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Who are you voting for?

  • Bush and Cheney

    Votes: 11 42.3%
  • Kerry and Edwards

    Votes: 15 57.7%

  • Total voters
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Discussion Starter #1
As a European citizen in old Europe ;) I would actually vote for none
But I can say as a external spectator Bush is not very admired here in Sweden and I think he have eradicated alot of the international support after September 11th.

On the other hand, it is still a total tradegy what happened that day. Why don't you go a rflect over the posts made that day, in fact I started it here.

OT: Oh my god, one 737 + one more plane crashed into World Trade Center

Tradegy
everything was so good in the world when I visited USA in the summer of 2001.

Whatever mes the world is in now I hope it gets better, and not worse. Wars does not solve it, dialogue and understanding will (and internationalk community, the UN). I must sound like a liberal Swede now :nono: but Im against the socialism and leftist government we have today in Sweden.
 

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Im my view, both candidates suck, and they suck really hard. Nader is worthless, to vote for and in terms of his platform. All other candidates...who? As this week's South Park episode said, its hard to vote for a douche or a turd.

I dont know what we did to some of these Muslims to make them hate America. I think all of our foreign aid to any country should be discontinued instantly. That goes for Zimbabwe to Costa Rica to Israel to any European country. Too bad no candidate has that on their platform, as many people I know (both liberal and conservative) would be interested in this.

The UN is of little help to anything, agendas override actual solutions.

Our government is too big. Conservative or Liberals in power, both do nothing to help this.

War does not solve things, you are correct. However, terrorism does not solve much either.

I find it fascinating that foreigners are interested in US elections. I do not recall hearing that anyone from Sweden really cares about who is the PM of Japan...or who runs the Mexican govt.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
That is because the implications of USA affect Sweden alot more than another government in Sweden would affect USA. Added to this I enjoy USA so that is another factor why it concerns me.

Als Swedish citizens have also died in Al-Quaida attacks as well as been interneed on US detention centers at Cuba. Not many, but some.

It affects Sweden in other senses as well: Iraqis are fleeing to asylym in Sweden, gas prices go up / down, longer lines in airports because of security checks. The list could go on and on how much USA affects Europe and sopecific countries in Europe and all over the world.

In anycase Iraq is a big mess in my view and that should not have happend. Afganistan was perfectly OK, but not Iraq.

On the good side is that economy is catching up and Europe are finally starting to learn something from USA when it comes to common currency, free markets, taxes, entrepeneurship etc.

Was that an answer de Witt ;)
 

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I think what's really sad is either side makes completely inaccurate accusations and in many cases they know its wrong and are not called on it. They literally will say the other guy eats babies. It seems neither is interested in really discussing the issues, but rather shouting why the other guy is evil and they are good. :crying:
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Yes, by watching the ads on msnvideo.com Im really disgusted by the low blows of some of the candidates. Incredible :rolleyes:

I cant remember it like this crazy 4 years ago...
 

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It wasnt- it was not accurate at all, but the candidates actually tried not to be so nasty. This time around, its too close. Both can taste it. I think its a terrible commentary on the actual character of the two people who would be president: both are lacking.
 

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Gustav said:
That is because the implications of USA affect Sweden alot more than another government in Sweden would affect USA. Added to this I enjoy USA so that is another factor why it concerns me.

Als Swedish citizens have also died in Al-Quaida attacks as well as been interneed on US detention centers at Cuba. Not many, but some.

It affects Sweden in other senses as well: Iraqis are fleeing to asylym in Sweden, gas prices go up / down, longer lines in airports because of security checks. The list could go on and on how much USA affects Europe and sopecific countries in Europe and all over the world.

In anycase Iraq is a big mess in my view and that should not have happend. Afganistan was perfectly OK, but not Iraq.

On the good side is that economy is catching up and Europe are finally starting to learn something from USA when it comes to common currency, free markets, taxes, entrepeneurship etc.

Was that an answer de Witt ;)
I dont know. I have no answers to this dilemma. Why do we have such an effect on countries?

If we didnt do anything in Iraq, we would have people saying "what about saddam, what about the mass graves, what about the torture, why arent you doing anything to help those people, why wont you do it, you have to do it."

America screwed ourselves when we took action to help foreigners. We should have said, you want help, you have to come to America to pursue your need for help. America is where you can find help, but America will not find you to help you.
 

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MEnthusiast said:
I think what's really sad is either side makes completely inaccurate accusations and in many cases they know its wrong and are not called on it. They literally will say the other guy eats babies. It seems neither is interested in really discussing the issues, but rather shouting why the other guy is evil and they are good. :crying:

Mudslinging is a moot point to me. Remember the "muckrakers?" Accusations and bad raps is nothing new to politics.


The difference is the media. We live in a postmodern time. Information is distributed and skewed as fast as possible.
 

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Thats true. I agree. Its like a centrifuge. Its all too easy to blame the media though. We are all customers and we have to vote with our wallets to get them to change their objective- since that objective is to sell- not produce accurate news.
 

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check out www.vote-smart.org... no media, totally not connected to anyone.

What I can't get over is Kerry's voting record over the last two years... he only voted in 36% of votes last year, and looks to have only voted in 2 of the votes this year...

I know if I only did 36% of my work last year, and even less than that this year... I would be out a job...
 

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vndkshn said:
check out www.vote-smart.org... no media, totally not connected to anyone.

What I can't get over is Kerry's voting record over the last two years... he only voted in 36% of votes last year, and looks to have only voted in 2 of the votes this year...

