Same driver, same mileage, same interval, same car.............The differences between the two colums (300091km and 291824km) do not need further explanation; so yes Mobil1 EL 10W60 definitely performs better for S38/M88/S14 and S50 applications.^^
So, in your eyes/experience and comaparing these two oils, woudl you say better is the Mobil 1 extended Life?
As you seem to know a lot about oil:
what do you think about Motul 300V 15W50 ???
I do use it in my E24 /// M6 for more than 12 years now ( change oil every year / more or less 5000 km/year ) and it doesn't eat even a cl of oil.
Can I use it on a S38 B38 with same utilisation, or better Mobil 1 10W60 ? ( BMW mainteance book says 15W50 )
thanks in advance for your return..:typing:
CorrectSo if i resume: 300V is good enough for the lubrication but as we don't have the proof (yet ) not enough good for the protection. but 300V 20W60 is ? Am I right ??
CorrectLet me just say this. 300V 20W60 has been confirmed for having sufficient ZDDP for S14/S38/M88 applications.
Mobil1 15W50 more than meets the requirements so there is no need to change, BUT that is always a personal choice. Oil-discussions always result into heated debates. But if Motul 300V 15W50 is confirmed for having enough ZDDP, I would prefer it over its 20W60 sibling for all applications with the exception of endurance racing.On my M88 as I don't have catalysor I should switch
High amounts of ZDDP is detrimental for the catalytic converter on the long-term…… So yes, Mobil1 EL 10W60 is not the first choice for S38, however, we have asked ourselves the question what is more important to ourselves. The catalytic converter or the engine ? As long as we can still buy used S38B38 cats (also fit S38B36) in the 150-300 Euro region, why bother ?And on my S38 as i have a catalysor if I switch it is good for the engine but "risky" for the catalysor
No, for two simple reasons; first, its HTHS is high and whilst this is good for protection, there is something as too much as a high HTHS also results into high dynamic shearing losses and thus a reduction of power. Second, its base-grade is 20W meaning it is relatively thick at cold temperatures. Now, this may not be of concern in the south of France when ambient are always high, but there are regions were the ambient temperatures can be low even in the summer, high altitudes in the Alps or late in the driving seasons (September-November) in my hemisphere (Netherlands), hence why I prefer a 10W60 oil.And raymond did you tried the 300V 20W60 ?
Yes, but this is then only to confirm the content of these two main elements; but bear in mind that ZDDP actually is Zn[S2P(OR)2]2 or zincdialkyldithiophosphate. A UOA does not confirm how much of the Zn and P are still active as ZDDP, but it does tell the initial content.Do you think It could be intersting to do an analysis of my M88 oil ( as it is the 300V 15W50 ) to compare level of P and Zn ???:typing:
Thank you, that is always very helpful as I use UOA to confirm manufacturers claims. If the UOA confirms the datasheet specification, the circle is complete, but if it doesn’t action is needed.- S38B38 E34 M5. Catalyst points to using something other than Mobil EL 10w60. I am currently using Motul 15w50 so await the ZDDP results (if they ever come) with interest. I will do another used oil analysis once my mileage is high enough so I can post the results and that will help us all draw conclusions.
Agreed. But, back in 2000, TWS was specified for having a Ph content of 1000ppm (typical). This is sufficient for the S38. Now, as from 2004, Castrol lowered the Zn and Ph-content of TWS gradually to meet the requirements for new cars. At the same time, TWS was removed from the BMW special oil list (which was discontinued in February 2004).- S14 E30 M3 Evo2. Importantly the Evo2 has no cat, so based on this thread I may switch to Mobil EL 10w60. Currently Motul 15w50 and previously, I'm sorry to say, Castrol 10w60 before this thread taught me better.
