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I did the same to mine. front had about .8 liters in it even with doing the tis procedure. the bung i used was more shallow but was welded on the the pan. I have a spare pan if anyone wanted to do and exchange service for a quick turn around.
 

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I did the same to mine. front had about .8 liters in it even with doing the tis procedure. the bung i used was more shallow but was welded on the the pan. I have a spare pan if anyone wanted to do and exchange service for a quick turn around.
where did you get the bung/boss? did you machine custom? I was thinking of getting hold of a M12 1.5 pitch aluminium nut and lathe turning one end for a round boss. Does it matter which aluminium alloy would comply with welding? How about 7075-T6? Obviously, it'll be much simpler to just drill and tap. The burning question is if the thickness of the oil pan material is sufficient to thread and withstand multiple torquing over time. Please advise.
 

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The pan and virtually every piece of aluminum on the car is cast not billet. It is A356, so 6061 would be the most similar material for a nut. You can then figure out the best filler rod knowing that, it does matter, but this is not a major structural joint. There is not much of a point in considering 7075, it's properties are more dissimilar than 6061.
 

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thx for the info. Would you know the thickness of the pan at the second-plug point? Just tapping/threading is the simplest approach, providing that there is enough thickness for the thread travel. Is cast aluminum amenable to tapping? The original plug travels about 5-7mm. Also, would you know what's the tolerance for the plug on the inside of the pan so it doesn't interfere with the pump? BTW, it's perplexing to me that BMW engineers made such a basic design error. Even though it makes a big oil stain on their otherwise pristine BMW-issued shirt, It should've been corrected by a recall. Shame.
 

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The pan seems to be 0.2"-0.3" thick it's a casting so the wall thickness is likely not uniform. That is not thick enough for sufficient thread engagement of a 1.5mm pitch for sealing. It seems there at least 1" of space between the pick up screen and the bottom(top) of the area where the drain is. The mold in this area was built up compared to your pan. I can tell by looking at it. I can take a picture of my pan to show you how the inside looks since I have one that is off the engine at the moment.

Easiest route is to find a pan with 2 holes in it on eBay.
 

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This is the bung I installed a few months ago: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D1CLJXN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It has the same threads as the factory oil pan drain bolt. I chose to shorten the bung some to avoid it hanging lower than necessary. I also wanted to ensure that the bung was flush with the interior of the pan. The oil pickup is literally on the other side of the flat portion of the pan, and the interior of the pan is machined flat. I assume the pick almost touches the inside of the pan. I wanted to make sure the bung did not interfere with the oil pickup.
 

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thank u for invaluable info..It's almost a miracle that Amazon would carry such a specialized element. A photo would be great. So you welded on the bung, right? what welding process/material did you use?
 

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I had a machine shop install the bung while I was working on the rod bearings. I know some about welding, but not much. It's just aluminum, so they used whatever welding process is needed to weld aluminum to aluminum (tig, I guess). They did machine the bung down some to make it the shortest length possible, while still avoiding the drain plug sticking up inside the pan.
 

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actually the solution may be much simpler. I've just tapped a M6 1.0 hex head bolt in. The thickness of the oil pan at that point is ~5mm, so the bolt catches at least 5 threads. Used silicon sealer, so no need to torque. The oil in the pan produces no pressure, just gravity. The smaller bolt, M6 vs M12 of the main original plug, will drain slower but who cares. I drilled and tapped all by hand, not even a drill press. Piece of cake. Will provide pictures if anybody cares. My m5 e60 2006 vanos pump failed on only 38k miles. Bummer, learning why. Did my own oil changes 10w60 LiquiMoly every 3000 miles for the last 8yrs, ever since the all-inclusive BMW service expired. On the type of oil question, I am hearing that 0w40 is a better choice, as it reaches all engine components, i.e. rod bearings, immediately rather than after a 5 min warmup cycle. Any comments? Much appreciate all your input. Albert
 

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So maybe immediately but with insufficient lubrication :) But the burning question for me is why the vanos pump would fail at 38K miles? Or the rod bearings, not yet in my case. Proactively, a higher viscosity oil will get to tight tolerance parts faster. There is a youtube blogger Mark, from Canada, who claims that this high performance engine should never be put to any stress till the red line moved up on tach, at least 5 min. Any take on the thinner oil?
 

