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I'm reviving this thread once more as a result of finally solving the last piece of this 6MT conversion puzzle.

Even since completing the swap I have not been able to deactivate DSC. As many of you know, the SMG and 6MT use different buttons to deactivate the DSC, so, if you do this swap in a 2007 or older car you will need the SZM from a manual car which has the MDM button on it. These are very hard to find since there are so few 2007 6MT cars out there...well, I finally got fed up waiting for one to pop up on eBay so I bit the bullet and ordered one from my dealer:


Once you code your DSC for a manual car (2MA) you will have a fault for DSC button error or pushed for longer than 10 seconds, followed by a DSC shutdown in which case you can no longer disable DSC or turn on MDM traction mode.

Initially, I was expecting this and ok with it, not thinking anything of it as I knew the 6MT switch was different. The problem arose when I plugged in my new MDM switch panel and the error remained along with the mentioned fault code and still not being able to disable DSC.

After 3 days of pondering now, checking if software is different, or DSC unit is different it turns out that when coding the DSC for manual, it looks at another pin for the DSC_PASS signal which comes from the MDM switch.
How did I figure this out? In INPA, when viewing the DSC switch status, the DSC switch shows active full time when there is no signal incoming to the DSC pin.

I discovered this by accident swapping pin 4 with 41 as the schematic (incorrectly) calls out. When you do that, the brake light switch status comes on full time, so that led me to the fact that the phantom DSC_PASS signal pin was open since it's a digital signal which is either 12v on or off.



There are 17 empty cavities on the DSC connector...our lucky winning number when playing DSC pinning roulette is....................6, so, long story short:

SMG DSC has the DSC_PASS signal wire going to pin 41 from the DSC switch. When converting to manual, move the wire from cavity 41 to cavity 6.

Before you do this, make sure you move the other end of that wire out of the white little 4 pin DSC button connector (Blue wire) and move it to the little connector into spot 3 on the back of the SZM.



Your DSC TASTER status should be off as pictured when not pressing the button....not filled in like the 2 below it.

DSC passive can now be activated again once the DSC_PASS signal gets to pin 6 and all DSC OFF problems are solved.

Now I'm off to slap this thing back together. :)
This doesn't make much sense to me. There is already a wire there , i know because i took the time to check continuity , double check diagram wasn't wrong and the wires were not going elsewhere. Moving 3&41 to 3&6...that identical wire is already there, what am i missing?

What production date was the the car you swapped, it looks like you already had 6 at DSC, what was present at pin 3 on x14057?
 

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Thank you very much for a thorough thread on swapping to.manual!

I wonder if this can be used for swapping DCT by using the standalone controller that Nisse Järnet produces and sells.
There are some concerns though. His controller outputs a 5v signal for the reverse light, but I guess that isn't a problem? It has no output for neutral, but rather you wire up a button that puts the transmission in neutral, maybe that can be solved by wiring the neutral button parallell to the DME and the DCT controller?

Kind regards
 

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This doesn't make much sense to me. There is already a wire there , i know because i took the time to check continuity , double check diagram wasn't wrong and the wires were not going elsewhere. Moving 3&41 to 3&6...that identical wire is already there, what am i missing?

What production date was the the car you swapped, it looks like you already had 6 at DSC, what was present at pin 3 on x14057?
This is also where I'm stuck. My mechanic checked and my car (production date March 2006) doesn't have 17 free pins free at the DSC. It only has 14 free pins and where there are supposed to be free pins, they're already taken. The existing DSC won't take the programming, and a DSC I bought off EBay (which supposedly came off a manual 2007 M5) isn't even recognized. So I'm stuck at the point of needing a picture of the connector at the DSC to discern what color wires are going to which pins. Then my mechanic and I can trace the wires to see where they go to in the computer box.</p>

I'm wondering if the wiring changed between the early E60 M5s and the ones that came after a manual was available. If anyone has pictures of the connector at the DSC on a manual M5 with no DSC issues, that shows all the different colors and the pins they go to, that would be so, so helpful.
 

