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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
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Been working on a 2013 M5 with ~7000 miles. Started with a wash, iron decontamination (even a 7000mile car is full of contaminants!) another wash, clay, and paint correction.

Encountered heavy scuffing/scratching on the trunk lid. Here is a before and after video. Will be coating it in Opti Coat Pro after 1 more remaining polishing step. Will post more!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
This was just on the trunk. The owner is a very careful man and understands safe washing techniques.

I suspect this was either from the dealership or some previous detailing hack.
 

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Awesome work. Can you share more details about how you got the scuff marks out? I have some in my car that I think I should be able to get out, but can't. BMWs clear coat is too tough for Griot's stuff, though they have something new I haven't looked into. I have some of the Mequire's 101, but it just doesn't feel like I'm making progress.

Anyway, do you mind sharing some detailed steps & the product you used?

Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
So do you have a Griot's Random Action Polisher already?
 

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Yup, I have the 6" random orbital. I've used all four of their polishes, but even the 1 doesn't seem to cut through much. They have the new "Complete Compound" that appears to be a more aggressive polish, though I'm only assuming that from the write up.

I go through all the steps Griot's recommends including the paint prep spray and clay. I just never feel as though even fine scratches are coming up. I do about 15 to 20 cross patterns at 4 or 5 speed. I doesn't help the car look "better", but even light scratches are still visible at the right angle. I guess I need to go to one of their demos and see the before and after. Maybe my expectations are too high?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Paint correction is a factor of: pressure x speed/power x abrasive material x time

For this particular section of the car I used a Flex 3401, which is a forced rotation (direct drive) DA polisher, unlike the griots, this will not slow down from a spinning action to a shake type action under heavy load. This provides me the speed factor. Although your tool is perfectly fine, you just need to increase the other factors to compensate for the lack of power and direct drive.

For pad, rather than using a foam pad, I used a Meguires Microfiber Cutting pad. Not only does the thin foam section help maximize pressure, it also significantly increases surface area for polishing agents to attach to the pad, thus increasing its effectiveness.

Although most of the car was polished without difficulty using the Meg's and Optimum Hyper Polish, for this area I used Menzerna FG400 compound. Combined with all the factors above, this minimizes the time factor for me which is important when doing this for a living.

Advise to you: Get a MF pad, some hyper polish and FG400. Prime the microfiber pad with some Hyper Polish and add a few dabs of FG400. Crank that polisher to about a 3-4 setting. If the disc stops spinning (and just shakes) while you are polishing you are pushing too hard, it does this to protect your paint from over-correction. Some like to mark their backing plate with sharpie lines to monitor rotation. If you are not rotating, you are not correcting.

Let me know if you have any further questions!
 

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Wow, thanks for that! You just cleared up my confusion and frustration. I like Griot's, but why couldn't they have made it that clear?

I will pick up those recommended items and look forward to going at it.

I will report back with my success.

Thanks again for taking time to type that out and share your techniques.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
you bet, let me know how you do.

Also, I was thinking, try the microfiber pad with just hyper polish first. That might be aggressive enough. (FG400 can be a little difficult to work with as a beginner). Frequently blow out the microfiber pad with compressed air to keep it clean and fluffed.

Follow up the microfiber pad step with hyper polish on a foam pad and low speed for ever more shine!
 

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Thanks for hooking me up with a plan. It'll take me a few weeks at least. My car is in the garage for the winter. I'm slowing working it over. Next up: Dr. Color Chip. Then after a few weeks of curing, I'll be ready for polishing using your tips.

I will report back, hopefully with some before and after pics. Thanks again.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for hooking me up with a plan. It'll take me a few weeks at least. My car is in the garage for the winter. I'm slowing working it over. Next up: Dr. Color Chip. Then after a few weeks of curing, I'll be ready for polishing using your tips.

I will report back, hopefully with some before and after pics. Thanks again.
Do you have good lighting where you will be working? What all did you end up ordering for supplies?
 

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Okay, I finally sat down to order some products. The Mequires MF cutting pad should be a lot different than the Griot's foam pad. Because of that, I was thinking that maybe trying the Mequires M101 mirror glaze I already have?

The Optimum Hyper Polish spray is $67.. I'll get it if you think it's better than the M101.

Amazon also sells a "Meguiar's DMCKIT6 DA Microfiber Correction System Kit" which includes:


  • Meguiar's DA Microfiber Cutting Disc and DA Microfiber Finishing Disc provides exceptional polishing power and finishes down perfect
  • Microfiber Correction Compound and DA Microfiber Finishing Wax combined will remove swirls and protect
That do you think?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
http://www.amazon.com/OPT-Optimum-Hyper-Polish-Spray/dp/B004RIT6F6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1417930825&sr=8-1&keywords=hyper+polish

Should only be about $25. You are probably getting a half gallon at that size. A little goes along way.

Hyper Polish is tunable in that it will cut more on an aggressive cutting pad such as a microfiber disk, and polish more gently on a soft polishing pad.

