Oil Analysis

10217 Views 52 Replies 14 Participants Last post by Alan Arnesen, 3 d ago

Bobbafett

Discussion Starter · Aug 2, 2017

Hi guys,

Looking for some advice on the results of an oil analysis report I had done recently on my car.

The oil was only 400 miles old but thought I'd have it analysed anyhow as it was being changed.

The results that came back are:

Lead: 3ppm
Nickel: 12ppm
Tin: 1ppm
Boron: 132ppm
Iron: 4ppm
Molybdenum: 44ppm
Silicon: 2ppm
Aluminium: 5ppm
Copper: 2ppm
Sodium: 62ppm

I'm finding myself being concerned over the amount of Boron found in the sample and wanted to ask if this is anything I should be worried about?

The report also states the following at the end:

We have now completed the analysis and can report the viscosity is now a W50 grade

The car has always run on 10W60 M approved Castrol.

Should I be overly concerned with the above readings or is this expected?

Many thanks

Bobba

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ticat928

· #2 · Aug 2, 2017

The M approved TWS oils and other 10w60 Castrol Group 3 variants available in the US consistently test on the lower viscosity range of 10-60w oils even approaching spec of 5w- 50 oils.

Castrol 10w-60 specified for M cars in EU and AU are a higher Group 4 spec with higher flash point as well as viscosity

I recall a few oil tests show that the for US TWS shears to a 40w in as little as 3000 miles

A true 10w-60 spec oil would be Liquid Moly or Red Line

Racer14sl

· #3 · Aug 2, 2017 (Edited)

Blackstone provided me with this below to define the report elements; Your Boron and Molybdenum is high because your oil is only 400 miles old...with that being said, I think your Lead PPM is rather high already...

Aluminum: Pistons, bearings, cases (heads & blocks).
Chromium: Rings, a trace element in steel.
Iron: Cylinders, rotating shafts, the valve train, and any steel part sharing the oil.
Copper: Brass or bronze parts, copper bushings, bearings, oil coolers, also an additive in some gasoline engine oils.
Lead: Bearings.
Tin: Bearings, bronze parts, piston coatings.
Molybdenum: Anti-wear additive, some types of rings.
Nickel: Trace element in steel.
Manganese: Trace element, additive in gasoline.
Silver: Trace element.
Titanium: Trace element.
Vanadium: Trace element.
Boron: Detergent/dispersant additive, anti-freeze inhibitors.
Silicon: Airborne dirt, sealers, gaskets, anti-freeze inhibitors.
Sodium: Anti-freeze inhibitors, additive in some gasoline engine oils.
Calcium: Detergent/dispersant additive.
Magnesium: Detergent/dispersant additive.
Phosphorus: Anti-wear additive.
Zinc: Anti-wear additive.
Barium: Detergent/dispersant additive.

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Reactions: 3

Bobbafett

Discussion Starter · #4 · Aug 2, 2017

Thanks Ticat928 and Racer14sl,

What would be considered a worrying level of Lead in ppm in engine oil, I would guess that as Lead content increases in the oil you would also see an increase in Copper also?

gmak

· #5 · Aug 2, 2017 (Edited)

Didn't the lab comment on what they considered to be high values? Or are they a "report only ,no analysis" shop?

I believe that it's a mistake to depend on oil analysis as an indicator that the bearings are fine. You don't know what the POs did to the car. You may have low lead ppm right now - but who knows what it would have been, say, 2 years ago.

If you search the oil analysis thread on this forum, you can see what others had as results (especially lead) and read the comments about that - you will gain a lot of knowledge and get insights from many more than may respond here.

In this report for example, lead at 3ppm was considered to be within expected limits.

Here is a thread with many oil analysis reports and comments. In one sample Lead is at 6ppm and Blackstone says it's fine.

My report had lead of 1 ppm. They focused on Titanium which was high and could come from engine wear. The focused on fuel dilution which was at the top end of the range - and likely due to idling the car a lot including before the oil sample was taken.

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Skills

· #6 · Aug 2, 2017

Don't worry about it... have a cocktail.

Hasan Shaikh

· #7 · Aug 3, 2017

Hi Bobba

I am surprised that you have 3ppm lead in only 400 miles of driving. Do you allow the engine to warm up before you start pushing it?

Reactions: 1

Bobbafett

Discussion Starter · #8 · Aug 3, 2017

Hi Hasan,

I do indeed let the car warm up first. I actually let the oil get up to temp before I even drive away

Hasan Shaikh

· #9 · Aug 3, 2017

Thats good mate. Lets see what others have to say about the lead content.

What year is your M5 and what is the mileage?

Hasan Shaikh

· #10 · Aug 3, 2017

ticat928 said:
The M approved TWS oils and other 10w60 Castrol Group 3 variants available in the US consistently test on the lower viscosity range of 10-60w oils even approaching spec of 5w- 50 oils.

Castrol 10w-60 specified for M cars in EU and AU are a higher Group 4 spec with higher flash point as well as viscosity

I recall a few oil tests show that the for US TWS shears to a 40w in as little as 3000 miles

A true 10w-60 spec oil would be Liquid Moly or Red Line

If they are based on Group 3 base oils, wouldn't they be classified as semi synthetics.

I love red Line lubricants. Especially their gear oils.

Bobbafett

Discussion Starter · #11 · Aug 3, 2017

Hi Hasan,

Its a 2005 model with just over 51,000 miles on the clock currently

gmak

· #12 · Aug 3, 2017

Bobbafett said:
Hi Hasan,

I do indeed let the car warm up first. I actually let the oil get up to temp before I even drive away

That explains the fuel dilution.

Hasan Shaikh

· #13 · Aug 3, 2017

gmak said:
That explains the fuel dilution.