Actual choice on 10W60 oils is thin…. S50 has solid buckets that are operated directly by the cams. I would stay away from low-ZDDP oils regardless of brands. Yes, there is a controversy between catalyst and engine……. However the cost for a top-end rebuild (new cams etc) is much higher than those for some new cats that can also be bough S/H- S50 Z3 M Coupe. One page ago you speak positvely about Mobil EL10w60 for S50 applications, but in the most recent post a concern about the cats is implied. I know the valve mechanism is different in the S50 to the S54 (where you recommend Castrol 10w60) so I would love to know your thoughts on the s50. Presumably an oil with more ZDDP than Castrol but less than Motul might be what to look for ?
info about Castrol... :dont:
1) All new BMW's require synthetic. As far as weight, only certain production dates of M3's and M5's require the use of Castrol TWS 10w-60.
2) The Factory BMW Synth 5w-30 is a version of Castrol TXT Softect sold overseas. A few important things about the BMW oil a) it is a Group III hydrocracked oil which cannot be called synthetic in Europe, b) it is a heavy 30 weight (30 weight can run from [email protected], the BMW oil is about 12.2cst), c) it is a ACEA A3 oil which means that it is approved for longer change intervals and has a HTHS (High Tempurature High Shear) measured at 150c of greater than 3.5.
3) In the US, the only Group IV PAO Synthetics that are available are 1) Mobil 1, 2) Amsoil (but not the Xl-7500), 3) Royal Purple, and 4) German Castrol 0w-30 (it has the red label and says on the back, "Made in Germany). Redline is a Group V PolyEster based oil. All other Castrol, Quaker State, Pennzoil, Valvoline "synthetics" are a Group III hydrocracked oil. It is debated how much better Group IV base oils are than group III, but generally they are considered better.
4) When looking for oil for any BMW that does not require Castrol TWS 10w-60, you want to purchase an oil that has either/both of the following ratings, a) ACEA A3, or b) BMW LL-98 or LL-01.
5) Note that Mobil 1 0w-30, 5w-30, and 10w-30 are NOT ACEA A3 or BMW LL approved oils. This is because they all are thin 30 weight oils (approximately 9.8-10 [email protected] 100c) and have HTHS of approximately 3.1. Mobil 1 0w-40 and 15w-50 are A3 rated and the Ow-40 is BMW LL-01 approved. For 99% of climates and users 0w-40 or 5w-40 is the appropriate grade. There are some 0w-30 and 5w-30 oils (like the BMW 5w-30) that are forumlated on the heavier end of the 30 weight scale and are accordingly rated A3. These oils will work well also. LOOK FOR THAT ACEA A3 rating. If the oil doesn't have it, pass on it.
This opinion resulted in one of the first of many so-called ‘oil-wars’ on automotive enthusiast forums, however unlike most of these discussions this opinion is based on a study of BMW service bulletins that existed in 1998 just prior to the release of service bulletin SI110898 that specifically recommends using synthetic motor-oils for all BMW engines that were manufactured prior to 1998. However, there is no distinction between the type and origin of the engine due to which the requirements for the older BMW Motorsport engines are open to interpretation of the reader of the document that actually may read between the lines that any 5W30 oil may be used (refer to the quoted phrase from SI110898 at the start of this chapter). Given the fact that many dealers and service agents have their own ‘preferred supplier’ for lubricants, chances are that specific factory approvals are missed in favor of the SAE-requirements that generally are lower than factory requirements, e.g. the BMW LL01 or the VAG 50x.0x standards. If these are not specifically met, engine-damage might occur for highly-stressed parts.MrM5 said:“People use synthetic oil for a variety of reasons; protection during long drain intervals, cold starting characteristics, resistance to thermal breakdown, etc. I change my oil far too frequently to worry about the first, and my local climate minimizes the second consideration during all but a few months out of the year. For me synthetic oil's ability to actually protect my motor while under load at sustained oil temperatures is crucial.”
I have received the requested information about ZDDP from Motul for their Competition 300V 15W50.Hi Raymond ,
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge !!!!
I' m gonna send 2 samples of 300v 15w50 At blackstone lab:
50 ml of brand new oil ( then we' ll have the P &Zn answer )
50ml from my M88
that is typically my ///M635 "life"... I only do more or less 4000km a year.For catalyst application and cars that see prolongued period of inactivity, Motul Competition 15W50 is hard to beat.