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You wont be sorry that the Castrol 10w60 is our of range, as this thread contains some quite convincing evidence that the ZDDP is too low for these cars. I don't know about those oils you list but there's lots of enthusiasm on this forum for Mobil Long Life 10w50, Fuchs Pro R 15w 50 and Motul 15w50 IIRC. But I'm sure the most important thing is clean oil and regular changes. I try and do most cars annually but Raymond posted some convincing research that led me to conclude I could drop down to every 2-3 years on my E30 M3 which has the Mobil 10w60 and hardly does any miles.


So if you don't know how old the oil is, or if its the Castrol then I would change it out asap, and get the new oil tested after (say) 1-2k miles.
 

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Sorry if this is the wrong thread for this.

I'm about to do a change on my S38B36 and given TWS 10w-60 has been discontinued (and is now priced here as if it were actual liquid gold, nearly A$20/Ltr..).

I'm considering two oils at present, both the factory spec'd viscosity 15w-40:

Liqui-Moly 15w-40 High Tech Touring (No idea on zinc, but should be 1000ppm or so given ACEA B4 I'm lead to believe...)
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1095.html?OpenDocument&land=DE

The other, from an Australian company is the Penrite Semi-Synthetic 15w-40 (Full Zinc).
SEMI SYNTHETIC 15W-40 (Semi Syn.)

EDIT:
Could only see VANTAGE 15w-40 available in stores.. -> VANTAGE SEMI SYNTHETIC 15W-40
One of my local shops was running a 30% off deal, so grabbed a 10L tub, $5.80/Ltr, worse case the W124 260E can burn through it.

I will be sending off for analysis a sample of the current oil (Probably edge 10w-60 given the workshop who serviced it last) and again at regular intervals.

I have access to Liqui-Moly at good prices through a friend, so if the above 15w-40 or their 10w-40/10w-60 is suitable oil please let me know.

Also, given I don't rack up the km's on my M5, what's the recommended change interval by time?
I quite like Penrite myself. I was using Shell 15w50 semi synth for ages, but they recently changed formula and the zinc dropped from 1200 to something ridiculously low (i forget exactly).. so I did some research and currently In my M5 I'm using Penrite HPR-10 which is a fully synthetic 10w50. Also in their "full zinc" range. They have a good techncial bulletin on ZDDP on their site. I try to buy it in 20L bulk when on sale so it ends up pretty cheap.

In my wife's E46 I'm using HPR-5 which is actually approved by BMW as an LL-01 oil - there's a copy of the approval letter on their website. Between that and the fact that they have heaps of technical info on their site, it seems to me like a good "enthusiast" brand - and it's Australian so you can get it everywhere...
 

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I have to admit that I didn't share much content in the past few months; this is partially explained by a very busy work-agenda, but also because I took on two car-related projects that have no relevance with an E34 M5, albeit this changed due to the course of the E32 735i project, of which I shared an UOA last year.



We had the plan to perform an inspection II and a Bernd Prickartz overhaul of the injectors for this particular car (3152643), but when inspecting the camshaft sprocket, we observed some wear that ultimately opened the typical ‘tin-can of worms’.



Originally, we planned for a replacement of the camshaft sprocket only, but when checking the timing, we observed that the crankshaft was a bit off as well.



At this stage, we reconsidered the scope of this project and ultimately decided to replace the entire timing chain and associated parts. I have to admit that from an economic point of view, such a surgery doesn’t make sense on a 28 year old non ///M car, but from an educational perspective, this project can yield some much appreciated new insights and experiences. In addition, the M30B35 shares basic design elements with the S38B3x engine including the use of the same oil-pump, which for these engines is a ‘mission critical’ component because there is no redundancy, hence the oil pump is a ‘single point of failure’. Later more on this, but given that the replacement of the entire distribution is a huge extension of the original scope (inspection II), I was forced to postpone the scheduled work on my own E34S M5 (BK02837). I won’t go into detail about the replacement and failure mode analysis of the timing-chain and sprocket (can do a write-up on that if there is some interest from our members), but we completed that part of the project by mid-January. This comprehended the replacement of:

• Crankshaft sprocket
• Plastic chain guide
• Oil pump chain
• Oil pump chain tensioner
• Timing chain tensioner Rail
• Timing chain
• Seals of crankshaft and lower timing-case
• New camshaft sprocket
• New chain tensioner piston, spring and plug.



The synergies with the S38B3x start with the oil-pump. Being eager to learn, I disassembled this part into individual pieces for additional investigation.



