P0171 Engine Malfunction E60 S85 I'm stumped - Any HELP Appreciated

399 Views 17 Replies 5 Participants Last post by SkinnerV10, 16 h ago

SkinnerV10

Discussion Starter · 4 d ago

Hey Gang,

Read all the P0171 related thread, most are E39, with no shining light, yet. Here is the chronology of my case:
Started the car and headed into town as I normally do and about 4-5 minutes into journey the engine malfunction message illuminates and check engine light came on. It was into a limp mode with reduced power.

After stopping the car at first location, about a five minute stop, it fired up and drove essentially normally except for the check engine light illuminated. A little while later I received increased emission message. Upon return home, I plugged in my Innova 6100P code tool and found P2177 and P0301, p0302, p0303, p0304, p0305.
Hmmm, I say to myself... No way did all five plugs, coils or injectors all go bad simultaneously. So I think possibly the MAF.
I reset the code and swapped the two MAFs. The problem presented itself again still on Bank 1. So, I think I can eliminate bad MAF (not positive but think so). Now I start to wonder about this and find another MAF close to the secondary air pump. After replacing that, no changes. Still getting P0171 and the five misfires, and now I've also snagged a misfire on 6 and 10.

On the next drive I get messages again, and this time I have my code reader with me and I get P0112 IAT range. This P0112 has not come up again, only that one time.

I verified the secondary air pump is working. Checked the connection of all possible vacuum leaks I know about. The two breathers at the back of the plenum are connected. Checked to see that the brake system is holding a vacuum, as I did disrupt that system a few weeks earlier to replace the master cylinder. Maybe a smoke machine to look for vacuum leaks?

Next drive she runs a long time before giving any message, but they come. This time the code soup included P0101 and P0420 and 0430. The last two are catalytic converters out of range, so now I am concerned even more that some simple problem could cause high dollar mpact.

Hopefully someone out there will see this and either point me to a culprit or an expert.

Thanks,
Bob

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1 - 18 of 18 Posts

sunilshivaram

· #2 · 4 d ago

None of these codes help this forum. Please get actual BMW codes. The OBD2 codes won't pinpoint to underlying issue.
A lot of codes are dependent on each other. A weak battery initially may throw many errors, that shows the entire car is falling apart. Don't be scared - just get actual code and it will be helpful to debug.

Reactions: 2

SkinnerV10

Discussion Starter · #3 · 4 d ago

sunilshivaram said:
None of these codes help this forum. Please get actual BMW codes. The OBD2 codes won't pinpoint to underlying issue.
A lot of codes are dependent on each other. A weak battery initially may throw many errors, that shows the entire car is falling apart. Don't be scared - just get actual code and it will be helpful to debug.

Will the INPA Diagnostic tool provide these as BMW codes?

Reactions: 2

ssclassa80

· #4 · 4 d ago

E39 owner here, but yes INPA will give you proper diagnostic codes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

SkinnerV10

Discussion Starter · #5 · 4 d ago

ssclassa80 said:
E39 owner here, but yes INPA will give you proper diagnostic codes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Roger that. Thank you!

sunilshivaram

· #6 · 4 d ago

If you don't have INPA, or BMW specific scanner, a lot of body shops have them - they need it to reset BMW issues after major body work. (BMW dealers will have them, but they are not that courteous if you have an old car).

SkinnerV10

Discussion Starter · #7 · 3 d ago

3

sunilshivaram said:
If you don't have INPA, or BMW specific scanner, a lot of body shops have them - they need it to reset BMW issues after major body work. (BMW dealers will have them, but they are not that courteous if you have an old car).

Okay - Take two on the codes. Went to a friends auto shop where they have a fancy snap-on scanner. En route, no codes were generated, no messages, car ran like she always did. But, there are codes. They are:
2737 - Fill Plausibility Bank 1
2796 - Safety Concept Manager
2b42,3,4,5,6 - Combustion misfire on 1-5
2b4e - Combustion misfire with emission deterioration
2789 - Catalytic Converter Conversion Bank 1
278A - Catalytic Converter Conversion Bank 2
27aa - Lambda adoption at limit before cat bank 1

While I had the scanner attached, I was diggin into the device and data. Took a screen shot of the Vanos positoins stuff, in the event it may be helpful. Will try to upload here..

