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Discussion Starter #1
As I generally turn off the DSC, except in rain or snow, I am always noticing the other two symbols on either side of the DSC alert. What are they. I know this is somewhat pedantic, but it is driving me nuts! hmmm
 

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kcdoyle said:
As I generally turn off the DSC, except in rain or snow, I am always noticing the other two symbols on either side of the DSC alert. What are they. I know this is somewhat pedantic, but it is driving me nuts! hmmm
Sorry I'm not answering your question - too lazy to wander out to my car and look. But, because this hasn't come up in a long time, I want to voice a strong concern over your running with DSC off by default. Several board members have reported experiencing emergency situations in which DSC has saved their bacon.

Unless you've been in a severe emergency avoidance maneuver, most M5 owners have never felt what it is like to have DSC straighten the car out after a violent swerve in one direction, then the other (it is always the second one that gets you.) I have, and it is absolutely incredible, amazing, miraculous.

I LOVE how well the M5 is balanced. I love kicking the tail out in corners and power sliding. I hate how much DSC intervenes when the only problem is straight-line wheel spin. So I DO turn it off when I am intentionally driving hard under known conditions such as on the track. But when I'm done, for example, taking that up-hill hard right hander, or when I settle into my cruise on the freeway, I TURN IT BACK ON.

But I truly believe turning it off by default is just plain silly. DSC has better reflexes, pays attention 100% of the time, and can do things to arrest an impending loss of control that you cannot do yourself, such as brake the front left and rear right wheel. Why would you rob yourself, your passengers, or the "other guy" of such a feature?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Well-


Since you put it THAT way...perhaps I will rethink my position. Although I have braked the front left and right rear similtaneously. You have to put your left big toe on the top left of the brake pedal AND your right big toe on the bottom of the brake pedal. ;) Seriously though, I do appreciate the reminder...I suspect my reflexes aren't as quick as I think they be.

KCD

greg said:
Sorry I'm not answering your question - too lazy to wander out to my car and look. But, because this hasn't come up in a long time, I want to voice a strong concern over your running with DSC off by default. Several board members have reported experiencing emergency situations in which DSC has saved their bacon.

Unless you've been in a severe emergency avoidance maneuver, most M5 owners have never felt what it is like to have DSC straighten the car out after a violent swerve in one direction, then the other (it is always the second one that gets you.) I have, and it is absolutely incredible, amazing, miraculous.

I LOVE how well the M5 is balanced. I love kicking the tail out in corners and power sliding. I hate how much DSC intervenes when the only problem is straight-line wheel spin. So I DO turn it off when I am intentionally driving hard under known conditions such as on the track. But when I'm done, for example, taking that up-hill hard right hander, or when I settle into my cruise on the freeway, I TURN IT BACK ON.

But I truly believe turning it off by default is just plain silly. DSC has better reflexes, pays attention 100% of the time, and can do things to arrest an impending loss of control that you cannot do yourself, such as brake the front left and rear right wheel. Why would you rob yourself, your passengers, or the "other guy" of such a feature?
 

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greg said:
. I hate how much DSC intervenes when the only problem is straight-line wheel spin.

DSC has better reflexes, pays attention 100% of the time, and can do things to arrest an impending loss of control that you cannot do yourself, such as brake the front left and rear right wheel. Why would you rob yourself, your passengers, or the "other guy" of such a feature?
I agree, and I generally leave it on for the very reasons you stated. The M5 is so strong the tail can snap around very quickly. I just wish some of the computer gurus could figure out how to cut intervention by about 50% and I think I would never have to turn it off for the street.
As to the icons, if someone has access to a 540 or 525 manual, (US or otherwise), it might show what the icons are for.
Regards,
Jerry
 

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gsfent,
the new Ferrari F430 has multiple settings for DSC. a newbie setting, medium, and a race setting where it intervenes very little. you might like that. :)

as far as the M5 goes, i'd like to leave mine on, but wish to have sport mode on by default. any drawbacks on using sport mode? it really is jeckle and hyde.
 

