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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
OK; so after digesting hundreds of posts here, I went armed to Foreign Motors West (Natick Mass) with the intention of purchasing BMW specific, "long life", 5W-30 full synthetic, possessing the knowledge that all 2000 M5s manufactured "after" 7/00 employ this whereas "prior", it's 10W-60. Mine's a 8/00 build.

All went well until I spoke with Mr. parts guy who said, "nope" - All M3s and ALL M5s take 10W-60 ( very confidently might I add ).
I countered with a resounding "nope" (right back at cha) & maintained that "post" 7/00 M5s indeed require 5W-30.

Strangely, he backed down & suggested that I was right. (?)… which struck me as odd due to the fact that he was so forthright while flip-flopping on his original statement (confused Kerry supporter perhaps?)… :confused:

Moral of the story? Who knows…. However, I'm beginning to feel that the forum collectorate possess far more knowledge than most of the individuals we typically encounter @ the dealerships! More; how scary a proposition could the incorrect application here be for uninformed consumer?
Anyone else fell similarly? Do these service reps read their tech bulletins?

An aside… if my next series of posts revolve around thrown rod bearings, we'll then know who's truly "right" concerning oil types eh'? hmmm
 

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Of course this is the never ending oil debate. I have been using 5-30W oil from the very beginning in my MY01, with a 8000RPM level red line and no problems or unusual oil consumption. Of course I do not go to that very high RPM level too often. I had a MY00 that required the 10-60W oil, but it had the earlier designed rings. Overall I have not heard of a single failure due to strictly to the 5-30W oil.

Mark
 

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Not to start up this debate again, but the later cars stickered for 5w-30 don't "require" that oil. It is more appropriate to say that they "can use" 5w-30 or that 5w-30 is "recommended." Saying that 5w-30 is "required" suggests that it would be improper to go to 10w-60 oil. I don't think anyone has ever suggested it would be wrong to use 10w-60 in a car with a 5w-30 sticker under the hood. To prevent bearing failures at high temps, 10w-60 might actually be a good idea even if your ring design can tolerate 5w-30. cherrsagai
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
OK, so more confusion

Need4Spd said:
Not to start up this debate again, but the later cars stickered for 5w-30 don't "require" that oil. It is more appropriate to say that they "can use" 5w-30 or that 5w-30 is "recommended." Saying that 5w-30 is "required" suggests that it would be improper to go to 10w-60 oil. I don't think anyone has ever suggested it would be wrong to use 10w-60 in a car with a 5w-30 sticker under the hood. To prevent bearing failures at high temps, 10w-60 might actually be a good idea even if your ring design can tolerate 5w-30. cherrsagai
Good point; 10w-60 for warmer weather applications then...
But then there's "THIS" from the E34 board & Simon:

I got this off www.e30zone.co.uk where it was posted by a guy who is a large supplier of engine oils in the UK.

Interesting reading I thought...

I have seen a BMW document issue (10/2004) dated 01.11.04 concerning the correct oils for use in BMW M3/M5 cars.

It states the following:

BMW Longlife 01 oils to be used in all M series engines except

M43/CNG
S54
S62/E39 (up to 02/2000)

Where Castrol 10w-60 is recommended.

BMW Longlife 01 Oils are of the following viscosities/specifications:

LL01 SAE 0w-30, 0w-40, 5w-30, 5w-40 ACEA A3/B3, API SJ/SL/CD ECII

I have a list of approved oils.

There is also a Technical Bulletin to Dealers dated 03/11/2004 concerning ALL M5's S62/E39

from 02/2000 onwards use 0w-30, 0w-40, 5w-30 or 5w-40 BMW Longlife Approved Oils

up to 02/2000 use Castrol 10w-60

This is stated very clearly and is the definative answer from BMW, your Dealer should be aware of these recommendations.

Cheers
Simon
 

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My 06/00 build indicated 10W/60 all over the place. Thats all I use.
 

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A couple months ago I looked over the paperwork from the dealer for an oil change I had a few months before that, and noticed that they had used 5W30. I took the car in and insisted that they change the oil to 10W60, and they came back to me with paperwork from BMW that indicated that 5W30 was the recommended oil from 03/00 on, and my car was built in 03/00 (going by memory, I could be off by a month). I said that everything I heard about this car was that model year 00 required 10W60 and a lot of M5 owners used that even in their newer cars, and I wanted to play it safe with such an expensive engine. Then they looked under the hood and saw the 10W60 sticker, and said that the paperwork from BMW indicated that the stickers were not changed over for a few months after the oil requirement changed, so the sticker was not consistent with the engine, but they gave me the benefit of the doubt and went ahead and changed the oil to 10W60 free of charge anyway. The situation with the changeover mid-year and the inconsistent stickers seems to have created a lot of confusion. From now on I intend to use 10W60 even if it's not strictly necessary, since it can only help (with lubrication that is, I suppose thicker oil may cost a couple HP).

