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Discussion Starter #1
Well, I've read hundreds of post here about oil for the M5... but hardly a word about how well those oils really perform.

I thought it would be helpful to see how MY oil is performing in MY car based on MY driving- so I just had a Used Oil Analysis done by Blackstone Labs. I figured that any signs of wear, oil viscosity breakdown, or contaminants would help in fine tuning my choices (oil, viscosity, change interval, etc).

How come this isn't popular here? For $20 ($35 for a custom consult) you can find out quite a lot on what's going on...

Anybody else doing UOAs on their M (or other cars)?

I've been using BMW's 5w30 Synthetic (per bmws reccomendation for my 2003) but changed it after 7500 miles. I'll continue with this interval for now. The ability of the oil to tolerate additional acid breakdown had dropped considerably by this point.

WHile I am at it, anybody hear any pros or cons on "Auto-RX" or "Lube Control" products?

Ard
 

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Ard: I use Blackstone Labs for regular analysis of the aviation motor oil in my Cessna T210. They are generally considered the best lab for aviation oil analysis. Their personalized reports are invaluable! I've attached a sample aviation oil report so that you can see their comments. The automotive report is similar.

I've often wondered why oil analysis isn't more common in the high-end automotive world. I send an oil sample from the plane to Blackstone at every oil change (40 hours or 4 months, whichever comes first). But I hardly ever hear of a BMW owner taking advantage of oil analysis.

Labs like Blackstone can tell you a lot about what's happening inside your engine in terms of wear and corrosion. And about whether the oil is doing its job and/or getting changed often enough. I may begin sending a sample in periodically just to see what Blackstone has to say about my M5 engine.

Oil analysis can also warn of impending catastrophic engine failure or other serious problems. It's almost always a good idea.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I just got my report back- very comprehensive. I really think repeated analysis history over the course of every oil change will help you optimize intervals and spot problems.

Like I said, only $20. Sent the sample on Sat, report returned on Wednesday.

Given the level of scrutiny this board applies to every aspect of M ownership, I'm surprised there isn't more discussion on what these engines do to oil- based on UOAs.

I've heard of 4 or 5 folks here doing it- maybe we'll see more in the future.

A
 

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This is a great idea! I would think about using this service for the race car first, since we have had a number of engine failures due to poor value jobs. Also, I understand that this S62 engine likes 5w30 but has anyone tried Royal Purple oil in it. I have heard great things about that brand, and I will be moving to it as soon as the e30 engine goes about 2K miles. For $20 it's a no brainer. What is the sample size necessary? Also, what effect does the oil weight have on the VANOS timing and duration? Is there a noticable performance difference between the lighter and heavier weights?

Thanks for the info!
 

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Royal Purple is currently the best engine oil on the market for our cars......many

people are afraid to use it because of warranty issues....Several M mechanics at

my dealer swear by it....Synerlec a component of Royal Purple oil has 3-4 times the oil

film strength of Castrol 10W60......

if our clutches were poorly designed for our cars, would you trust the factory oil?

I personally use RP 20W50 in South Florida with 5000 miles interval
 

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Discussion Starter #6
marcvip said:
Royal Purple is currently the best engine oil on the market for our cars......many

people are afraid to use it because of warranty issues....Several M mechanics at

my dealer swear by it....Synerlec a component of Royal Purple oil has 3-4 times the oil

film strength of Castrol 10W60......



if our clutches were poorly designed for our cars, would you trust the factory oil?

I personally use RP 20W50 in South Florida with 5000 miles interval
And what do you base this statement on?

Since the your clutch failed the oil must be no good?!?!

By "our cars" that must mean there have been AT LEAST two M5s in which you used factory in one and Royal Purple in the other, and did Oil Analysis every 5k miles to PROVE Royal Purple gave lower wear components AND higher shear life.

Right?

Or is it all marketing hyperbole and posting excitement.

In a poll done here, less than 3% used RP in their engines. A search on RP brings up much on tranny use, nothing on engine use.

I'm trying to bring a reasoned approach to oil selection for precisely this reason...Price, Hype... forget that- how does it lubricate?

Sorry, in a bad mood. :(

Ard

PS And I NEVER trust a BMW mechanic for advice.
 

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I had used blackstone once for an oil analysys for an e34 that I had that was loosing coolant, and i was curious to see if there was any finding it's way into the coolant (it wasn't according to the report...). I might try it again, it was informative, and gave some support to bmw's SI indicator. My 92 525iT had 104k on it, using mobil 1 15w50 which had done about 9k miles at the time of analysis. The report showed the oil still fell within normal spec and was ok for continued use! I still wonder where that coolant was going though.
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I'd have to characterize those web pages as sales brochures- not research sources....

I am using BMW recommended oil, but chaning it 4x faster, until I collect enough objective, unbiased data to make a change. Oh, and based on the $20 analysis I did, I know for a fact there is no wear issue with this motor- AND the oil viscosity is still at the top end of spec.

There is so much disagreement on the adequacy of the BMW oils that I thought UOA would be an excellent way to evaluate it's suitability in an M5 motor..

Having said that, the reading I've done on RP shows a few things:

Their motor oils did not stand up very well- they tended to shear down quickly. However it appears that may have been from the older versions. Their top level racing oils are reportedlyt excellent, however the jury is still out on their longevity. 5k-7k intervals perhaps?

