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Discussion Starter #1

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Id take this over any new german sedan. Never driven an F10 or F30 but based on what I have read, GM is now making what would be great BMWs (ATS and CTS) and BMW is making compromised BMWs... Although the M3/4 is very sweet if you don't mind the turbo.

Ill keep my E39 though for now. Would rather shift my own and enjoy the dynamics and subtleness of the body. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
doesn't compete with our M5's, since those are 10+ years old with much lower cost of entry
Correct, hence the title NEW M5......

If it doesn't come with a manual transmission, I don't want it.
Agreed. Only the Corvette gets the 7 speed. Yet, a pretty strong entry. Looks like Corvette drivetrain in a 4 door saloon. And since our beloved M5 (F10 variety) also does not have a 3 pedal manual option, no advantage BMW on that score.

Maybe Raza is working on the new ESIG option (engine swap in garage). Suggested RPO: FF (flip flops).

Time will tell.

Regards,
Jerry
 

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Correct, hence the title NEW M5......



Agreed. Only the Corvette gets the 7 speed. Yet, a pretty strong entry. Looks like Corvette drivetrain in a 4 door saloon. And since our beloved M5 (F10 variety) also does not have a 3 pedal manual option, no advantage BMW on that score.

Maybe Raza is working on the new ESIG option (engine swap in garage). Suggested RPO: FF (flip flops).

Time will tell.

Regards,
Jerry
oh - I read that this is a NEW competitor, not a competitor to the new M5. But - ya - as stated, I would not want a new M5 or this new CTSV, and I owned the original CTSV btw. That ATS-V looks promising, but I really prefer a NA V8 to just about any other powerplant in a heavy car like this, and manual trans is a must for me as well.
 

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Correct, hence the title NEW M5......



Agreed. Only the Corvette gets the 7 speed. Yet, a pretty strong entry. Looks like Corvette drivetrain in a 4 door saloon. And since our beloved M5 (F10 variety) also does not have a 3 pedal manual option, no advantage BMW on that score.

Maybe Raza is working on the new ESIG option (engine swap in garage). Suggested RPO: FF (flip flops).

Time will tell.

Regards,
Jerry
F10 has a no cost manual option
 

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Discussion Starter #9
F10 has a no cost manual option
You guys are correct, 3 pedal 6 speed. Momentary brain fade over my excitement of Raza being at GM!!:2:

Regards,
Jerry
 

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No manual, no care.

I think Chevy will cave like they did for the SS.
Speaking of the SS, saw one for the first time today. I was a few cars behind it at a metering light and from the rear quarter view, it looked good. Not sure if this car's fenders were modified but the flares stood out. The car was also lowered with some aggressive multi-spoke concaved wheels so it looked pretty aggressive.
 

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:kaffe: Looks nice.














j/k! Looks like one hell of a vehicle! :M5rev:
 

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From a power standpoint, it now looks like the CTS-V is winning the race, even over the special edition F10 M5. I will definitely be checking out the CTS-V at the Detroit Auto Show come January. I would agree though, that without the 3rd pedal, I loose most of my interest in it.

I rented an ATS a few months ago. The engine was the bottom of the line rental car special 2.5L normally aspirated 4 cylinder so it was a dog, however the chassis on that car is brilliant. Even in the bottom of the line model it handled extremely well, I can see why the reviewers last year all thought it drove better then the current run of the mill 3 series.
 

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From a power standpoint, it now looks like the CTS-V is winning the race, even over the special edition F10 M5. I will definitely be checking out the CTS-V at the Detroit Auto Show come January. I would agree though, that without the 3rd pedal, I loose most of my interest in it.

I rented an ATS a few months ago. The engine was the bottom of the line rental car special 2.5L normally aspirated 4 cylinder so it was a dog, however the chassis on that car is brilliant. Even in the bottom of the line model it handled extremely well, I can see why the reviewers last year all thought it drove better then the current run of the mill 3 series.
That 2.5 is probably the lightest engine, giving the car the best weight distribution and lightest weight. I bet it was brilliant (except the power train...)

They lost me without a V8+3 pedal combo. ATS-V needs a V8 or the CTS-V needs a 3rd pedal.
 

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they are marketing this car to pussies and girls. its not even a dual clutch auto. their reasoning behind no auto "the ATS-V has a manual option" lol silly GM when will the learn.
 

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I think the jig is up on manuals from here on out. I'd bet that even BMW is going to ditch availability of them for most of their basic (i.e. non-M) lines in the near future with the M-cars following close behind. The uptake rate is falling and falling with time, and "at some point" the business-case-financialization-"wizards" will win the battle. With the vast majority of drivers incapable of even driving a manual transmission, and the younger generations especially deficit in that regard, the writing is all over the wall...sadly.
 

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I think the jig is up on manuals from here on out. I'd bet that even BMW is going to ditch availability of them for most of their basic (i.e. non-M) lines in the near future with the M-cars following close behind. The uptake rate is falling and falling with time, and "at some point" the business-case-financialization-"wizards" will win the battle. With the vast majority of drivers incapable of even driving a manual transmission, and the younger generations especially deficit in that regard, the writing is all over the wall...sadly.
I bet insurance rates will be lower moving forward in manual transmission cars because it's the best theft deterrent! There are several videos out there on the internet where would be car thiefs can't steal the car because they can't drive stick. You feel kind of embarassed for them.
 

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Getting 2013 CTS-v crossed mind so many times I lost count. The new V will without a doubt be something that raises the bar and I would love to own one!

I really like the power plant of the current CTS-v but they loose me when I see the rear and interior, otherwise I would have one by now. The ease of mods 550 whp with basics is so so so tempting, plus the MR shocks! The new V might offer 7 speed, time will tell, but the 2016 M5 I'm sure will pack AWD and over 600hp.


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Discussion Starter #19
I think the jig is up on manuals from here on out. I'd bet that even BMW is going to ditch availability of them for most of their basic (i.e. non-M) lines in the near future with the M-cars following close behind. The uptake rate is falling and falling with time, and "at some point" the business-case-financialization-"wizards" will win the battle. With the vast majority of drivers incapable of even driving a manual transmission, and the younger generations especially deficit in that regard, the writing is all over the wall...sadly.
I think you are right. But then after some time, there will be a resurgence to set apart those "halo" cars from the ordinary cars. It would be easy to simply tune the engine for more power if a 3 pedal for the "halo" aspect (acknowledging hackers will up the ante on non 3 pedal cars).

GM can easily put the 7 speed in the CTS-V, but it will wait a couple of years if they do so they have something to announce as "new" (and get feedback from its time in the Corvette).

Like the "death" of the convertible, which resurfaced and then flourished, 3 pedal manuals will make a bit of a comeback. And on small cars with small motors, 3 pedal is still a better current option for power management to help get the car moving without sucking up too many ponies if an autobox.

Plus, I think the hp wars will peak and shift to weight management/reduction (BMW is getting there with M3/4) as well as hybrid start/stop technology and manual defeat ( or perhaps as simple as pulling a fuse!) to bump the CAFE numbers (0 mpg when not moving if gas driven). Like old GM 1-4 skip tranny technology for CAFE numbers, easily defeatable.

The future is interesting to say the least!

Regards,
Jerry
 

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they are marketing this car to pussies and girls. its not even a dual clutch auto. their reasoning behind no auto "the ATS-V has a manual option" lol silly GM when will the learn.
I resent that. I would never dirty myself with that. :blink:

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