- Dave
 

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jjc1843 said:
My 06/00 build indicated 10W/60 all over the place. Thats all I use.
Interesting, my 6/00 build M5 had 5.30 sticker under the hood, until i peeled it off and pasted a 10.60 sticker in it's place!
Mike
 

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Once upon a time I had read or was told that you should not switch oil viscosity -or if you do- that you should run the engine & change the oil again because even a small mixture of different viscocity oils can cause the oil to thermally "break-down".

Same with switching brands of oils because slight chemical differences in additives can cause an earlier "oil viscocity break down".

Can anyone debunk or elaborate? I'm still waiting for the detailed records from the dealer who sold me my M5 last weekend to see which oil they had been using.

Paul
 

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Since 5w30 and 10w60 are both recommended our engine. How about 10w40? Woudn't that be a good compromise? Any comments?
 

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pkarmouche said:
Once upon a time I had read or was told that you should not switch oil viscosity -or if you do- that you should run the engine & change the oil again because even a small mixture of different viscocity oils can cause the oil to thermally "break-down".

Same with switching brands of oils because slight chemical differences in additives can cause an earlier "oil viscocity break down".

Can anyone debunk or elaborate? I'm still waiting for the detailed records from the dealer who sold me my M5 last weekend to see which oil they had been using.

Paul
Well this is true to some extent, but not if you drain the engine from oil as you normally do when changing oil. This might happen if you fill up in your existing oil with a different grade or quality oil. But the few droplets that stay in don't do any harm even if you change to a different kind of oil.

And even if you fill up with a different make of oil, if it is the same classification as the original it will not do harm.



10W60 is the one to use.


:cheers:
 

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dmz said:
Since 5w30 and 10w60 are both recommended our engine. How about 10w40? Woudn't that be a good compromise? Any comments?


I see no point in putting 10w40.

You all probably know this, but put simply in 10w60 "10" stands for the oils cold qualities and the 60 for the warm capabilities.

So putting 10w40 will mean the oil is just as thick, but don't have the same warm capabilities...

10w60 is a extremely good oil, the cold morning starts are ok, it's good down to -20celsius...

But it is true it has not got the long-life oil capabilities of the 5w30 for example.
 

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dmz said:
Since 5w30 and 10w60 are both recommended our engine. How about 10w40? Woudn't that be a good compromise? Any comments?
Hold on here a second.

The Castrol brand BMW specs for thier M series is a special formulation. It has specific properties; the owners manual is VERY specific regarding using only the reccomended types. Using other brands could void your warranty.
 

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jjc1843 said:
Hold on here a second.

The Castrol brand BMW specs for thier M series is a special formulation. It has specific properties; the owners manual is VERY specific regarding using only the reccomended types. Using other brands could void your warranty.

BMW using castrol is fairly simple, It says Castrol on Montoyas car:) BMW has a long co-operation with Castrol, it could just as well have been Mobil.

I'm sure BMW won't mind if you use a similar oil, that fulfills the same quality classifications as the castrol version altough it's not castrol, and differing from the viscosity of the recommended oil, might not be a problem, besides excess oil use. If the car is driven extremely hard a 5w30 oil might be pushed beyond it's capabilities, but even this is unlikely. At least in the short run, but the long run is probably a different matter.

But why differ from what BMW recommends? I use Castrol 10w60, it's more expensive, but what the hell. Why bend the envelope? At BMW in Finland, they recommend 10w60 for all the M5 E39's...


:M5launch:
 

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I've been using 5-30 in my MY '03. It's got 5-30 stickers on it, and that's all I've ever used.

If it blows up from oil starvation or some other oil related issue, I won't have to explain why I've been putting some other weight oil in it.

:cheers:

P.S. are we done with oil threads yet? :confused3

P.S.S. And where's LSCMAN? I think maybe this new oil thread gave him a heart attack... :hihi:
 

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Well, that is what all manufacturer say about their own brand of oil. That's marketing for you. But I don't think BMW can legally void the warranty if you use another brand as long as the oil has the same recommended spec. A lot of us uses Mobile 1 5w30 and don't think anyone has their warranty voided.



jjc1843 said:
Hold on here a second.