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sunilshivaram

· #8 · 3 d ago

Many codes, and most are dependent on each other or one main issue at hand, check this out:

www.m5board.com

m5 2737 dme, filling plausibility, bank 1

Hi everyone i have changed all 10 ignition coils and cleaned all throttle bodies and after i started my car i received a code # 2737 (dme filling plausibility bank 1) i need your help to figure out what the problem is if anyone had same issue. By the way i am using Autel maxisys obd2 scanner...

www.m5board.com

www.m5board.com

platii

· #9 · 3 d ago

You need ISTA or INPA, I am not sure if your scanner can perform function test.

You need ISTA or INPA to view the fault attached details.
There is indication of fuel starvation as in the first group of faults , so you need to run fuel pump test.
There indication of intake leak as filling fault, so you need to check for pinched throttle rubber boots, disconnected one of the hoses around the plenums, may be clean the throttle bodies internals.
You need to ISTA or INPA to view the DME parameters adaptation to evaluate and diagnose these issues.
You need ISTA or INPA to delete o2 sensor adaptation.
You need ISTA to perform cat's test although I believe it is consequence faults.

_ There is a deviation between both banks Idle actuator opening angle, so you need to ISTA or INPA to perform Idle actuator test.

Possibly the security fault codes is caused by the universal scan tool, sometimes the car will lose DME security code synchronization if you used universal obd scanners and only ISTA or INPA can take it off the locked mode.
You need ISTA or INPA if you still have plans to continue owning this car.

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Reactions: 1

sunilshivaram

· #10 · 3 d ago

The scanner he used has the ability to clear those codes. He is deep probing to get bmw specific codes
A generic obd2 scanner can clear all codes, but it can’t deep read the bmw codes.

The car’s computer just reports all the errors. It is seeing a leak, but they never programmed the DME to show the misfire is due to the intake leaks.

1 unit of air + 1 unit of fuel + a spark = 1 unit of combustion, and this combustion quality is measured using the ionic sensors.
Now, you introduce 2 units of air, while the dme has clearly measured it as 1, and the dme can’t understand it. It complains the combustion quality is off, in every single cylinder in bank1, and the expected output isn’t seen at the catalytic converters, so it now thinks the cats are also wrong. Lol. Somebody at bmw didn’t finish writing the computer code completely and had to push it into production.

SkinnerV10

Discussion Starter · #11 · 3 d ago

sunilshivaram said:
Many codes, and most are dependent on each other or one main issue at hand, check this out:

m5 2737 dme, filling plausibility, bank 1

Hi everyone i have changed all 10 ignition coils and cleaned all throttle bodies and after i started my car i received a code # 2737 (dme filling plausibility bank 1) i need your help to figure out what the problem is if anyone had same issue. By the way i am using Autel maxisys obd2 scanner...

www.m5board.com

Hey Sunil, very interesting indeed. My suspicion of as simple as a vacuum leak could be true. The problem is that nothing was disturbed under the hood for weeks prior to the "code soup" appearing. But, to that end, I will investigate and pull the plenums and check all connections and the cleanliness of the intakes. Probably wouldn't hurt to pull a few plugs to see if they indicate fouling or lean burn.

Platii,
I do have an INPA software load, but until recently have not had a capable laptop. Received a laptop today that may handle it. I'll try to get INPA up and running and put my old brain in learn mode. I've been a shade tree mechanic for 45 years, and have overcome a lot of challenges. Built lots of motors, rebuilt lots of carbs and brakes and transmissions and rear ends. Computer Science is not new to me, but INPA definitely is.. As is Canbus.

All the prompt feedback is greatly appreciated. I've put 70,000 miles on this M5, and plan to put another 70k. I'm keeping it. Dale Earnhardt Jr was the first owner...

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Reactions: 3

Alan Arnesen

· #12 · 3 d ago

A smoke test is easy, I 'm sure your friend has a smoke generator.