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greg said:
Sorry I'm not answering your question - too lazy to wander out to my car and look. But, because this hasn't come up in a long time, I want to voice a strong concern over your running with DSC off by default. Several board members have reported experiencing emergency situations in which DSC has saved their bacon.

Unless you've been in a severe emergency avoidance maneuver, most M5 owners have never felt what it is like to have DSC straighten the car out after a violent swerve in one direction, then the other (it is always the second one that gets you.) I have, and it is absolutely incredible, amazing, miraculous.

I LOVE how well the M5 is balanced. I love kicking the tail out in corners and power sliding. I hate how much DSC intervenes when the only problem is straight-line wheel spin. So I DO turn it off when I am intentionally driving hard under known conditions such as on the track. But when I'm done, for example, taking that up-hill hard right hander, or when I settle into my cruise on the freeway, I TURN IT BACK ON.

But I truly believe turning it off by default is just plain silly. DSC has better reflexes, pays attention 100% of the time, and can do things to arrest an impending loss of control that you cannot do yourself, such as brake the front left and rear right wheel. Why would you rob yourself, your passengers, or the "other guy" of such a feature?
Greg:

I was really surprised when I read your post. Surprised because I can't remember ever reading one of your post that I didn't agree with. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I disagree with what you've written, it's just that I turn off my DSC every time I drive my car - unless the road is very slick (ice/snow). The reason I turn the DSC off is because I can't seem to drive my car without constantly engaging it. It's like being in a rodeo with that stinking system on. It bucks and bounces, shucks and stutters. I hate it.

Even more important, I've found DSC to be dangerous in it's own way, and I'm sure you have, too. Just think back to a situation where you've needed to accelerate from a stop, turning right onto two lanes of one-way traffic, and just as you've pulled out someone has changed into your lane. Remember that helpless feeling as the DSC coughs and chokes and your 400HP M5 sputters you up to 60MPH in what seems like half a lifetime?

When I drive with the DSC off I experience a little bit of wheel spin and often have to give a twitch to the steering wheel or lift of the gas pedal a bit to correct but I'm not often sliding the car around in big four wheel drifts (though I can, all day long, if you're buying the tires). 57,000 miles (including track work) and I've never spun the car. Yes, you're right, there are things the DSC can do better than me but in every day driving there are many more things that I do much better - over and over again - than the DSC does.

One last thought - with your lifetime of driving instincts, is it typical that you would overcorrect enough to engage your DSC in an emergency situation or would your instincts not alow you to throw the car around that way? (Think of your first experience with ABS) (What was that situation that you engaged DSC?)

I very much respect you Greg and I believe your advice is correct to the majority of drivers but I hope you can hear me out on this one.

Most Sincerely,

Derek
 

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SpiderSense said:
gsfent,
the new Ferrari F430 has multiple settings for DSC. a newbie setting, medium, and a race setting where it intervenes very little. you might like that. :)

as far as the M5 goes, i'd like to leave mine on, but wish to have sport mode on by default. any drawbacks on using sport mode? it really is jeckle and hyde.

I know, the settings are on the wheel. GM also allows most of the traction control nannies to be turned off and still save you if you go too far (Competition mode I believe). E60 M5 will have something similar. However, if I have to get the Ferrari for DSC adjustablilty, where do I put my other 3 passengers??? :1:
I drove without sport mode on before headers. Seemed harder to get a smooth shift. Don't know why, but the car feels more together now with sport on. Smoother shifts. Steering is a little heavier. Can't see any real drawbacks as long as you are used to how the car feels with sport mode on/off.
Regards,
Jerry
 

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Suretyagent said:
...I've never spun the car.
Never spun the car? You're not driving hard enough :hihi:

When I first got my M5, I drove with DSC "on" and Sport "off", just like the text above my avatar told me to. After reading many posts on this board, I joined the "two finger salute" group and disabled DSC every time I got in the car.

