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=12001
http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vz/main.asp?link=main/gto.html

The jury is still out on the build quality though, and it'll never martch the presence or 'oooohhhhh' factor of the M5.
So its a Mad Max thang goin on under the hood, huh? RIght on!
 

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dmccrary90025 said:
So its a Mad Max thang goin on under the hood, huh? RIght on!
Hahha... you have to be careful of us pesky australians ;)
 

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Lscman said:
I agree. The GTO will undoubtedly get faster after it gets some miles on it & breaks in. :1:

My stock domestic V8 car will produce the same 1/4 mi timeslips as Motor Trend claimed in 1988. It currently has 285K mi and the engine has never been rebuilt. It uses no oil either. It's been my experience that USA domestic V8 motors are good for 300K+ miles if the oil is changed every 25K mi or so. After watching 7 year old Nikasil V8 motors croak at 80K mi, BMW does not get any awards for V8 engine longevity. The '96 and up alusil designs seem to be proving themselves.
Yea but its a feaken pontiac. Who cares. Actually now that I think of it it looks like the E60, and for $75,000.00 less to boot! Perhaps I'll buy one and put an M5 badge on it...
 

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rebel1 said:
Yea but its a feaken pontiac. Who cares. Actually now that I think of it it looks like the E60, and for $75,000.00 less to boot! Perhaps I'll buy one and put an M5 badge on it...
Crackin, the new Lotus comin to the states will have the S62 engine! I don't see them putting a domestic V-8 in that handling monster.
 

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dmccrary90025 said:
Maybe it will be better. I have had my share of American V-8s (last was a '69 Cougar- Cleveland). Olsmobiles were frightening (454). However, as far as I recall, they (American V8s) tend to deteriorate as they do not have the tolerances of a German engine, with age. As you know, that was where I was heading. Of course, the point is who wants to just be a dragster. I'd say, lets get em a track and see who's the daddy! ;)
You are comparing yesteryear to today.....maybe a little unfair?

You "recall" tolerances of older american V8's & gauge them against BMW who was building their very first car in that era. It should also be pointed out that tolerances change due to wear. Oil technology in that era was primitive, so engine wear was accelerated. Modern American V8 motors have bearing tolerances on the order of 0.00025" & this has been true since the middle 1980's when factory tooling technologies improved worldwide. Main bearings on many 25 year old American V8's are clearanced between 0.0005" & 0.001", depending upon make and model. This compares with today's BMW's, which is why they maintain good oil control with 5W-30 oil. The machinery that GM and Ford use to manufacture engines is not inferior. Japan & Sweden are the primary mfrs of this robotic and production machining hardware. Most everyone is deploying the same stuff. BMW does not have better tooling than GM or Lexus.
 

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Lscman said:
You are comparing yesteryear to today.....maybe a little unfair?

You "recall" tolerances of older american V8's & gauge them against BMW who was building their very first car in that era. It should also be pointed out that tolerances change due to wear. Oil technology in that era was primitive, so engine wear was accelerated. Modern American V8 motors have bearing tolerances on the order of 0.00025" & this has been true since the middle 1980's when factory tooling technologies improved worldwide. Main bearings on many 25 year old American V8's are clearanced between 0.0005" & 0.001", depending upon make and model. This compares with today's BMW's, which is why they maintain good oil control with 5W-30 oil. The machinery that GM and Ford use to manufacture engines is not inferior. Japan & Sweden are the primary mfrs of this robotic and production machining hardware. Most everyone is deploying the same stuff. BMW does not have better tooling than GM or Lexus.
I understand, just giving my recollection from my erstwhile V-8 days. Lexus...yep, had my share of those too. Great engines. Can not fault. I got nothing to rebuttle you with except I have long memory of American cars and the way they were. I can not seem to change that view, even it its a wee bit unfair.:M5thumbs:
 

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Lscman said:
I agree. The GTO will undoubtedly get faster after it gets some miles on it & breaks in. :1:

My stock domestic V8 car will produce the same 1/4 mi timeslips as Motor Trend claimed in 1988. It currently has 285K mi and the engine has never been rebuilt. It uses no oil either. It's been my experience that USA domestic V8 motors are good for 300K+ miles if the oil is changed every 25K mi or so. After watching 7 year old Nikasil V8 motors croak at 80K mi, BMW does not get any awards for V8 engine longevity. The '96 and up alusil designs seem to be proving themselves.
I like M62 so well I put a new one in '95 540i.:wroom:
 

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Not to take anything away from the GTO, its a heck of a performance bargain. But, maybe the 2000 M5 was a bit weak. A Motor Trend test shows the 400HP GTO at 0-60 5.0 and a 1/4 of 13.3. Theses are a bit slower than Motor Trends 2000 M5 test and about .3 slower than a 2002 M5. They are close but the M5 should win. A dirty MAFS is all it would take to make the difference. The price difference is in the interior and the details. I've sat in several at car shows. The GTO is above average for GM but not even close to the M5 let alone a 3 Series. And no, I don't think it looks like a 6 series, it looks plain next to one.

The car I'd watch out for is the Chrysler 300 SRT-8. In the same Motor trend test, it out ran the GTO, out handled it, and out braked it!
 

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Lscman said:
Y Modern American V8 motors have bearing tolerances on the order of 0.00025" & this has been true since the middle 1980's when factory tooling technologies improved worldwide. This compares with today's BMW's, which is why they maintain good oil control with 5W-30 oil. The machinery that GM and Ford use to manufacture engines is not inferior. Japan & Sweden are the primary mfrs of this robotic and production machining hardware. Most everyone is deploying the same stuff. BMW does not have better tooling than GM or Lexus.
Lcsman,

So on engine alone, would you take the C6-ZO6 over the E39 M5?

The ZO6 has body parts that's cheap and of dubious durability, the E39 M5 has mechanical parts (thrust bearing, MAFS, Vanos, O2 sensors, last-stage relays, etc. etc.) that are like consummables. It's almost a toss up. However, in the long run, on maintenance cost alone, I think the ZO6 may be a better idea. I'm convinced that the C6 ZO6 will out-perfrom the M5 (staright line, twisties, track, or otherwise). It could be more to buy new, and less functional (2 drs, no back seats), more rattles with age. But it still has a HUGE trunk.

Sorry to say but I think the C6-ZO6 looks beautiful. Seems to me the only strike is that it's a Chevy. I'm kind of torn between them actually.

CP
 

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I had the opportunity a year ago to go for a long country drive. A guy came up behind me in a Monaro (GTO). I decided to get going for 200 miles uphill and twisty for 50 miles I stopped to get fuel and bought some lunch. As I was finishing lunch he drive into the Service station behind me.

He took 20 minutes to catch up. Good power he had, but handling isnt their forte....
 
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The GTO looks very plain in my opinion, and you can "feel" the low fitment quality just by looking at the exterior. American cars are inexpensive and fun for brute-force, but in my opinion, they are low-quality, plain, characterless machines. If anything, the classic 60's muscle cars are the ones to get.

Cheers, Daniel.
 
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