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I was unable to edit post 241. No wiring is needed at the DSC Pump in most cases, i say most because i can not say with complete certainty ...i think people have just been doing extra pin swapping for nothing. Stop speculating and thinking of free pins. Best advice i can give is to stop blindly following instructions, meaning understand origin, destination and function of pins as well as the diagram itself.

Lay diagrams side by side and look at the difference. Compare pinouts. Bmw makes it so easy, just go by the connector numer and or module.

When in doubt check continuity to make sure both ends are of same wire.

Diagnose the pump first, not the swap wiring.

All e60 m5 pumps are the same, if you are having second thoughts. Get the vin of donor pump, and look up the diagram by production date. Looking for pictures will only confuse you. If you still have doubts compare pinouts. Bmw makes it so easy, just go by the connector number and or module.


Run functional tests on the dsc pump, does it even run? There is a good chance your wiring is fine and this is a coding/operator or dead pump.

Is it even getting power? What faults are you getting? Plug old pump back in, what happens?

Not looking to insult but statements like "won't take the programming or isn't even recognized " provides no valuable information. We dont know how you came to that conclusion, how you coded it or what equipment you are using to reach that conclusion.

Coding and initializing new-used pump is two totally different tasks done by different programs even if you are using authentic BMW tools.

All the resources needed are



Hopefully this helped.

PS: M5 Uses DSC87
 

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So, I finally have my MT converted car in hand. I got (almost) all the parts and my indie mechanic did all the work. First, the good news. After 2.5 years of down time (SMG clutch pump broke and I didn't get parts until recently for the conversion), I have to say that I've missed the sound of the car so much and driving it 50 miles home was music to my ears. Obviously I love the MT way more than the SMG and driving it is much more fun than before. Don't think I'll have a use for the 5th and 6th gear on my daily drive :) I still think my E36 M3 is more fun to drive, though, but it's awesome to share my daily drive between the two.

(Almost) Everything is working. I'm missing the center console trim, since the EDC buttom trim doesn't fit in the old one. I have to find the replacement for that. The worst news is that my mechanic wasn't able to program the DSC, so I'm running without DSC. lol. I know it's not that big of a deal, but it would be pretty handy to have during winter. My mechanic believes that because the car is a March 2006 production, the DSC is not the same DSC introduced when the MT came out in October 2006. So, I have a DSC fault going on and thus DSC and ABS are off.

Does anyone have any thought on getting the DSC to program? I'm afraid of dropping another grand and finding out it's not the DSC. I followed Chariot's parts list almost to a tee, but I didn't change the steering wheel. And of course I can't source a used belly cover for the transmission, but I figured I can live without that for a bit.

Thanks,
Doobster.
Did you ever get the DSC to program? Im currently having the same issue.
I don't think it is a wiring issue at all as everything else is functioning fine.
935185

Trying to change the option with NCS/NCS Dummy from smg to manual causes a coding error. I can change every other option except that one.
My pump uses the mk60_m5.c15 settings. Here is the NCS error
 

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Did you ever get the DSC to program? Im currently having the same issue.
I don't think it is a wiring issue at all as everything else is functioning fine. View attachment 935185
Trying to change the option with NCS/NCS Dummy from smg to manual causes a coding error. I can change every other option except that one.
My pump uses the mk60_m5.c15 settings. Here is the NCS error
I did not. I've given up for now and have been driving the car with no DSC, which is pretty fun in Chicago this winter and considering I have a 12 foot, 30 degree slope from the street to get into my driveway. But that's another story.