I know if I only did 36% of my work last year, and even less than that this year... I would be out a job...
How did you determine the voting percentage? I am on the site now, and don't see it--- though I don't doubt what you're saying in the least.
 

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Just keep in mind, for all you Red Sox fans out there, if W had his way, the Sox would not have won the WS (he voted against the wild card)..... and my Yankees would never have begun their dynasty in 1996 but might have not collapsed this year.

Either way, we're screwed. One guy cant pronounce "nuclear", the other can't pronounce "hot dog". :D

On a serious note, re the voting record. If you look you will see Kerry made the ~95% of the votes in past years. I spent a few years working on Capital Hill and I would guess that in 2003, as he was campaigning he skipped all the procedural votes and voted when he really had to. There are a lot of procedural votes in Congress. I wouldn't call them BS and I do think its fair to say he missed a lot of votes in 03, but you have to look at this in context.
 

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I concur with the above posts about the mud slinging and negative attacks on each other. I am not very found of either candidate, and I cannot stand how neither side fully explains their issues (they just say they have a plan). I am pro Kerry on stem cell, prescription drugs, and foreign policy with regards to colitions (sp) but am with Bush on his plan for the ecomony, milatary ideals, and leadership qualities after 9-11. It will be a tough decision for me and many other Americans. On a side note, I find it absolutely disgusting more Americans do not exercise their right to vote and then complain about what is happening. We are lucky enough to have a say in some form about what is going on in our government, people need to exercise this right.
 

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MEnthusiast said:
On a serious note, re the voting record. If you look you will see Kerry made the ~95% of the votes in past years. I spent a few years working on Capital Hill and I would guess that in 2003, as he was campaigning he skipped all the procedural votes and voted when he really had to. There are a lot of procedural votes in Congress. I wouldn't call them BS and I do think its fair to say he missed a lot of votes in 03, but you have to look at this in context.
Well, I disagree. Edwards was able to take part in over 60% of votes in 2003, and voted several times this year as well, and he was campaigning as well. So, I don't buy that explaination. Also, Kerry was hired (elected) to do a job and obviously been lacking in this area. Simple concept as far as I am concerned, he collected pay while not performing his job. Campaigning? Quit your job to devote your time to campaigning, don't rip off the American public, and especially the people that elected you to do a job.

A similar example is the guy who switched parties a couple of years ago, they elected a Republician... kinda lame to jump parties later. Talk about the bait and switch.

I think the true explaination could have been that he didn't want to offend anyone with a vote.

Doug, if you do a search on the last name of the person in Congress and pull up their bio page, at the bottom it shows their voting history.
Kerry
http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=S0421103
Roll Call Vote Analysis
Year Voting Participation Party Support Presidential Support
2003 36% 100% 30%
2002 96% 92% 72%
2001 98% 98% 65%
2000 95% 96% 97%
1999 99% 95% 93%

2004 stats have not been reported in this structure yet, so if you look at his voting history (under his picture) and look at the votes for 2004....

At least Edwards is doing better in both 2003 and just barely in 2004.

This is a horrible group of chuckleheads to have to choose between. My other issue with Kerry... all I have heard for as long as this whole deal has been unfolding is Kerry's opinion that Bush is doing a bad job, and how "under my plan...." things will be better. But very little information on what that plan is. His campaign has been 100% negative. He could have won my vote VERY easily, all he had to do was stop bashing Bush and tell me his position.
 

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I'm not a fan of King George and I'm not a fan of the two Johnnies. Although it would be nice to see someone like Arnie in charge of the USA. I think his public image would be great for world peace. Everyone enjoys Arnie films.
 

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You cannot be so naive as to think politicians are there to do something. The pressure to to get reelected is so immense that that's what they end up working towards. Its amazing that anything gets done. There are always some who do a good job, but that's not the majority.

Thats what Bush has done to make policy decisions and thats what Congressmen do too.

It SHOULD NOT be that way, but that's how it is.

For years the Congress has been off loading its responsibilities to various commissions and other groups. And for years the Executive has been expanded waaayyyy beyond what it was supposed to be. Its enough to make one sick. Strict Constitutional interpretation? If we did that you'd lose a good chunk of the commissions and departments out there. It's all about whats advantageous to me and my cause. :sad2:

Btw- Bush has been the most absentee President in modern US history (vacations taken while in office). While he was vacationing no one in his administration has been held accountable for human rights abuses.... Oh, I forgot, he doesn't make mistakes....

Did I mention he has the benefit of flying on AF1, with tax payers dollars for campaigning. Oh, sure they don't call it that, officially, but thats what it is. Recognize the BS for what it is.

You're right in principle, they should:
*be there for nearly every vote
*not use the govt for campaign purposes
*not lie to the public
*not off load their duties and responsibilities to others

but that's not reality.

Just be sure to use your right to vote. In the case of voting, a right not used is a right wasted.
 

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This goes for the UK as well as the US...

But it's also your right not to vote - you can't force someone to vote if they do not agree with any candidate!

What should happen, is all the non-votes should be counted and if they are more than any one candidates percentage then there is a mis-vote and new candidates should be proposed.

I bet if there was an option to register your vote as abstaining or 'none of the above' then your turnout would increase dramatically.
 

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Did you ever see the Richard Prior movie: "Brewster's Millions"? He ran under "none of the above" :)

Sorry about the harsh tone of the post before. Just grumpy that human nature is what it is.

You can't force someone to vote, but you can encourage them to use their rights. If they don't want to, they don't have to. Democracy is a beautiful thing!
 
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