Those with a little more knowledge of these Eaton-type pumps, will probably miss the piston of the low pressure relieve valve on the picture above. This should be an easily to remove part, yet on this pump it had too much inside resistance to drive it out. For the rest, the inner parts looked fine; granted, the pumps rotors showed some wear, but bear in mind that the pump is fed from an unfiltered oil-supply in the sump, so it mangles all dirt and wear elements that are not blocked by the filters protection screen in the input-nozzle.



We did consider replacement of the entire oil-pump, but at the time of this project, it was not available as a new part. Since no lead-time was given, I was reluctant to damage the cylinder by forcing it out. In order to learn more, I asked help from a fellow countryman, Ivo Christov, who had a high mileage M30B30 engine lying around. We agreed that this is an interesting study object, so Ivo send it to me soon after. We disassembled it and to no surprise, the piton of the low pressure relieve valve dropped out by itself.



In addition, the rotor’s coming from the pump from Ivo showed much more wear than the pump from 3152643, which is logical because Ivo stated that the despite the mileage of the original (M30B30) is not verifiable, it at least covered 300000 kilometres. This matches with the wear-pattern found on the rotor’s.



Basically, we can learn two things here:

1. If you doubt the mileage on the odo-meter of your car, just open the oil-pump and ‘read’ its wear.
2. The wear-pattern found on the rotor’s of 3152643 oil-pump do NOT explain for the level of wear elements reported by Blackstone in report H02539.

Coincidentally, the piston of the original pump of 3152643 dropped out simultaneously when inspecting and analysing the pump from that M30B30 engine.



Simultaneously, some debris fell from its cylinder.



I don’t know why the piston suddenly released, but these observations prove some non-conformance to the original design, which was confirmed when we had the front assembly casing cleaned and inspected by a professional who stated that the cylinder contained a ridge that prevented the free movement of the piston.



The hypothesis is that because the low-pressure relieve valve didn't move freely inside its cylinder, the oil pressure didn't regulate properly anymore resulting that the oil pressure does not correlate linearly with the increase or decline of the engine speed. As a result, the supply of oil towards the oil-filter does not have a constant velocity anymore resulting in highly stressed parts to receive not enough lubrication. Typically, con-rod bearings and camshafts are the first to suffer.



Because new pumps are not available, we decided to rebuild the existing pump of 3152643. The cylinder of the low pressure relieve valve was slightly machined and honed again, which restored the pistons movability. In addition, we installed factory new rotors and seals which should be more than enough for an M30B35.



For an S38B3x I would prefer a new oil-pump though, so I am glad not to have been confronted with this dilemma with my E34S M5. For a M30B35, I see this as an experiment that makes sense in every respect, but most importantly, we learn from this. From this point, we could have decided to reinstall the oil-pump, but given the lessons that we learnt, I decided to replace the con-rod bearings as well. Blackstone already reported high amounts of lead, copper and tin in the last sample, so it wasn't unexpected that the upper-halves of the bearings were completely worn (at least from my perspective)



The following picture shows the old upper-halve shells of cylinders #3 and #4 ad compares this with a factory new bearing sourced from my BMW dealer. These bearings are of the so-called Tri-metal type. The first layer is a soft and thin lead-based overlay, the second layer is a nickel barrier whilst the third layer is a lead/copper and tin alloy. Clearly visible is that the wear has reached the last layer before the steel substrate; whilst one may argue how much life is left in these bearings, chances are that if left unattended, the engine will blow a rod at some point in the future.



So we replaced them all, which gave an added benefit as well; practical hands-on experience if I ever need to do this on an S38B3x.



Generally, this task is not so difficult, but one needs to be careful and methodical. The main risk is an accidental re installation of the lower-con-rod halves in the wrong position or direction. If that occurs, the engine will blow eventually because these parts are manufactured to precise and matching tolerances.



Although we didn’t plan to go this far, everything that we have observed and found can be correlated to the oil analysis of Blackstone with as root cause, an oil pump that didn’t work as it should. Since this part is shared with the S38B3x, some of the E34 M5 population will undoubtedly have the same issues. I hope that the lifecycle status of the short oil pump is soon back to available again, because I want to secure one for my E34S M5 that also has some (minor) bearing wear that needs to be addressed.
 

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Agreed, a most excellent post.

