BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
907 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am number one on several E60 M5 lists. I will buy the car. But, I find that I am just not as excited or have the anticipation level that I had for the E39 M5.

Is it because the E39 is so satisfying?
I'm apprehensive about the SMG only option?
The interior?
Some of the exterior cues?
I had a lobotomy?

MJ
'00, '01, '02, '03 (current)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
766 Posts
Don't feel bad, you're not alone. Since none of us have driven it, it doesn;t seem to be the slam dunk that the e39 was/is. Seeing it in person, sitting in it, and driving it will tell. Also think we have to give the SMG more than a 20 minute drive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
816 Posts
SMG III is the only major concern, or at least the no.1 concern I have. But I do intend to drive it; to be fair, for at least half a year to get to know it. And that's when I know how I really would feel about it. (I'm getting the M6, which has the same thing).
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
8,806 Posts
I'd say just wait for the first test drives from European members to flood in. Then you'll be raring to have a go yourself
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
10,698 Posts
Aside from the usual criticism (looks, SMG only, idrive), I think these new BMWs are a more intellectual appeal. You don't just get in and drive. You've got to learn SMG, learn idrive, learn to like the styling- read the Bangle interviews, etc. The old ones were: You knew the styling (liked it or not), you knew how to change radio stations, and you knew how to change gears). Give it time, this one might get under your skin, but I think there are some of us who will say that its not even the engine, if they could just take the steering out of the new M5 and slap it in the E39 they'd be happy. The steering in the E39 is OK, but it should be better. Thats really my one gripe on the E39. Its still good enough for me to keep it. My plan is to wait to see if they offer it with a stick shift as there is some conflicting info out there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,810 Posts
In the comparison of the excitement while waiting for the E39 M5 to arrive, keep one huge difference in mind.

What else was there?

Previous gen M5s were pretty rare to see and I don't think performed nearly as well. AMG was still a tuner and to a large extent a joke. Who was Audi? What else was there to get excited about?

Not to take anything away from the E39 M5, it was and is an amazing car, but the advancement of the segment and the addition of multiple competitors does act to change perspective. Now we have MB/AMG, Audi, Maserati, and even Caddy and Jag. Rumors of possible Porche entries. All of that acts to dull the senses to the new cars.

However, I do think that items like SMG only are definate detractors to the new car. In fact, that is the one and only hangup I personally have about the car.

I don't fully agree with Jerry on the learning curve, at least with the radio/I-Drive. The computer in the E39 is a real POS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,125 Posts
The more I think about it, the more SMG is the killer for me.

I am getting a V-10 Touareg because of the 503 lbs ft of torque for trailer pulling. So I will have a luxury SUV that I can carry 5 people in.

That leaves me many options. Keep my M5, get another sports car, or ?

On edit: 553 lbs ft of torque
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
10,698 Posts
vndkshn,
You are completely right. As for idrive, my frustrations to the side for the moment, I'm just saying its another new way of doing things some one has to adjust to and they may not know how they feel about it. The learning curve I mention is really the fact that BMW has gone and changed a lot about their cars in a short time, so its a big adjustment for some people to make.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,810 Posts
Yeah, that is true Jerry. I can see how some could have issues with the bulk of changes that were made. If the E39 was the end all be all for someone, I can see how it would be impossible to improve. Fortunately for me, there are enough things that I don't like about the E39 that helps me accept the E60 more.

Dan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,356 Posts
vndkshn said:
Not to take anything away from the E39 M5, it was and is an amazing car, but the advancement of the segment and the addition of multiple competitors does act to change perspective. Now we have MB/AMG, Audi, Maserati, and even Caddy and Jag. Rumors of possible Porche entries. All of that acts to dull the senses to the new cars.
True, there were only the Jag XJR and the previous generation E55, both of which were soundly trounced by the M5 in all reviews. However, we've also recently seen several reviews that state the new M5 is a far bigger leap relative to its predecessor(s) than ever before.

It's not yet clear whether the uber-saloon club has gotten far more crowded, or whether the new M5 has transcended it and is still in a category all its own.


However, I do think that items like SMG only are definate detractors to the new car. In fact, that is the one and only hangup I personally have about the car.
Honestly, if BMW did offer a manual but it performed worse than the SMG (significantly so in some areas) because of the technological advances in SMG III, would you still get the manual? BMW is betting that you won't, or that it won't make enough of a difference even if you would to change your decision to get an SMG-only M5. Given that the vast majority of M3 buyers freely pick SMG, the SMG III is purportedly vastly better than the M3's SMG II, and larger sedan buyers are historically more desirous/tolerant of things "automatic," my bet is that BMW is completely right.

Tom (who still wants a manual on my next M convertible)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
Goes to display the variety of people that M5 ownership (E39 version anyway) attracted.

Personally, I am more wound up about this car than I was with E39. I am a technocrat at heart which is no surprise I suppose as I work in I.T. and the level of technology on display here, coupled with the incredible performance just impresses the hell out of me and makes me want it like no other car I've had on order.

I actually find iDrive easy to use and much prefer it to the dashboard clutter that you see in most other marques.

While I will miss the satisfaction of a perfectly executed (rare for me, so I enjoy them) gearchange and the tactile sensation of shifting, the pure ability and technical prowess of the SMG mostly makes up for that with me.

I expect and want this vehicle to be uncompromisingly efficient in the way it goes about what it does as that pleases and indeed excites me.