Last year, when I went to the M5DE, I really got to test the M5's (and my) limits. I spun the car...several times. I also got a good feeling of what DSC can do for you in a variety of situations. Since then, I have almost always left DSC on when I drive. The only time I turn it off is when I'm driving hard and don't want it to correct anything for me. I have not found it to be invasive for the most part. There are times when I think it's a bit conservative, but maybe that's just me.

On Topic: I have no idea what the lites on either side are. I'll try to remember to look this weekend and get back.

:cheers:
 

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First off, in general-purpose daily use there's not much benefit to turning the DSC off. The levels at which one ought to be into the DSC are pretty much beyond what one should be doing on public roads (most of the time, at least.)

That said, I and a whole lot of others survived lots of years driving RWD hardware that did not have anything resembling DSC, hardware that by and large wasn't nearly as well-behaved as the M5 is under even the worst of conditions (snow, slush, mush, and wet pine needles aside.)

I'd just note that in my personal experience the time you most want DSC (snow, slush, mush, and wet pine needles aside, under which conditions an RWD car with fat rear tires and a big torque curve can be a complete handful without at least traction control) is under braking.
 

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I can see the symbols next to the DSC indicator, but no discussion in the manual...

Almost looks like a 'following car' indicator on the left, and a 'something ahead' on the right...

On another note, did anyone note the following quote in the owners manual: "The laws fo physics cannot be repealed, even with DSC"

I liked seeing that ...

A
 

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M-Fünf said:
Never spun the car? You're not driving hard enough :hihi:

Last year, when I went to the M5DE, I really got to test the M5's (and my) limits. I spun the car...several times. I also got a good feeling of what DSC can do for you in a variety of situations. Since then, I have almost always left DSC on when I drive. The only time I turn it off is when I'm driving hard and don't want it to correct anything for me. I have not found it to be invasive for the most part. There are times when I think it's a bit conservative, but maybe that's just me.

:cheers:
M-Funf:

I said, "I've never spun my car", not, "I've never spun an M5". Believe me, I'm driving hard enough - if you have any doubts, look me up next time you're in the area and I'll take you for a ride.

And I've been to school, too. The last M school I was at was the 2 day advanced course. In the competive timed event I was beat only by Boris Said.

Derek
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well Dambit you guys...11 posts and I still don't know what the hell the mystery lights are. My thoughts on DSC...I'm from a state that voted for less interference, whether it be from government or DSC. Personal responsibility. Unless of course it's someone else's fault!!

KCD
 

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JEM said:
First off, in general-purpose daily use there's not much benefit to turning the DSC off. The levels at which one ought to be into the DSC are pretty much beyond what one should be doing on public roads (most of the time, at least.)

[/i].
I can't believe that my (mostly stock) M5 is either that much stronger than yours or that my DSC is that more sensitive, but I can't go full throttle in first gear under many conditions, and I can't shift into second near redline with full throttle, without my DSC cutting in. If the road is wet the shift to third gets DSC, too. (I've even seen the DSC working at speeds in excess of 100mph in forth gear.) You're not saying we shouldn't be using full throttle in daily driving, are you?


Derek
 

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Suretyagent said:
I can't believe that my (mostly stock) M5 is either that much stronger than yours or that my DSC is that more sensitive, but I can't go full throttle in first gear under many conditions, and I can't shift into second near redline with full throttle, without my DSC cutting in.
I think I know the answer to this one, but what tires are you running, Derek? IIRC, you're on PS or PS-II.

The reason I ask is that I noticed a profound difference in the frequency of DSC intervention when I switched from the OE Dunlap 8080E's that came with the car to the last 2(f)/3(r) sets of Pilot Sports. That, and my dual mass flywheel has sucked some of the snap out of my launches and gearshifts along the way.... The Michelins are significantly more sticky, in my experience.

