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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi,

I am sorry if this post is too long but I would like to share some real facts with those who are interest in Oil topic.

I decided to start doing some real oil testings from my daily driver E24 M6 S38-B35 and also my Race Track car E24 M6 S38-B36 powered.

Well, the oil I have selected to use is only 10W-60 grade. My choices for now will be Red Line 10W60, Luquil Moly GT1 10W-60 possible other Oil brand but for now this is enough.

So hear are some fact for my daily driver. 88' M6 200k+ on original engine, never opened ! Purchased my car like 8 years ago with 102k miles. since then I have been using only 10W-60 TWS but since the price jumped big and not worth to spend so much money on oil change since I changing my oil between 2,500-3k miles max. Since I quit using TWS because of its ridiculous price I switched to Liquil Moly 10W-60. "0"-(zero) oil consumption in between oil changes.

Driving conditions- I have put 100k+ miles with "0"-(zero) engine problems! On cold start the engine oil light goes off almost before all 6cyl fire up, idle at~1000rpms when cold. No timing chain noise on cold start etc..

Now, I decide to go 5,000 miles and start doing oil changes from 5k down in testings. So my next test will be at 4k miles, next will be at 3k miles. I will be using the same oil for the race track and do some testings as well to see how it does hold on abuse!

Now hear is the most interesting part.

I spoke with the rep. from the oil lab about 45mins and he was veery patient with me since I had tons of question about this about that...And he explained to me that the oils I chose to discus such as Mobile-1 15W50, 10W60 TWS, Red line 10W60 etc... all they are very good and quality oils! And if you hear this from somebody that does test oil all the long and you are kind of on a cross road...

He pointed that the most important is how the particular engine accept the chosen oil from above. I believe he is right because for example my buddy with E46 M3 S54 did use red line 10w60 and at 3k miles the S54 eat about ~450ml of oil then he switched to Motul 10w60 for motor cycles and he has less oil use...My S38 does not touch the oil vs S54

Also we spoke that if an existing engine is worn out such as Bearings, Head gasket antifreeze leak, other ware etc.. the oil will not help, possible to reduce some ware but not proven.

We discussed as well that ZDDP big booo hooo I know its important. He said the oil I have chosen to test/use they are above average on ZDDP. The Liquil Moly is about 960 at 5k miles and I will see next time Red Line 10w60 and compare because they are claiming High on ZDDP. Again the rep. said that even it enough 900+.

Liquil Moly has very high Flash point at 5k miles almost 400 ! that is actually very good.

The Rep and I discussed my oil test result shows that my "Lead" is a hair over average. The Lead stance for bearing ware, in our S38 world rod bearing and since they are the original I do expect that. He said that the MOST important is this number not go over 10! then for sure their is something going wrong !

The rep. wants to see at 4k miles how this number will be. he thinks this number will go down when do I do at 3k(will see on my next oil test)

Reference- S62-B50 with the same Oil Test with little less than 4k miles oil change and 50k on original engine miles the "Lead" is 8+ I was actually kind of shocked because 200k miles S38 at 5k oil change has 5 lead vs S62 with less than 50k miles.

Soon at 4k miles I will report more details.

I will keep doing oil analyze and continue to report.

Best
Anri
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Anyone with similar oil analyst result will be great to show.


Anri
 

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Great post , Anri .

I have a couple of samples that are due for a UOA and will post results in due course .

Thanks again for taking the time to share .

D
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Great post , Anri .

I have a couple of samples that are due for a UOA and will post results in due course .

Thanks again for taking the time to share .

D
Dave,

Please post what ever you have and lets compare :M5rev:

Anri
 

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I'll have to search my old laptop or maybe at home. I know i have a couple of these for my car with TWS. I used tery dyson at dyson analysis.
 