I read Al59751's reply and unfortunately, I haven't gotten proper software to do the diagnosis and the programming myself. My indy in Westchester was doing the work and what I wrote were exactly the words out of his mouth. Based on what I've seen on newtis.info, the wiring is not supposed to change from my model to the manuals, but I could be reading things wrong. It could also be that the DSC I bought on EBay (which supposedly came out of a manual) is completely defective, and my indy thinks my own DSC is too old (My M5 is 2006/03, before a manual was available), but I would literally need to buy another DSC at $700+ to determine if that's the case and I'd rather just drive with the DSC off for now.
 

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Doobster, all you got to do is google a bunch of vin numbers from different years and different configurations and look up the dsc part number. This will clear up all this confusion and speculation. It sounds like your indy is tired of working without getting paid and does not want to deal with it any more :) .

Jon, Code the car via VO. Meaning change the VO, then code complete car by letting NCS do all the work, rather than fiddling with spreadsheets. If it still does nothing and gives an error much like doobster, you have to make sure your pump is communicating. 700$ is a lot of money to just let go. All this software is readily available and within reach of any diyer. If this kind of money was on the line for me i'd set aside a day. Even when not coded, the pump will still set off certain errors, check them, and run an active test. If pump does not run , you have bigger issues. Its not worth chasing coding gremlins if there arent any
 

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Doobster, all you got to do is google a bunch of vin numbers from different years and different configurations and look up the dsc part number. This will clear up all this confusion and speculation. It sounds like your indy is tired of working without getting paid and does not want to deal with it any more :) .

Jon, Code the car via VO. Meaning change the VO, then code complete car by letting NCS do all the work, rather than fiddling with spreadsheets. If it still does nothing and gives an error much like doobster, you have to make sure your pump is communicating. 700$ is a lot of money to just let go. All this software is readily available and within reach of any diyer. If this kind of money was on the line for me i'd set aside a day. Even when not coded, the pump will still set off certain errors, check them, and run an active test. If pump does not run , you have bigger issues. Its not worth chasing coding gremlins if there arent any
That is completely pretentious of you to say. You don't know me. You don't know my mechanic, unless you're Ben Thongsai himself and lying, which I can assure everyone he'd never do. I have been going to Ben for over 20 years and completely trust him with the 5 Bimmers we have in our family. Call him and ask if he got paid for the M5 manual swap he did. So you can wipe off that smily face at the end of your sentence.

At the end of the day, this conversion is over my head, which is why I had someone else do it. When he gave up on getting the new (used) DSC to work, he said it must be the wiring, and that he'd have to wait until one of his other 2 manual M5s he works on to end up in his shop so he could check how they're wired. I told him I'd also ask around and came here, giving as much information as I could, to see if anyone else had ran into the same issue, which it appears a couple of others are as well. The last thing I was looking for was snarky comments.
 

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Wow, well i certainly didn't expect it to take this turn, but ok. I am sorry you got butt hurt. I was just making a joke but you sure took it a bit far so let me tell you how it works in the real world.

You paid him to do a basic swap assuming there were no difficulties and he didnt have to do extra leg work or research.

Clearly, he spent extra time trying to get it work, for which you very unlikely paid him extra for. He charged you flat rate labor, as it usually goes.

I will bet you money, he tried different things and got no extra diag time for trying different things. No-one wants to tell the customer they cant get something done.

Any person in this line of work, is smart enough to know that when it comes to fitment, vin and part number go hand in hand.

He concluded pump was probably wrong as it was the easiest thing to do. He may not say, but checking part numbers is as easy as it gets and is beyond common sense.

So, at the end of the day, he is either not competent enough to do basic research, or more likely he is over it and knows that if he tell you that pump is bad and then it still doesn't work he is digging his own grave...you sure as heck arent going to pay him addition 2-6 hours to figure/google/research things out, and he may not have the heart to tell you that he is done working for free as you are a good customer in a bind.

This is the reality and exactly why a " regular " shop will not take the time to deal with it. Because you dont have money to pay the true labor that this work/hassle brings and they dont want the wrap of being "that shop shop who charged **** metric ton for a swap" because of difficulties which they had nothing to do with.
 