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The M6 bolt with standard 1.0 pitch seems it should suffice with that wall thickness. I agree that speed of draining is not a big factor, there is not more than 1L that needs to be evacuated anyways. The issue is that potentially repeated and/ or over torquing of that thread. If you are not careful, you can strip out that thread very easily, tapped A356 holes are not very good for being a long lasting threaded hole. Simply putting silicone to seal the hole seems to make sense, but you have to recognize that there is heat cycling of the oil pan and the silicone (or much else for that matter) does not tend to adhere well to oiled surfaces. The hole will expand and contract due to heat, it may not be enough to really leak, but capillary action is a b*tch to deal with. That bolt may weep over time, so you should be very mindful of that.

If you seal the bolt properly you should have no issues, I'd not put a copper washer there since the torque need to compress that washer to seal properly will likely strip out the thread. The biggest thing you need to be mindful of is that if that hole/joint ever does fail while you are driving you are going to lose that oil and starve the oil pump. This is a very bad outcome, it's more than 1L worth of oil at risk....

Also just to clarify, viscosity is RESISTANCE to flow, so a higher viscosity oil (like a 10w60) flows SLOWER at lower temps. Therefore in areas of the engine with tight clearance, oil will have a harder time to flow to those areas compared to a LOWER viscosity oil like a 0w40. Higher viscosity oil is needed when the engine is running at or above the operating temperature which is 200+ degrees, this is where a lower viscosity oil may be too thin to provide sufficient lubrication or oil film thickness.

Many of us who live in colder climate areas in the winter will run a 0W40 since we want max oil flow at low temps to prevent wear at startup. Others seem to careless about that. It's all up to the owner.
 

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I'll be reporting behavior of my solution at runtime. It's really a $5 solution, if you have the M6 tap. The lock-tight silicon sealing solution should withstand the heat cycles. Hardly any torquing. I do my own oil change as I don't trust enough any mechanic do it right. Call it bonding with your machine :) The info plate on the radiator, at the edge of the hood as you open it, say "oil change every 1200 miles". What was BMW thinking/smoking? My mechanic say that is totally nutty and 3k-5k miles interval will suffice, unless you do track racing, launch control and drifting on a regular basis. Will be switching to 0w40 though I live in Santa Monica, California.
 

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You should be perfectly fine if you are changing your own oil and you are mindful that thhole is a bit a of weak area. Given you live in SoCal, you should be fine with 10w60 year round since it hardly gets below 50 deg there... 5w50 is also a great option to consider and approved by BMW too.
 

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Also just to clarify, viscosity is RESISTANCE to flow, so a higher viscosity oil (like a 10w60) flows SLOWER at lower temps. Therefore in areas of the engine with tight clearance, oil will have a harder time to flow to those areas compared to a LOWER viscosity oil like a 0w40. Higher viscosity oil is needed when the engine is running at or above the operating temperature which is 200+ degrees, this is where a lower viscosity oil may be too thin to provide sufficient lubrication or oil film thickness.
Exactly ^^^

No one has proven whether bearing wear occurs when cold or hot. If when cold then one should use a thinner cold oil (i.e. a 0Wx or 5Wx oil). If when hot one should use a thicker hot oil (can't get thicker than 60 but maybe there is some specialty oil out there). So 10w60 IS the best oil for hot conditions.

As a side note, Troy's recommendation of using a hotter thermostat AND thinner 5w50 oil results in a two-fold decrease in oil film when hot.

Read your manual. BMW states 10w60 is good for a certain range of temps. Down to 0 F if memory is right. I've checked two other manufacturers (volvo and suzuki) and they pretty much have the same low temp recommendation of 0F for a 10Wx oil. Some people think the S85 is magical so use thinner oils although they don't get nowhere near 0F. If you live below 0F by all means DON'T use 10w60.

But forget about oil and look into increased clearance bearings. The few examples that have used BE bearings and been disassembled have shown practically zero wear regardless of what oil you use.