I see the M5 as a luxury sedan with massive performance and a sporting edge, not a sports vehicle. That it can be compared favourably to pure sports vehicles is a testament to the abilities of BMW as a car maker.

The fact that the E39 M5 somewhat blurs that line between luxury car/ sports car reinforces to me what a great design the E39 range was all round and what a great job M did in developing it.

For me in the end though, I have my Honda Blackbird and Caterham for raw thrills, while I want my daily driver to be efficient and competant while being a fair fun machine when the chance arises. For this, the new design is perfect for me.
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
2,823 Posts
Tom and plext said it very well. Those who criticize elements of the M5's design that are inconsistent with a "pure sports car" miss the point of the design. The M5 is not meant to be an uncompromised sports car. Rather, the appeal of the M5 for the vast majority of its target market is and always has been performance that approaches (but does not necessarily match or surpass) that of the most dedicated sports cars while offering comfort, reliability, and the ability to use and enjoy it as a daily means of transportation and of carrying passengers and luggage. As plext astutely comments, the fact that the M5 exceeds the abilities of many more dedicated sporting machines and approaches the abilities of some of the most desired sports cars that cost much more enhances the M5's appeal and separates it from most if not all other offerings. Like many others, I will use the M5 not only for joyful bursts on scenic two-lanes, but while being stuck in traffic, returning home after a long day of work, and other more mundane situations. At those times, I will appreciate the automatic features of the SMG, the comfort of the seats, and many other luxury features at which the "purists" among us scoff. I will, however, also enjoy dusting everything else on the road while pulling out of a toll booth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,810 Posts
bernhtp said:
Honestly, if BMW did offer a manual but it performed worse than the SMG (significantly so in some areas) because of the technological advances in SMG III, would you still get the manual? Given that the vast majority of M3 buyers freely pick SMG, the SMG III is purportedly vastly better than the M3's SMG II, and larger sedan buyers are historically more desirous/tolerant of things "automatic," my bet is that BMW is completely right.

Tom (who still wants a manual on my next M convertible)
Define significantly.

Funny, I just read that this is the first year that BMW expects to sell more SMG M3s than manuals. I'll find the article again to make sure I didn't misread it.

Funny, SMG in a M3 sounds perfect to me... but not in the M5.

Oh, and 5 days a week, ~48 weeks a year I drive a manual trans to work, in horrible Washington, DC metro area traffic (3rd or 4th worst in the country). I drive 40 to 60 minutes each way. I drive about 20 miles. I love driving my manuals in these conditions. It doesn't bother me at all. "Purist"? No. I just enjoy a manual much more than anything else.

I also work in IT, have no issues with i-Drive, and like 95% of the design of the car. Exterior, engine, i-Drive... I am sold. SMG? jury is still out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
816 Posts
We're gonna have a big series of discussion after 12/24 months again about this.

vndkshn makes the point "what else is there?" to keep us excited. I frankly don't get excited much about Benz, Maserati, Jaguars. OK, maybe an Audi. (I'm thinking sedan builders here).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
I think the E39 M5 was a quantum leap ahead of the E34 M5, (sorry 6-cyl purists :biggrin: ), and there were few controversial or irksome technology/design elements in the car. It was pretty much an evolution of the E34, with even more exceptional power, safety, and comfort. There is a lot of "getting used to it" in the E60, and that kind of mitigates the pleasure in the anticipation, IMO. :wroom:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,469 Posts
MJ,

Seeing your dedication for the E39 M5, it says a lot that you are not 'too excited' about the E60. I feel exactly like you. In 1998/99/2000, I couldn't read enough about the E39 M5, and was waiting with baited breath for it to come out. Right now, I have virtually NO desire to learn about the E60. There are MANY deal-breakers for me: looks (I can't stand either the exterior or the interior). The thick mid-section, high belt-line design is just not my thing. (seeing that the original 6 series, and the original Legend, were my favorite designs, you see why the E60 M5 wouldn't turn me on) I like cars with lot of glass and slim-line look. The E60 is the exact opposite. SMG only, Idrive, and the Bangle Butt all tell me NO.

I think another factor is the cars I now own. When the E39 M5 came out, I was driving a Lexus. Now with an E39 M5 and a 420 HP, 438 ft-lb RUF, I just don't see how the E60 M5 would be more desirable than either one. I'm just dumb, fat and happy with my cars now.

Bart,

Great to see you posting more these days. Do you still have your Factory5 Cobra? I followed you car-building thread closely, but never knew what the final product is. Can you post some pics and the performance specs.?

I remember one of your last posts. I was buying my SC Miata and you stated that big torque (V8 engine) was a huge factor for you. I could not agree with you more now. (RUF has 438 ft-lb for a 2,884# car) The E60 might be a V-10, but still only puts out 368 ft-lb. That'll not win me over from the E39 M5 with similar torque numbers, and a true manual.

CP
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,356 Posts
zzzzMD said:
It [the E39 M5] was pretty much an evolution of the E34, with even more exceptional power, safety, and comfort. There is a lot of "getting used to it" in the E60, and that kind of mitigates the pleasure in the anticipation, IMO.
The large difference to some takes getting used to and this mitigates the anticipatory pleasure. For others, the bigger difference and newness creates and enhances it. People have different tolerance levels and affinity for change.

Tom
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top