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My B38 has about 154k kms on it. When purchased the car I found it was being serviced the last oil changes with something thick, like 25/w-60 or so according to a shop that was responsible for service the car with previous owner. I was shocked they were using so thick oil where the manual states use something about 10w40 or 15w40. So I did two oil change to "clean up" the old thick oil with Magnatec 15W40 and thats what I have been using or used because my car has almost 155k kms and when I purchased the car had about 153k kms on the clock. I do see oil comsuption, last time I had to add like 1/4 and probably ran like less than 800k kms on it before refill and not only once the refill was done, but twice. I must say "race out" this B38 when driving in the city every time I can so the engine sees a lot of redline and hard pulls. I still thinking to switch to Liqui moly 10W60 race and see if that help with oil comsuption.

Your thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
My B38 has about 154k kms on it. When purchased the car I found it was being serviced the last oil changes with something thick, like 25/w-60 or so according to a shop that was responsible for service the car with previous owner. I was shocked they were using so thick oil where the manual states use something about 10w40 or 15w40. So I did two oil change to "clean up" the old thick oil with Magnatec 15W40 and thats what I have been using or used because my car has almost 155k kms and when I purchased the car had about 153k kms on the clock. I do see oil comsuption, last time I had to add like 1/4 and probably ran like less than 800k kms on it before refill and not only once the refill was done, but twice. I must say "race out" this B38 when driving in the city every time I can so the engine sees a lot of redline and hard pulls. I still thinking to switch to Liqui moly 10W60 race and see if that help with oil comsuption.

Your thoughts?
Diego,

Statistic wise B38 engine are prone to eat more oil vs B36 engines. Sure when you drive it to red line its going to consume more oil no matter what engine is. This is the nature of M-engines. Also other race prep engine. Loose internal parts, less friction, hi rpms etc..

Also, the reason the previous shop who serviced the car and did oil change with 20W60 is the proper grade not (25w60). The reason they used such a thick oil is because the oil consumption on this particular B38 engine is not from yesterday.

You should have starting point: Do Compression, Leak down test so you can have little more information about this particular engine.

1/4 oil for 800km that is a lot I think. Thick oil will reduce the oil consumption in general know. For example my wife's E53 X5 3.0 consume ~350ml every 3.000 miles using 5w30 switched to 5w40 no more oil consumption in between oil changes what so ever.

Anri
 

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Anri, you are right probably about 20w-60 but I remember the guy told over the phone it was 25w-60 and I was surprised, didn't know that grade of oil "existed" if at all.

I did a leak down test cyl last year and this was what I got:

1) 15%
2) 12%
3) 11%
4) 20%
5) 18%
6) 14%


For the compression test, I can't remember exactly but there is number that comes to my head, 190 PSI per cyl (all).

My car doesn't smoke, but If I red line it, it will expulse a little chunk of smoke that you can see through the rear mirror if you have good eye, otherwise it won't be viewble, this smoke is a mix of black (rich condition) between skyblue color, most of the time is darker (rich) rather than skyblue color (this one is very little that average person won't see I guess).

-Diego
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Raymond's Oil Test

Raymond,

I started this oil thread whit oil lab test comparing different BMW M Engines.

I am pulling few more Blackstone test in comparison I have found.

Hear is my BlackStone test and you can see my S38-B35 as results in comparison to your still breaking in period.

I am absolute positive that your numbers will come down a lot.

The viscosity on the TWS vs Lubro is little lower but I guess that is making the oil little more liquid. In my opinion I like the Lubro choice little better because it will allow the engine parts to move more free, but that is just on paper and theory...But Butt Dyno will never ever catch that.

Lubro Mouly Flash point is higher than TWS whit I think a lot 20F is not little bit.

I have found very interesting Lab testings I will share in comparison.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
M-Coupe S54 powered.

Hi,

S54 powered

.
 

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Thanks Anri for adding my (Blackstone) lab-results to this thread. I made this thread sticky and added it to the E28 and E34 FAQ's for future reference and to motivate member carrying out oil-analysis on their cars and publish the results so we can all benefit.

Blackstone laboratories offers an excellent service and a basic test only costs US$25. I added the TBN test (US$10) to predict service life of the engine-oil.

Thanks a lot for this initiative. :cheers:

For more details behind the reason of my oil-analysis, please refer to this thread about my E28 M5.