5w50 is also a great option to consider and approved by BMW too.
Please show where BMW approves 5w50. If you refer to the infamous 2013 or so TSB then that's a unique way of interpreting a poorly worded document. That TSB has long been superseded and newtis currently (and has always showed afaik) 10W60 as the only approved oil except 5w30 during break-in. And even then BMW imposed a RPM limitation while using 5w30. There's a fresh link to the current newtis oil table in the tech service sticky.
 

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It is well known that the wear in hydrodynamic bearing applications occurs during cold start where the film thickness has not built up yet, primarily due to low/no oil flow or oil pressure. When that concept is sufficiently understood, there will no longer be much debate. Oil sheer at high temperature is needed for other parts of the engine, because there are other parts than just the rod bearings to consider. I've personally got no clue how Troy or anyone else was able to measure oil film thickness when hot. Measuring this stuff is not a trivial matter. Statement about zero wear are nonsense unless there have been actual measurements, perhaps statements like "little visible wear" would be far more accurate and credible.

I don't think BMW's LL-04 matrix is that confusing.

You completely forgot or didn't know about the BE bearing swap that was done in a S65 where they one set on a journal completely failed. I don't recall seeing a full post mortem. It could have been many things....

My prior offer on the 20w oil challenge is still valid, just waiting for someone like you to take it. Free ACL bearings.
 

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I don't see anybody claiming film thickness has been measured. Read again perhaps?

Sure it is well known that normal wear occurs during cold starts. Abnormal wear not so much. Or do you think the wear we see in our engines is normal? Read the clevite PDF on bearing wear, all sorts of causes NOT related to cold starts. Also there's Jim's test with brand new bearings and 0w40 showing same abnormal wear. Sample of one, sure. What do you think about that one? What about the S65 engines that have used thinner oil and still show wear? Read the m3 forums, they are years ahead of us the m5 crowd.

Does anyone care if the torn down BE engines I refer to have lost maybe a tenth of their 0.0002" friction coating? For all practical purposes that's irrelevant. Read more carefully.

No such thing as 5w50 in LL-04. Which is not approved for the S85 anyway. Here's the link so you can read it again: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e60-m5-lim/repair-manuals/11-engine/11-00-engine/1PSryV8

Seems you don't know it's not just one BE failure but three. Robert (BE owner) is the first one to have shown pics of those engines (installer error). Have you read that too? Here:
 

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So it stands to reason that it's better to idle the S85 engine till it reaches the optimal operational temp, regardless of using 10w60 or 0w40 oil, for the sake of RB longevity. Before putting any load on it, i.e. driving. Since I live in Santa Monica, CA, and 10 deg C (50 F) is the coldest it gets, the thicker 10w60 might be a better choice. BTW, this and other threads use acronyms which are not obvious, rather perplexing, to some like myself. For example, "clevite PDF on bearing wear", "BE bearing swap", "ACL bearings", "LL-04 matrix", "newtis oil table", etc. are terms not familiar to me. It'd be good to have a page on this Board where these are defined, and anybody using them make sure that they are. If not, comes up with a definition. Good idea? Thx
 

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So it stands to reason that it's better to idle the S85 engine till it reaches the optimal operational temp, regardless of using 10w60 or 0w40 oil, for the sake of RB longevity. Before putting any load on it, i.e. driving. Since I live in Santa Monica, CA, and 10 deg C (50 F) is the coldest it gets, the thicker 10w60 might be a better choice. BTW, this and other threads use acronyms which are not obvious, rather perplexing, to some like myself. For example, "clevite PDF on bearing wear", "BE bearing swap", "ACL bearings", "LL-04 matrix", "newtis oil table", etc. are terms not familiar to me. It'd be good to have a page on this Board where these are defined, and anybody using them make sure that they are. If not, comes up with a definition. Good idea? Thx
I just start the engine and drive off, keep the revs under 3k then open it up after temp needle is near 210. I redline it a lot for 20k miles pre bearing job and 2500 miles post Lang Racing ACL bearings. Actually runs quieter when I redline ???. Staying with Redline 10W60 oil with 5k oil changes. Works great so far. Then change bearings again after 60k miles.. got another 57500 miles to go!

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