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Wow, well i certainly didn't expect it to take this turn, but ok. I am sorry you got butt hurt. I was just making a joke but you sure took it a bit far so let me tell you how it works in the real world.

You paid him to do a basic swap assuming there were no difficulties and he didnt have to do extra leg work or research.

Clearly, he spent extra time trying to get it work, for which you very unlikely paid him extra for. He charged you flat rate labor, as it usually goes.

I will bet you money, he tried different things and got no extra diag time for trying different things. No-one wants to tell the customer they cant get something done.

Any person in this line of work, is smart enough to know that when it comes to fitment, vin and part number go hand in hand.

He concluded pump was probably wrong as it was the easiest thing to do. He may not say, but checking part numbers is as easy as it gets and is beyond common sense.

So, at the end of the day, he is either not competent enough to do basic research, or more likely he is over it and knows that if he tell you that pump is bad and then it still doesn't work he is digging his own grave...you sure as heck arent going to pay him addition 2-6 hours to figure/google/research things out, and he may not have the heart to tell you that he is done working for free as you are a good customer in a bind.

This is the reality and exactly why a " regular " shop will not take the time to deal with it. Because you dont have money to pay the true labor that this work/hassle brings and they dont want the wrap of being "that shop shop who charged **** metric ton for a swap" because of difficulties which they had nothing to do with.
Wow. Again, it's amazing how you continue to show your ignorance and judge Ben and I when you have no idea who either of us are. Compared to what I've seen on this thread and elsewhere on the net, I paid a fair price for the swap, and I supplied all the parts. We didn't even agree on a price beforehand. At the end, he gave me a figure and I paid. I've been a member of this board since 2009 and own a 2006 M5. If I could afford a 3 year old M5 in 2009, I certainly am not going to bicker with my mechanic over $500-$1000. In addition, I didn't tell him I was done paying and certainly didn't expect him to do any of the work for free. He knows me. I've never stiffed him for any work or tried to talk him down. It's amazing when two decent people deal with each other, neither try to take advantage of each other.

I'm done with this discussion, since it should be about the actual swapping of the SMG to manual and not about bickering. Insult away as you wish, but I'm done.
 

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Exactly, he gave you a price, you paid. He got stuck with a **** job and you didn't compensate him for all the extra work he had to do. You just confirmed what i have been saying. I am actually on the side of you your Indy.

Oh this is very relevant to this thread, food for thought if anyone is planning to embark on this.

If you got that that 1k doobster, slam that stack on his table tell him to its his diag and have him figure it out. Dont ask the internet.

Neither you nor your trusted guy did the basics in two months since you first complained. You literally did not lift a finger, just said " i dont have the software" .

You complain, ask for help but nothing gets done so ok.

This was all a waste of key strokes.

I am frustrated and mad. As you said, i am done here.:rolleyes:
 

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Doobster, all you got to do is google a bunch of vin numbers from different years and different configurations and look up the dsc part number. This will clear up all this confusion and speculation. It sounds like your indy is tired of working without getting paid and does not want to deal with it any more :) .

Jon, Code the car via VO. Meaning change the VO, then code complete car by letting NCS do all the work, rather than fiddling with spreadsheets. If it still does nothing and gives an error much like doobster, you have to make sure your pump is communicating. 700$ is a lot of money to just let go. All this software is readily available and within reach of any diyer. If this kind of money was on the line for me i'd set aside a day. Even when not coded, the pump will still set off certain errors, check them, and run an active test. If pump does not run , you have bigger issues. Its not worth chasing coding gremlins if there arent any
Hi thanks for your response, I have added $2MA to the VO aswell and it didn't change it either. The 2MA was accepted as I can see it in the long line of options displayed below the VIN in NCS.
I'm pretty sure the pump works, I can see all live data, I had a steering angle error aswell which went after calibrating that so im pretty sure it is communicating correctly. I haven't tried to activate the pump motor itself yet but I can do as you know it's very easy to do so.
I have even tried to do NETTODAT coding on the DSC module. Same thing occurs, I can change other options eg. USA MDM off and it still errors when trying to swap the M_GETREIBE option.
I'm thinking maybe try the latest SP daten files I'm not sure what my current version is.
Any suggestions you have are much appreciated. Thanks Jon
 

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PM sent. Send me your fswpsw or whatever files called i'll compare it to my records but first make sure your pump runs.
 