For now start with the Hyper Polish on MF pads. You may find after the MF pad, that you can add even more shine by putting some hyper polish on a foam pad and going back at it at a slower speed on a foam pad. The best way to determine this is by taping off a section and experimenting. Make sure you have great lighting to evaluate your progress (the sun is best)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19ib5MOv9xQ here is a good video on taking care of your MF pads. I prefer taking compressed air to fluff them back out after every panel, sometimes more frequently! If no air is available I use a nail scrubber brush.
 

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Microfiber pad + Hyper polish

Well, I finally got around to going over my Sapphire Back '08 e60 M5 with the microfiber cutting pad and Hyper polish. The verdict:

It worked fantastic! I know the Griot's stuff is good, but since BMW paint is hard their polishes don't seem to do all that well. I've tried the Meguires 101 and it worked pretty good. I think it would have performed similar to the Hyper polish had I been using a microfiber cutting pad.

No matter, the hyper polish went on well and came off easy. There were definately a few scratches that are far less visible now. Thanks a ton for the original post and follow up help.

Next up is to go at some rock chips on the hood and driver's door with Dr. Color chip. Then I have to figure out if I want to go with a paint seal (usually Griot's) or their new Carnuba wax. By the time I do that and get to the windows, engine, interior and tires, it ought to be ready to roll in April when spring hits! ouich

Happy Holidays!
 

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Pictures.. I know, I know. I was really bad. The hyper polish worked great. I am sorry I didn't do a before and after shot. After I did half the hood using the MF cutting pad and Hyper Polish, I could see the untouched area was hazy. I was so excited I didn't stop and take pics.

Then I went at my hood with Dr. Color chip. A little story; I actually had to call Dr. Color Chip and order a replacement bottle of paint and cleaning chemical. The one I had expired because I bought it and didn't use it within the one year. This happened because I was too chicken to smear paint all over my hood. That's the kind of thing I manage to F up. But you know what? It was sooo easy! After a 700 mile round trip summer jaunt to Kewlona BC, my hood was peppered with chips. Here is a before (close up) and after (a foot away). If you get up close you can see the repaired chips, but if you back up more than a foot it looks great. There are no more little white freckles that draw the eye. You'll have to trust me when I say the hood looks so much better than prior to Dr. Color Chip.

Now after another round of Dr. Color chip to try and add more paint to some of the bigger chips and waiting two weeks for it to cure, I will need to go over the car with the 15% IPA solution and then I would be ready for the Optimum Gloss Coat.

I purchased a bigger bottle from AutoGeek, so I will have enough. However, since it is liquid I am a little nervous about using it. What's the best way? Do I need to tape all the trim type pieces I don't want to touch? Or is it like polish in that I will be able to remove any mistakes I (will) make.

Let me know your application tips. Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
The gloss coat will blow your mind. I have been applying it on top of Opti Coat Pro and even on top of that there is a marked difference. The downside to GC is its limited durability, but with proper care it should last you up to two years. That said, by buying the large syringe you have enough to coat your car 4 times over, so you can reapply in a year or two if you like. (or return it and get a 10cc dose). You will probably only use about 5-7 cc.

Assuming you haven't washed or waxed your car after the hyper polish you wouldn't need to do an IPA wipedown. Hyper polish is fully compatible with any of the optimum coatings. In your particular case, I would go ahead and get a blue or orange polishing pad from Harbor Freight, and go over your car again with hyper polish. In some cases the microfiber pads can leave micro marring that you won't notice unless you have proper lighting and know what to look for. I'd hate for you to lock that in. The softer foam polishing pad will help you finish the surface to a higher luster. In addition it will help clean the surface as well. Apply the polish lightly wipe away thoroughly. You may mist some distilled water or 1 1:256 dilution of Optimum No Rinse to help get excess polishing residue off. This shouldn't take long as your are not doing heavy corrections, this shouldn't take more than 2 hour tops for the whole car.

Give the car a final inspection to make sure you got all the polish off, then you may start coating. prime your applicator pad. I like to make an X and then a circle around it. I start on the trunk with a line across the middle of the trunk (1/3 length of the total) and start wiping. Ensure coverage by going up/down, then left right. Look up some videos to get an idea. Now comes the tricky part: As the coating comes on, it will almost instantly seem to disappear into the paint except for at the ends of your stroke. This is normal and really only a minimal amount will ensure coverage (which is why we do a consistent pattern to ensure the whole thing gets covered.) You can try to redistribute any high spots further, just make sure you are consistent in your pattern.

Even after redistributing your high spots, you will see areas where there is excess product remaining on the paint, with light pressure, use the brand new clean yellow MF towel that auto geek throws in with your kit to wipe those high spots away. Your ambient temperature will decide how quickly you need to wipe away high spots before they harden into streaks (streak will polish off very easily with hyper polish if a MF towel doesn't do the trick).