For a similar program on the E39 forum, check this thread
 

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What would grade oil would you recommend for the tropics ? We don't see much below 20 deg Celsius and 30 to 40 deg Celsius most days.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
What would grade oil would you recommend for the tropics ? We don't see much below 20 deg Celsius and 30 to 40 deg Celsius most days.
Please open your E34 M5 Owner's Manual and see what the Manufacturer recommends for your location.

Just an idea, 10W-60 is I believe not a bad idea but that's me !

Let concentrate on Oil Analyst !!! and stay inline 6cyl 24 Valves.

Anri
 

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Discussion Starter #14

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
E39 M5 Lubro Mouly

Hi,

Hear I pulled great comparison in Viscosity !!!

Running Lubro Moly 10W60
Running Lubro Moly 5W40
Running Lubro Moly 0W40
Running Lubro Moly 0W40

The guy compared the same oil brand but diff viscosity.

As you can see the 10W-60 is the Winner as usual. I knew 6+ years ago when I got my E24 M6 S38 to use only 10W-60 starting whit TWS but later switched to Lubro Mouly ever since 100k miles only 10W-60 and no problem no ware.

My compression is still the same as I got my car back at 102k miles..

Many mechanics around me were telling me that the engine will start leak like crazy if I switched to synthetic oil, this old S38's are design to run with mineral oils tralalalalla.

I will never ever use any other viscosity oil except 10W-60, period. But that's Just Me.

Many people many opinions


My Comment in comparison

As I was told by the guy at the lab that every engine will ware the oil differently using the same brand oil and viscosity. Comparing my 10W60 lab test in comparison to this one I find that Aluminum is higher than my S38-B35 well the S62 has 2 more cylinders and more bearing shells so I think that is expected.

What surprises me is the Zinc on the S62 is higher than mine 1072 vs 970 or so. Not much difference but still both engines have 5k miles oil change using 10W60

Also another very important point is how the car is driven of course. I drive my car moderate but ones in while a guy with E46 M3 trying to show me how much faster his car is and with bitter results sadly they pull with may be a fender away ! Well, I have done some trick to my car but still under 300 ponies.

Best
Anri

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Discussion Starter #17
I took an oil sample of E34 M5 3.6 (GD55450) this evening. Total mileage 291824km. Sample of drained TWS will be shipped to Blackstone next Saturday.
Ray,

Just a tipo.

Before you drain the oil from the oil pan, make sure you get brake cleaner and clean very good the actual drain plug and around the area. This way when you open your drain plug and start draining the oil you dont get a single dot of dust inside the White bottles because I guess it shows in the lab test...

I mean that's just me. You might feel its not needed.

How many miles have you driven the oil ?

I will be very interest to see the oil lab test. Please post is asap when get it back so we can comment it.

off topic: I am working on your e-mail back, just this days is crazy busy. Just start a project with full exterior DTM E30 M3 replica full stickers, the guy wants it...will post pics ones its done...

Regards
Anri
 

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The results of member RobertK his 1991 E34 M5 (GD55450) just came in:



- Extrapolated for the mileage on the oild to the reference; copper content is a bit too high; this will be investigated
- Silicon was rather high; could be the old air-filter; as a matter of coincidence this part was changed simultaniously as the last oil-change
- Just like the oil-analysis of my M88/3 using the same oil, phosphorous content is rather low. This is the reasons why we switched to Mobil1 Extende life 10W60 that has 60% more on ZDDP (1300ppm of phosphorous)
- Kinematic viscosity still is high; I don't know if this is caused by the break-down of the polymers of the VI-improves ? Could be ?
- TBN was nice at 3,3; the oil-change was performed nicely in time.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
E34 M5

This is the reasons why we switched to Mobil1 Extende life 10W60 that has 60% more on ZDDP (1300ppm of phosphorous)
1300ppm is actually very good. above the normal oils.

The Lubro Mouly is around 1000ppm zddp. I will add Red Line ZDDP or ZDDP+ additive and next time I will go lap analyst to see.

Is the E34 M5 you did the oil lab analyst ever been cleaned inside the oil pan ?


Anri
 
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