I've ordered a kit from a local UOA company here in Aus and was contemplating testing my gearbox oil too.. When the oil was last changed a little chunk of a gear tooth was found on the magnet and although I have receipts for a rebuild <5k km's ago, the shifter has always vibrated in 4th.
 

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M60B40 oil change

Just changed the oil in the 540/5 and it came out black and smelly after 2,500kms

Shell Helix HX5 20W-50

Shell Helix HX5 20W-50 | Shell Global

I changed the oil as there was a fair bit of valve train noise on start up (30 deg C outside) with the engine cold which tells me the oil is getting marginal.

I swapped a junkyard M60B40 into my 530 and did the first oil change at 250kms (also black) so I'm hoping this is all from flushing out crud from a junkyard engine that could have been sitting for years.

I bought some Castrol TWS 10/60 today as it was the only half decent oil the shop had

I was tempted to use Mobil 1 0W-50 but it said racing use only (any tips on this ?)
 

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Previously i use Teboil 10w-60, now NLA. Last summer i use Kendall 15w-40, also now NLA.

This years first drive outside temp was +0.5C. Last week i drove M5, max outside temp was +14C, average maybe +7C. I drive quite moderately, maybe once a year oil temp exceed +80C. This makes me wonder, should next oil be 5w-40/50? Maybe Mobil 5w-50, local M mechanics recommend that for S85.
 

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Gents,

Following is a UAO from Blackstone. Oil is Brad Penn 20w50 semi-synthetic with 2450 miles of use. Of note is the high TBN of 5.9, and superb phosphorous (1396) and zinc (1604) measurements.

This was my first use of Brad Penn since owning the car. I am running my usual Valvoline 20w50 as I wanted to see results before deciding whether or not to continue with the Brad Penn semi-synthetic. Based on the Blackstone report it seems like a good reason to switch. What do you think?

Greg

P.S. Cannot get the Blackstone report to attach. If someone can tell me how I will gladly post it. I have attached reports in the past but I suppose something got "improved" so now I cannot figure it out!
 

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This was my first use of Brad Penn since owning the car. I am running my usual Valvoline 20w50 as I wanted to see results before deciding whether or not to continue with the Brad Penn semi-synthetic. Based on the Blackstone report it seems like a good reason to switch. What do you think?
Brad Penn has always been on my radar as it has excellent specifications and your results proof that it has excellent performance as well.

The only reason why I am not using it because I am concerned about the impact to the seals and gaskets when reverting back from synthetics to mineral, but is that a fact?
 

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I did have the same concern about the potential to cause seals to leak. I have not noticed an increase in leakage from the original pan seal. It is described as a semi-synthetic. Not sure exactly what this means concerning the formulation. I plan to use Brad Penn again on the next change and for continuity I will service at the same mileage and get another Blackstone report to help make the best comparison to Valvoline.
 

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I did have the same concern about the potential to cause seals to leak. I have not noticed an increase in leakage from the original pan seal. It is described as a semi-synthetic. Not sure exactly what this means concerning the formulation. I plan to use Brad Penn again on the next change and for continuity I will service at the same mileage and get another Blackstone report to help make the best comparison to Valvoline.
 

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Previously i use Teboil 10w-60, now NLA. Last summer i use Kendall 15w-40, also now NLA.

This years first drive outside temp was +0.5C. Last week i drove M5, max outside temp was +14C, average maybe +7C. I drive quite moderately, maybe once a year oil temp exceed +80C. This makes me wonder, should next oil be 5w-40/50? Maybe Mobil 5w-50, local M mechanics recommend that for S85.
I bought this
 

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Latest analysis.

This makes a comparison between Valvoline VR-1 non-synthetic 20W-50 and Brad Penn semi-synthetic 20W-50 oils.

Noted in the report is the increase in iron which is likely due to several hard runs at sustained 5,000-6,500 RPM to blow off carbon.

Between the two oils, a point of interest is the flash point with the Brad Penn being below the desired value of greater than 385 F. The magnesium level is also quite elevated for Brad Penn. Other than these two measurements, it appears the Brad Penn has more favorable numbers, especially in the ZDDP department.

Thoughts?
 

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The last documented UOA of my E34S M5 was performed in September 2015 at 191568km. This UOA already demonstrated elevated wear levels of copper, iron and lead, which pointed towards bearing wear.



Originally, it was planned to replace the conrod bearings in the winter of 2015/2016, however two other car related projects came in between due to which this was postponed to the winter of 2016 and 2017. In the past few months, we took on this project and replaced not only the conrod bearings, but (purely as a preventive measure) the oil pump as well.