Why so?

gmak

· #14 · Aug 3, 2017

Fuel dilution seems to occur in these cars when they aren't driven at operating temperature for a while. Sitting and idling means that the engine runs longer below op temp and the fuel in the oil won't burn off.

Reactions: 1

Hasan Shaikh

· #15 · Aug 3, 2017

gmak said:
Fuel dilution seems to occur in these cars when they aren't driven at operating temperature for a while. Sitting and idling means that the engine runs longer below op temp and the fuel in the oil won't burn off.

That makes sense :cheers:

Emfiver

· #16 · Aug 3, 2017

gmak said:
Fuel dilution seems to occur in these cars when they aren't driven at operating temperature for a while. Sitting and idling means that the engine runs longer below op temp and the fuel in the oil won't burn off.

Yes. The best way to warm up the car is by driving it (staying away from high load, high rpm and high throttle opening %) until warm.

All cars have thermostats to isolate the coolant heat exchangers and those with external oil coolers usually have an oil stat too. So there's no worry that driving the car will keep it cool as the heat exchangers are bypassed until up to temp.

Letting it idle for extended periods when cold is a bad idea. It prolongs the time the engine is running at below operating temp. That promotes wear and fuel dilution.

Reactions: 1

ticat928

· #17 · Aug 3, 2017

Hasan Shaikh said:
If they are based on Group 3 base oils, wouldn't they be classified as semi synthetics.

I love red Line lubricants. Especially their gear oils.

There was a false advertising claim against Castrol that was successfully defended:

"One thing people forget is that after the ruling that Castrol was not out of bounds calling Group III base oils "synthetic" every major oil company switched their base stock to the more profitable Group III. That is except for Mobil 1. Maybe Mobil refused to accept the ruling. No matter. What followed was a disaster for the average consumer especially those driving German cars still under warranty. Here's why:

People driving Germain cars, BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagen, were required to use certain spec oils to remain under the manufacturer's warranty. These same owners noticed the name "Castrol Synthetic" on the expensive oil the Dealer was installing and many decided to save money and have Castrol Syntec installed at a local lube center or maybe did it themselves at home. What was worse, some of these cars had extended oil drain intervals up to 20,000 miles. What followed was a lot of sludging and engine damage with a lot of people being told their warranty was voided. The reason there was so much confusion is the motor oil sold at the Dealership service department were European Group IV synthetics that had been certified by the manufacturer for use in those engines. Castrol Syntec not only is Group III, but not certified for use in those engines.

I hate to say it, but the use of Group III "synthetics" needs to be rated differently somehow. Not only are these motor oils petroleum, but being petroleum they must employ lots of VI additives for for the "W" or winter grade specs.

Before anyone jumps my case, I realize that Mobil 1 isn't the only Group IV based synthetic. It is the only major oil company synthetic to still be Group IV. I realize that other smaller companies like AMSOIL and Redline use the Group IV base oils. But the 4 motor oils made by AMSOIL with the "XL-7500" label are Group III based motor oils which is why they have the shorter oil drain and cheaper price. See how confusing this can be?"

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/950311/2

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gmak

· #18 · Aug 3, 2017

Wait. Could you say that again? SO is Liquid-Moly 10W60 a IV or a III?

ticat928 said:
There was a false advertising claim against Castrol that was successfully defended:

"One thing people forget is that after the ruling that Castrol was not out of bounds calling Group III base oils "synthetic" every major oil company switched their base stock to the more profitable Group III. That is except for Mobil 1. Maybe Mobil refused to accept the ruling. No matter. What followed was a disaster for the average consumer especially those driving German cars still under warranty. Here's why:

People driving Germain cars, BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagen, were required to use certain spec oils to remain under the manufacturer's warranty. These same owners noticed the name "Castrol Synthetic" on the expensive oil the Dealer was installing and many decided to save money and have Castrol Syntec installed at a local lube center or maybe did it themselves at home. What was worse, some of these cars had extended oil drain intervals up to 20,000 miles. What followed was a lot of sludging and engine damage with a lot of people being told their warranty was voided. The reason there was so much confusion is the motor oil sold at the Dealership service department were European Group IV synthetics that had been certified by the manufacturer for use in those engines. Castrol Syntec not only is Group III, but not certified for use in those engines.

I hate to say it, but the use of Group III "synthetics" needs to be rated differently somehow. Not only are these motor oils petroleum, but being petroleum they must employ lots of VI additives for for the "W" or winter grade specs.

Before anyone jumps my case, I realize that Mobil 1 isn't the only Group IV based synthetic. It is the only major oil company synthetic to still be Group IV. I realize that other smaller companies like AMSOIL and Redline use the Group IV base oils. But the 4 motor oils made by AMSOIL with the "XL-7500" label are Group III based motor oils which is why they have the shorter oil drain and cheaper price. See how confusing this can be?"

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/950311/2

ticat928

· #19 · Aug 3, 2017

gmak said:
Wait. Could you say that again? SO is Liquid-Moly 10W60 a IV or a III?

Yes European spec 10w-60 oils typically are group 4 or 5

LM and shell are reasonably priced.
Motul is more expensive but sells a group 5

5 Liter Shell Helix Ultra RACING 10W60 Motoröl 10W-60 VW , Fiat 9.55535-H3 | eBay

ticat928

· #20 · Aug 3, 2017

gmak said:
Wait. Could you say that again? SO is Liquid-Moly 10W60 a IV or a III?

Actually the TWS should also be able to handle fuel dilution to some degree.

The higher volatility of Group 3 means the lighter Dino Oil factions will evaporate first leaving the thicker base stock behind.

Just make sure to change oil prior to winter, sludgy thickened Group 3 oils will not flow nearly as well as new spec in cold temps.
I imagine the -36 degree pour point would end up being way higher for TWS that has seen hard use.

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