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PM sent. Send me your fswpsw or whatever files called i'll compare it to my records but first make sure your pump runs.
I've got it to accept now, I know what the issue is. My build date is a 03/06 car. I changed the build date to 03/07 and it accepted the coding.
I'd suggest anyone with an 06 car to change it after the October 06 build date of the first manual.
Thanks for the PM also but not necessary now.
 

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@Asb9987 - I haven't got around to the reverse light. Just been so busy with life that I haven't been able to prioritize and fix the issue. The oil level issue worked itself out and works flawlessly. I built a makeshift 6MT transmission harness to connect the sensors from the transmission to the DME. There is no need to change the entire vehicle harness. I made it early in the swap and posted up a little tutorial somewhere on this thread albeit it's not a great write up. Going to eventually make a DIY write up on that once I figure out the reverse light issue on the LCI M5. You are correct on flashing the modules and coding to 2MA to VO/FA through NCS Expert. Cruise control works flawlessly.

View attachment 884582

Since I'm here, I'm now at 140.800 miles and have put almost 10,000 miles on the swap. Still going strong with no real issues however I think my differential bushings are shot as I'm getting a rear end clunk every time I push the clutch at a stop or when I'm shifting. Something I need to tend to soon. Other than that, still a joy to drive like the day I first drove it when I finished the swap! I'm currently working on lengthening a SMG driveshaft to a 6-speed driveshaft so it will be easier to do the swap than trying to source a 6-speed driveshaft. I have also mocked up the trans cooler and will be making a seperate post in the coming weeks on that for using the trans cooler ports on the E9x M3 transmission. This project isn't finished yet!

View attachment 884584
Did you ever sort your reverse issue? I had a reverse issue with a missing message to the DSC which I had to resolve. If you haven't got it sorted let me know
 

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GabrielD - I actually managed to fix the issue on my car. So what I ended up doing was using NCS Expert and re-coding every module of the car with the 2MA option software. Once I did that, the error code went away and haven’t seen it since. I think what happened was I never properly coded the car and the DSC software was possibly looking for signals from the SMG ecu that is no longer there. Either way, I’d try re-coding the car using NCS Expert and go from there.

I got the 6-speed flywheel and clutch in and torqued on. That flywheel is HEAVY and AWKWARD to get into place. A second set of hands may help. Realize that there is a dowel on the crankshaft that a larger flywheel hole with slot into. You need to get this right otherwise the flywheel will not sit properly and can cause serious damage. Torque to 105nm.

Getting the clutch was also a bit of a hassle as well imo. It’s an odd type that it has splines inside the pressure plate that line up with the clutch disk. If these aren’t lined up prior to mating it up to the flywheel, you will have a hard time trying to get the pins on the flywheel lined up with the holes on the pressure plate. Make sure your clutch comes with the alignment tool that has the detachable bolt. Once that is done, torque the pressure plate to 10nm+2nm. You will then remove the 14mm allen lock ring. Take out the alignment tool.

It’s been a long night but I got it on and ready to prep the trans tomorrow. More on this shortly!
Hi there...
I did a tranny swap on an E90 and now i have the yellow brake light aswell.

Good sir...i dont wanna be a nuisance but i need a step by step guide on how to code my FRMFA...things like what profile to use and staff.

I know the basics of NCS Expert. But i have no confidence in my work.:sneaky:

Thank u in advance
 
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