On both my cars the plenum boots were not installed properly, folded over or loose. If you have 70,000 miles in this car you probably know everything that as been done. Multiple misfires on a single bank could also be an ionic module, like the MAF you can swap them and see if the problem follows.

Sounds like you committed to the car and it has a bit of history. I was a big DE fan.

SkinnerV10

Discussion Starter · #13 · 3 d ago

Alan Arnesen said:
A smoke test is easy, I 'm sure your friend has a smoke generator.

On both my cars the plenum boots were not installed properly, folded over or loose. If you have 70,000 miles in this car you probably know everything that as been done. Multiple misfires on a single bank could also be an ionic module, like the MAF you can swap them and see if the problem follows.

Sounds like you committed to the car and it has a bit of history. I was a big DE fan.

Hey Alan,
None of my car guys have a generator, surprisingly. $100 on Amazon may make me the first.
I did swap the mafs early on and the problem did not follow. And to your point on history, it had only 21k on the clock when purchased so I do have 100%. That’s why a sudden apparent vacuum leak seems unlikely. A failed component seems more the cause. Perhaps the next logical item is to explore fuel pressure.

Alan Arnesen

· #14 · 3 d ago

I use a cigar and a small pump with a rubber glove, works great.

SkinnerV10

Discussion Starter · #15 · 3 d ago

Alan Arnesen said:
I use a cigar and a small pump with a rubber glove, works great.

Interesting. Sounds easier than incense and safer than spraying starting fluid.

SkinnerV10

Discussion Starter · #16 · 16 h ago

SkinnerV10 said:
Hey Gang,

Read all the P0171 related thread, most are E39, with no shining light, yet. Here is the chronology of my case:
Started the car and headed into town as I normally do and about 4-5 minutes into journey the engine malfunction message illuminates and check engine light came on. It was into a limp mode with reduced power.

After stopping the car at first location, about a five minute stop, it fired up and drove essentially normally except for the check engine light illuminated. A little while later I received increased emission message. Upon return home, I plugged in my Innova 6100P code tool and found P2177 and P0301, p0302, p0303, p0304, p0305.
Hmmm, I say to myself... No way did all five plugs, coils or injectors all go bad simultaneously. So I think possibly the MAF.
I reset the code and swapped the two MAFs. The problem presented itself again still on Bank 1. So, I think I can eliminate bad MAF (not positive but think so). Now I start to wonder about this and find another MAF close to the secondary air pump. After replacing that, no changes. Still getting P0171 and the five misfires, and now I've also snagged a misfire on 6 and 10.

On the next drive I get messages again, and this time I have my code reader with me and I get P0112 IAT range. This P0112 has not come up again, only that one time.

I verified the secondary air pump is working. Checked the connection of all possible vacuum leaks I know about. The two breathers at the back of the plenum are connected. Checked to see that the brake system is holding a vacuum, as I did disrupt that system a few weeks earlier to replace the master cylinder. Maybe a smoke machine to look for vacuum leaks?

Next drive she runs a long time before giving any message, but they come. This time the code soup included P0101 and P0420 and 0430. The last two are catalytic converters out of range, so now I am concerned even more that some simple problem could cause high dollar mpact.

Hopefully someone out there will see this and either point me to a culprit or an expert.

Thanks,
Bob

Problem solved - throttle body to plenum boots on 3, 4 and 5 were apparently not completely on. Found vacuum leak with homemade smoke device.
Not sure how many of you have wrestled these boots, but from the side looking in, when I put it back together in January, looked fitted. And they must have been only partially fitted as it took over a month before the problem presented itself, out of the blue. That's apparently why I didn't start there. Thought it was all okay.
Thankfully it was that easy! More thanks to those of you who responded with your input. It all helped.

Cheers!

Reactions: 2

sunilshivaram

· #17 · 16 h ago

Engine vibrations must have loosened them up.

SkinnerV10

Discussion Starter · #18 · 16 h ago

sunilshivaram said:
Engine vibrations must have loosened them up.

Or I was just hasty. Note to self "FOCUS!"

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