RP make excellent tranny products, by reading multiple sites and non-RP sources.

The newer, top line racing oils have been performing well with decent change intervals based on posters who do regular analysis. But my sense is that they are not seeing HP increases and mileage benefits. Just OK high performance oils.

Finally, it is dangerous to trade off HP gains in oil. ANY ENGINE will produce more HP with thinner oil. Period. Drag racers aren't looking for 100k miles from their engines. When you have a field of racers all with the same displacement and retrictions, it is worth gaining 2% via oil if it costs the motor after the race.

Anyway, sorry to sidetrack-

Anyone want to start discussing specifics on UOAs, maybe I'll post the analysis just for the heck of it.

Ard

PS http://www.performanceoilnews.com/oils_against_oils.shtml
and
www.bobistheoilguy.com for all you ever wanted to know about oil
 

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Ard, please do post your analysis if it's not too much trouble. I've been thinking about sending my oil out, but have not gotten around to it. I'd be interesting to compare your numbers w/ a 7500 mile iinterval and mine at a 3000 mile interval.

I am sure I am changing much more often than needed. Part of it is an old school mentality, and the other part laziness (is it's easy to compute the next interval with the big number being divisable by 3.). :)
 

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Mention Royal Purple® to participants in AHDRA, AMA, AMRA as well as drivers in USAC, NASCAR, SCCA and other sanctioning bodies, and they will tell you that Royal Purple® lubricants are the difference between a podium finish and a busted motor
That leaves the door open for a great comment.

they are the #1 Racing/Drag racing oil on the market
The #1 motor oils in racing are Mobil1/Castrol hands down.
 

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So how much oil do you need to send and how do you package it, etc.? I was thinking of an overly optimistic (so it seems) 10K mile change, which for me will be once/year and covered by my service agreement. Now I'm not so sure...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
you go to either:

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html

They send you a kit: an outer shipper, inner sample container (4 oz) and a sample slip and bag. Take 4oz of the used oil (it should NOT be the first or last out of the drain) and put it in the inner container. Bag it, fill out the slip, put that in the outer shipper, slap $1.52 postage on it, send it off. I got a pdf of the results the same day they received the sample.

You might want to download their letter from the USPS in case you post office is being postal... oil is not a hazardous material.

You can also sample it out of the dip stick with a 'sucker', and I'd bet you can get 4 oz out of the filter housing.

Ard

PS 6 spd... not sure of the context of those quotes- did I miss something?
 

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Ard, no the first was from the link at RP and the second was Marc's statement.:blink:
 

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6spd, Royal Purple Racing 21 is used in NASCAR and late model dirt car teams, USAC, WoO, NHRA, IHRA and many other sanctions of car and motorcycle engines.

As far as #1 Drag Racing Oil ..yes, #1(not best selling) racing oil ..debatable since Castrol and Mobil have much better marketing campaigns

Try Mazola 0w0 it has a good flash point cherrsagai
 

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In my race car I used Red Line. In my street cars I use Mobil 1. In my soon to be M5 I will use??????

Now my race motor is good for 50 hours of use. Then it needs to be re-ringed and have the bearings checked. After another 50 hours it needs to be re-built.

Race engines are built to much looser tolerances than street motors. Loose=fast. They only need to last the race and thats it. So the oil only needs to perform for that amount of time. It may be overkill but I will change my oil after every race weekend and cut the filter open and see what is what. If you saw what the oil looks like after a race weekend you would be surprised. It is pretty dirty. Looks like it has about 2k on it after 5 session on the track.

RP may be the #1 oil in racing but I want the #1 oil for my street car. That was developed with that as the end result.

Oil analysis is a great way to know what is going on in the engine and if the oil is performing well. I would rely on this data first and foremost.

Jordan
 

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Point well taken.....I drive my race and street cars like a race car....if someone

has the time to perform oil analysis on the top oils I would appreciate the

results.

my opinion with no oil analysis; I still think RP41 and RP51 are the best oils for

our cars depending on the external temperatures since they are not limited by

API pollution certifications..
 

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marcvip said:
Point well taken.....I drive my race and street cars like a race car....
How is that at all possible?? You mean to tell me that you are at 6-7K RPM all the time in your street car?? Thats bullshit my friend. I am sure you drive hard on the street but to say you drive your street car like it is a race car is foolish.

Please clarify what you mean.

Repectfuly,

Jordan
 

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marcvip said:
....they are the #1 Racing/Drag racing oil on the market due to their millions invested in R&D....Royal Purple Racing 21 is used in NASCAR and late model dirt car teams, USAC, WoO, NHRA, IHRA and many other sanctions of car and motorcycle engines.
Good racing oil does not make a suitable street oil unless:

1) you rebuild your motor every season
2) you change your oil every weekend
3) you're looking for fractional HP gains

Race-optimized oils contain minimal viscosity stabilizers, dispersants and detergents because they are designed to be drained in under 1K mi. Most racers drain every race. As such, they quickly break down & are completely inappropriate for extended service interval street use.

There are a few fully-certified street oils being promoted as "race-bred" or "race-capable" & these are obviously suitable for street.

Royal Purple's R&D budget is quite small compared to the street lubricant market leaders. Their street lubricants are fully certified for use in street cars, so I have nothing against them. I can't say the same for Red Line.
 
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