Anyways, this likely doesn't apply in your case, Derek, but I was simply flabbergasted at how large the variance was in the two brands of OE rubber.

-Dave

p.s. Oh, and I have no idea what the mystery lights are. And even though I agree intellectually with everything greg wrote (I know I'm not smarter OR faster than the computer), I tend to do the two-finger start-up salute procedure.
 

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As a new M5 owner and someone who drives all of my cars during Chicago winters, I too find that I have been leaving the traction control on. It does limit the fun because it intervenes very frequently and unsmoothly (on snow tires anyway). I wish there was an intermediate mode like on my E46 330i in which you can allow some wheelspin but as soon as the car starts to get sideways it engages the appropriate brakes to rein in the fun. Admittedly the 330i doesn't have nearly the power to shred tires as the M5 but the intermediate mode is nice anyway.

I don't think that anyone's going to hack the traction control system though, what with everyone so willing to sue everyone else when something doesn't go as they planned.

Regards
 

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i was wondering the same thing - what tires are you guys running if DSC turns on to the extent it impairs traffic merging/street driving. I got the car last month and it had someone worn oem tires. i thought i was going to break DSC because it would kick in often. but then I got a set of PS2s and i've been wondering if something is wrong with my car because I don't engage DSC when I expect to. i mean, i don't dump the clutch ever, but do floor it in 2nd gear and usually does not engage DSC if i'm going straight. I do hit DSC on off-ramps trying to get good exit speeds though.
 

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Suretyagent said:
I can't believe that my (mostly stock) M5 is either that much stronger than yours or that my DSC is that more sensitive, but I can't go full throttle in first gear under many conditions, and I can't shift into second near redline with full throttle, without my DSC cutting in. If the road is wet the shift to third gets DSC, too. (I've even seen the DSC working at speeds in excess of 100mph in forth gear.) You're not saying we shouldn't be using full throttle in daily driving, are you?
No, and yes. I get into the DSC on occasion, and yes I sometimes find it frustrating. But not so often that I want to run around with it off all the time, and I try to be smooth enough not to bring it in. There's a couple local on-ramps where basically I can sneak up to WOT in second gear and 'lean' the car against the DSC.

In the wet it's kind of a game to play "Where's DSC?" - oh, there it is!

One thing the CTS-V has all over our E39s...
 

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SpiderSense said:
i was wondering the same thing - what tires are you guys running if DSC turns on to the extent it impairs traffic merging/street driving. I got the car last month and it had someone worn oem tires. i thought i was going to break DSC because it would kick in often. but then I got a set of PS2s and i've been wondering if something is wrong with my car because I don't engage DSC when I expect to. i mean, i don't dump the clutch ever, but do floor it in 2nd gear and usually does not engage DSC if i'm going straight. I do hit DSC on off-ramps trying to get good exit speeds though.
When I went from worn PS1's to brand new Goodyears, I noticed a huge reduction in DSC kick in. I have no trouble getting full throttle accel in 1st (after launch) with no DSC and on shift to 2nd I get a tiny tire chirp, and sometimes a flicker of the DSC. If both rear tires are turning at the same rate, DSC shouldn't kick in. As someone else noted, smoothness helps.
Regards,
Jerry
 

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ard said:
I can see the symbols next to the DSC indicator, but no discussion in the manual...

Almost looks like a 'following car' indicator on the left, and a 'something ahead' on the right...

A
E39 and E38 have the same instrument cluster (even the M5 cluster should work in E38), the computer just disables certain lights and functions depending on which model it's been installed.

The one on the left is used by Active Cruise Control on E38 as an alert that there is a slower car in front of you and the system is matching speed to keep predefined distance.

Dont' know what the one on the left is, but I think that it has something to do with the self-level suspension (failure warning??). I have self-level suspension, but I've never seen this one lit.
 
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