With good light (for identifying high spots, it is better to have bright lights pointed away from you, illuminating a white garage wall for example) go over the area you just did and make sure there are no streaky areas, wipe those down if you see any. I can not reiterate enough that this is supposed to go on very thin and nearly invisible. You won't think you area applying anything, trust me, that is fine. Reprime your pad with another line across it, and go to the next area. I like to do all horizontal panels first, then go around the car. If you feel so inclined, after 1 hour, you can reapply another layer. Let cure for a minimum of 1 hour before getting it wet. Avoid washing for a week, and after that I strongly recommend only touch free washes for the first month.

I would strongly recommend switching your wash method to using Optimum No-Rinse. I have a baby to feed so I won't go into that at the moment, but join my Facebook page at www.facebook.com/em-detailing where I will be posting a how-to video soon on washing with No-Rinse (on a very dirty E39 M5)

Let me know if you need any clarifications
 

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Thanks a bunch for your detailed instructions. I feel a lot better about what to expect. I have to decide if I'm going to apply more Dr. Color Chip and then wait two weeks before using the Gloss Coat. I think I will. So it will be a few weeks before I apply the GC, but these instructions will help a lot.

I bought the big bottle of GC because reviewers on Amazon complained that when they switched to the 10cc bottle, people didn't have enough product to finish a car. Obviously they may have been applying it too heavy. I went big because I have the wife's red Benz I'll be doing next. Sounds like I don't have to worry about having enough.

My car has been in the garage for about three months now. Since going at it with the Hyper Polish I haven't driven it, so she's clean. The sites where I read stuff about Gloss Coat were adamant about going over it with the 15% IPA solution. I suppose then it couldn't hurt?

Regarding the blue or orange polish pad from Harbor Freight, I have a supply of the Griot's pads. However, it sounds like you're talking about going over the car again with hyper polish, by hand? If not, I can use an orange (polish) or red (wax) Griots pad?

I sooo dislike the idea of the no-rinse products. I have a heated water faucet that I use for car washing, I can make sure it isn't very warm when I wash the car. After applying this I'm sure I won't drive the car for another few weeks. It'll be too clean and polished to be out in the winter! Then I think you said I can still wax the car? Or, is that a waste of time?

This is so helpful. I am excited to see how she looks when done.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Straight from Doctor G's mouth (President and Founder of Optimum) there is no need to wipe down with IPA if Optimum products are used, as long as all residue is wiped away which you verify visually. It actually can, and does hurt, if you do an IPA wipedown on some paint types. By using ONR or just gentle wiping with a water misted MF you can do a safer wipedown.

Although likely not the case here. I just did a jet black M5 that had such soft paint, even a virgin microfiber towel would start scratching it again if I wiped too hard. IPA, would tear into it if I had to do that.

Your finishing polish step will also be by machine, not hand. Just lower your speed and pressure. Your orange Griot's pad should be fine assuming it is clean and does not contain any non-optimum polish residue.

You will find with gloss coat on board that your need to wash will be greatly reduced. Hot water is pretty good actually since your water heater will precipitate out calcium minerals, thus somewhat softening your water. The less you actually touch your car, the longer your paint corrected surface will remain in its good condition. You may find that you can do a no touch rinse and blow dry 3/4 washed before having to actually wash your car with contact. With a black car, your results may vary. Just know that every time you touch it, it will likely be marred, ever so slightly. Therefor I also recommend you stay away from waxes. The protection you get is worse than the coating you just put on and a fair number of waxes contain polishing agents that will help you revert your paint to a pre correction status. The rub on rub off routine does not help. If you need something to do, try Opti-Seal. It is a wipe on/walk away that goes on much like the gloss coat.

Regarding No-Rinse washes. Consider the following. Foam does nothing to help protect your paint. It is merely air trapped in a protein casing. Soapy foam pre soaks do little if anything to protect your paint from harm. Unless there is a lubricating agent present in the soap, there is nothing to protect your paint. Here is a great video showing the futility of a foam cannon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca3NoxH1_ro&feature=youtu.be

Optimum No Rinse contains polymers that coat the paint in slick lubricants, and encapsulates dirt and oil such that it protects the paint from damage when it is removes. Dilute 1oz of ONR in 2 gallons of warm water, then you wash the car with a very ONR soaked towel, one panel at a time. Once the panel is clean, you dry the ONR with a clean and dry MF towel. The major difference here is that you are drying ONR off the car, not water.

When you rinse the soap off your car in a conventional washing method. You are rinsing away the one component that MAY have any lubricity, and you replace it with a very strong solvent with exceptionally high surface tension (water). So now you are trying to dry something that is harder to dry and has no lubrication. Here is a very long article on the matter: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1438659996382750/1534291323486283/?comment_id=1535120640070018&notif_t=group_comment_reply

ONR is proven technology, you will have to take the leap of faith. I will post a video soon washing my own car, which is filthy at the moment.
 
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