The Castrol brand BMW specs for thier M series is a special formulation. It has specific properties; the owners manual is VERY specific regarding using only the reccomended types. Using other brands could void your warranty.
 

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dmz said:
Well, that is what all manufacturer say about their own brand of oil. That's marketing for you. But I don't think BMW can legally void the warranty if you use another brand as long as the oil has the same recommended spec. A lot of us uses Mobile 1 5w30 and don't think anyone has their warranty voided.

Exactly my point. The classifications of other oil makes are sometimes even higher than the Castrols that BMW recommends, and also here is a word to remember: BMW "recommends Castrol Oils".

:byebye:

Oil thread?
-What oil thread? :hihi:

:cheers:
 

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dmz said:
Well, that is what all manufacturer say about their own brand of oil. That's marketing for you. But I don't think BMW can legally void the warranty if you use another brand as long as the oil has the same recommended spec. A lot of us uses Mobile 1 5w30 and don't think anyone has their warranty voided.
Lets see now.

My Service and Warranty Information leaflet states on page 4:

For the M5, BMW has approved only:
Castrol Formula RS 10W-60 Synthetic Oil
(BMW part number 07 51 0 009 420)

From the 2000 M5 owners manual:

Specified engine oils
The quality of the engine oil is extremely
important for the function and service
life of an engine. Based on extensive
testing, BMW recommends only certain
types of engine oil.
Approved are:
> Castrol Formula RS SAE 10W60
> Veedol Synthetic Z SAE 10W60
If you are unable to obtain one of these
oils, you may use small volumes of synthetic
oil for topping up between oil
changes. Only use oils with the specification
API SH or higher.
Ask your BMW center for details
concerning the specific "BMW
High Performance Synthetic Oil" or
"special oils" which are suitable for
topping up.


From Bulletin SBS1996-110796138_A9:

The trade name of the Castrol oil has been changed:
old: "Castrol Formula RS Racing Syntec SAE 10W-60"
new: "Castrol TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60"
Castrol will continue to market an engine oil under the old trade name which has not been approved by BMW


Now between the Warranty manual and owners manual the word difference is "aproved" and "recommended".

Granted, if the oil specs are the same, the warranty is clearly OK. but I am pretty sure that the Castrol has some properties associated with it, that are not necessarily in other synthetics. Could be wrong here.

I use the 10W-60 because from what I understand there was a change to the piston ring design that allowed newer production models to use the 5W-30 weight oil. If Mobil 1 is on the approved BMW list, thats great. But I am sure the manuals read specifically approved types only.

Again, your individual dealer may take exception if the wrong oil is in the engine at the time of trouble, and for a $20K replacement, I would be sure they will check it.

Happy Motoring all
 

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jjc1843 said:
Lets see now.

My Service and Warranty Information leaflet states on page 4:

For the M5, BMW has approved only:
Castrol Formula RS 10W-60 Synthetic Oil
(BMW part number 07 51 0 009 420)

From the 2000 M5 owners manual:

Specified engine oils
The quality of the engine oil is extremely
important for the function and service
life of an engine. Based on extensive
testing, BMW recommends only certain
types of engine oil.
Approved are:
> Castrol Formula RS SAE 10W60
> Veedol Synthetic Z SAE 10W60
If you are unable to obtain one of these
oils, you may use small volumes of synthetic
oil for topping up between oil
changes. Only use oils with the specification
API SH or higher.
Ask your BMW center for details
concerning the specific "BMW
High Performance Synthetic Oil" or
"special oils" which are suitable for
topping up.


From Bulletin SBS1996-110796138_A9:

The trade name of the Castrol oil has been changed:
old: "Castrol Formula RS Racing Syntec SAE 10W-60"
new: "Castrol TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60"
Castrol will continue to market an engine oil under the old trade name which has not been approved by BMW


Now between the Warranty manual and owners manual the word difference is "aproved" and "recommended".

Granted, if the oil specs are the same, the warranty is clearly OK. but I am pretty sure that the Castrol has some properties associated with it, that are not necessarily in other synthetics. Could be wrong here.

I use the 10W-60 because from what I understand there was a change to the piston ring design that allowed newer production models to use the 5W-30 weight oil. If Mobil 1 is on the approved BMW list, thats great. But I am sure the manuals read specifically approved types only.

Again, your individual dealer may take exception if the wrong oil is in the engine at the time of trouble, and for a $20K replacement, I would be sure they will check it.

Happy Motoring all

After the API SH there are still Class API SJ and API SL.

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/API.html
 
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