When performing the engine rebuild of the M88/3 engine of my E28S M5, I paid less than 10 Euro for a single bearing shell. However that was in 2009. Nowadays in 2017, their retail price has more than tripled.



After some time being out of stock, BMW supplies the ‘short-type’ oil pump again, however these retail at over 500 Euro ex VAT nowadays, but bear in mind that this is a mission-critical part and a single point of failure as well so from that point of view, it is imperative to replace the old pump.



After removing the sump, the oil pump and the crankshaft became visible to the full extent for the first time in twenty-seven years. As can be seen, the bottom end has that nice brown varnish colour; the engine is completely free of insoluble and/or sludge, which is a clear testimony if regular and short term oil changes with high quality engine oil, at least during my watch (since April 1999).



From the historical documentation, it appears as if BK02837 was not given frequent oil changes during its first four years. This is however unlikely as she was then in the inventory of a BMW main service agent in Switzerland and not registered for the first time until June 1994. Given this status, it is very unlikely that in between the first service by Roseg in Pontresina and the first delivery in 1994, no oil changes were performed.



Even though some wear was expected after 195655 kilometres, the extend of which cannot be determined (and documented) without performing a visual inspection. If one takes a closer look to some of them, spot wear down to the steel substrate can be seen



The journals for the conrod of cylinders #1 and #3 showed some scoring marks. Fortunately, the scoring could not be felt and a light polish made them disappear.



Upon disassembly of the original oil-pump, only mild level of wear to its moving parts was observed. Based on its condition, it was perfectly defendable to reuse the old pump, however (1) from a risk management perspective and (2) the current market developments for E34S M5’s in good to excellent condition maintaining the old pump would have been the wrong decision, so it had to be replaced.



The outer rotor showed some scoring, which is normal for these (eaton) type of oil pumps because te pump is situated in between the sump and the filter and thus is subject to unfiltered oil from te sump and thus prone to elements of engine wear and dirt.



The short summary is that any well maintained S38B36 can suffer from conrod bearing wear. In my particular case, I think the engine would have lasted no more than 10k kilometres without dropping a rod. Granted, this particular engine saw some appropriate use during the 94016 kilometres that I have added since April 1999. Using a different type of oil would certainly not have delayed the bearing wear. On the contrary, using a low-weight oil would only have accelerated the bearing wear during the more stressful driving conditions (at least 50% of my kilometres).
 

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You got stock size bearings and did not measure?
I did actually, but demonstrating the process (how to) is not the intention of my contribution, which was merely aimed to scientifically proove the usefullness of Used Oil Analysis as an early detection method for critical bearing wear.
 

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Hi All,

I've got my first sample being tested at the moment but had a phone call today citing that the flash point test had revealed >5% petrol dilution in my oil.

Ever since getting the car back from having the MAF replaced and vac lines replaced it has not run 100%, performance is down and I'm wondering whether the above is a result of over fueling. It certainly seems to have a small vac leak and small stumble at idle.

I'll post the full results when I get them for your advice.

Cheers
 

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Ok, got the report:

Oil:
PENTRITE HPR10
[email protected]: 131
[email protected]: 19
TBN: 7.5

Report:
Wear Metals ppm
lead: 6
iron: 12
aluminium: 2
copper: 2
chromium 1
tin: 1
nickel: 0

Contaminents ppm
silicon: 13
sodium: 1

Oil Additives ppm
magnesium: 190
zinc: 920
molybdenum: 47
calcium: 2255
phosphorous: 789
boron: 17

Infra Red
TBN: 6.80
soot: 3
glycol%: 0
Fuel dilution: 3%
water: 0
oxidation: 13
nitration: 9
sulphation: 18

Physical Tests:
water%: 0
PQ-90 mg/ltr: 1
[email protected]: 15.85
[email protected] 97.48

Comments:
3% Fuel Dilution detected, please check fuel delivery system.


This 3000kms has seen significant idling in peak traffic as well as a number of short trips.

I am going to change the oil to Penrite HPR15-60, a full synthetic with full zinc additive package.

They are recommending an additive called Nanolub WS2. Anyone heard of this one?

Company that did the oil analysis is Techenomics
 

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I found that I had another 6L bottle of the HPR10. Given all the wear metals looked good to me, I changed the oil and put in a new bmw filter and decided to change the air filter and spark plugs at the same time. I will dump it in 12 months or 2000kms.

Adding Report
 

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