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Discussion Starter #1
Pics of the new Mini-Beast in action.. M1..

Lots of rumoured engines from a high revving 2.0 lite straight six making 220 kW to the 3.0 twin-turbo litre straight six (some say making 250 kW and others 280 kW) Time will tell though.. with the E90's M3/M4 rumoured to make as much as 330 kW @9000 RPM the 250 kW and 280 kW wont be a bad option..

My BMW M driving course friend (was just over seas at BMW M) said BMW M were already looking to SMG 4 for all future M cars which will have this amazing sort of dual capability.. they want a dual-clutch system for the drive modes and manual modes 1-5 (for super smooth ****hs) then for S6 the clutch will be totally disenaged "ala Formula 1 gearboxes"..

So when you press S6.. and gas it hard and change up the computer will synchronise everything in miliseconds and drop the revs just quick enough for the gearbox to slot into the next gear.. So its going to be brutally fast shifting.. just like the F1 cars who only use their clutch to pull off.. no clutch for shifting..

They already have the designs and are progressing towards a protoype..


 

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Yes, ther have been a couple pic of it on the net

Its just a M sport kit like the 5 Series has, ad the 3 Series get s in september.
look it only has 2 exhaust pipes









 

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The new gearbox is called the BMW ZSG gearbox

It is a dual clutch system like the Audi DSG

It is to be launched mid to late next year with the turbo 335i
 

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Yes, ZSG stands for Zentral-Syncron-Getriebe and it will also feature in the forthcoming mini-MPV from BMW (designated RFK 1 or 2 - I can't remember which right now).
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well whatever the gearbox will be called its going to shift like lightning..

And with 250kW or 280kW in that light 1 series shell.. its going to fly!!

What about a 3 litre V10..??

Possible??
 

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i hope its not an M1 because M1 shouldnt be based on the chubby 1-series.

IMO, the next M1 should be a supercar, based completely from scratch, with hints of the legendary M1.
 

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solard said:
i hope its not an M1 because M1 shouldnt be based on the chubby 1-series.

IMO, the next M1 should be a supercar, based completely from scratch, with hints of the legendary M1.

The M version of the 1 Series is supposed to be called the M2, sothat it doesnt take away the legendary M1 name
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I dont really care.. the 1 series should be called the M1 and the 2 series the M2..

The M1 of old is history and so now they can name the 1 series the M1.. The BMW supercar will be called the Z10 with a 6.0 litre V10 or a twin-turbocharged 5.0 litre V10..

Hope they dont badge it 135 is...


solard said:
i hope its not an M1 because M1 shouldnt be based on the chubby 1-series.

IMO, the next M1 should be a supercar, based completely from scratch, with hints of the legendary M1.
 

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This was an interesting post. However, there are still some questions:
the ZSG is a dual clutch system or is the one Greggb (first post) described - the one that does not use clutch when changing gears? or is it both:confused:
and is it possible to rev-match when downshifting without using the clutch? i guess it´s not, so this crazy thing does only work with upshifts, right?
 

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michal12 said:
This was an interesting post. However, there are still some questions:
the ZSG is a dual clutch system or is the one Greggb (first post) described - the one that does not use clutch when changing gears? or is it both:confused:
and is it possible to rev-match when downshifting without using the clutch? i guess it´s not, so this crazy thing does only work with upshifts, right?
The ZSG like SMG only has pedals on the steering wheels to shift gears.
Inside it has 2 clutches, the one is engaged and the other preselects the next probable gear, so shifting is instant. The ECU rev matches the engine on downshift


Have a look at Audi or VW for their DSG system
 

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Discussion Starter #12
See what I'm saying is that this SMG 4 has a dual clutch system like VW and AUDI for D 1-5 and S 1-5 shift programs.. so its jus like a more advanced SMGIII with faster shifting and super smooth shifts..

BUT when you press S6.. with DSC off and all that goes with it something BRAND NEW is going to happen for a road car.. the clutches will be disengaged all together just like an F1 car and the changes will happen more quickly than any SMG or DSG.. when you pull the change up lever the ECU will cut the revs just enough in an instant and slot in the next ratio in a wildly fast time and in brutal fashion..

This will be the fastest shifting system around.. but only in S6.. S1-5 and D1-5 will use the dual clutch system..

Its how formula 1 do it.. they only use a clutch to pull off.. the computer does the rest..


michal12 said:
This was an interesting post. However, there are still some questions:
the ZSG is a dual clutch system or is the one Greggb (first post) described - the one that does not use clutch when changing gears? or is it both:confused:
and is it possible to rev-match when downshifting without using the clutch? i guess it´s not, so this crazy thing does only work with upshifts, right?
 

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greggb said:
Well whatever the gearbox will be called its going to shift like lightning..

And with 250kW or 280kW in that light 1 series shell.. its going to fly!!

What about a 3 litre V10..??

Possible??
Not much but who cares. Better think about M5/M6 engine in E87...:hihi:
 

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greggb said:
See what I'm saying is that this SMG 4 has a dual clutch system like VW and AUDI for D 1-5 and S 1-5 shift programs.. so its jus like a more advanced SMGIII with faster shifting and super smooth shifts..

BUT when you press S6.. with DSC off and all that goes with it something BRAND NEW is going to happen for a road car.. the clutches will be disengaged all together just like an F1 car and the changes will happen more quickly than any SMG or DSG.. when you pull the change up lever the ECU will cut the revs just enough in an instant and slot in the next ratio in a wildly fast time and in brutal fashion..

This will be the fastest shifting system around.. but only in S6.. S1-5 and D1-5 will use the dual clutch system..

Its how formula 1 do it.. they only use a clutch to pull off.. the computer does the rest..

The ZSG is virtually instant.

It will replace the SMG system totally next year

This is probably what they have heard about
 

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SuperBMW said:
The ZSG is virtually instant.

It will replace the SMG system totally next year

This is probably what they have heard about
...i had heard about this sometime ago, but didnt think it would come out so soon?...this totally scr*ews up my plans as Im ordering an SMG car when the '06 specs hit the dealers

.....so what does this mean to current/upcoming owners who get the M5/M6 prior to this replacement system? will this be incorporated into all cars?

if so this would be concerning i think for many owners who have taken delivery before this happens, and would represent in my mind a poor judgement be BMW M...if they are going to add a new tranny in a year, then either delay the M5/M6 to match the release or they should have done better planning to come up with this new equiptment prior to the spring release...

anyone else concerned?
 

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m630 said:
...i had heard about this sometime ago, but didnt think it would come out so soon?...this totally scr*ews up my plans as Im ordering an SMG car when the '06 specs hit the dealers

.....so what does this mean to current/upcoming owners who get the M5/M6 prior to this replacement system? will this be incorporated into all cars?

if so this would be concerning i think for many owners who have taken delivery before this happens, and would represent in my mind a poor judgement be BMW M...if they are going to add a new tranny in a year, then either delay the M5/M6 to match the release or they should have done better planning to come up with this new equiptment prior to the spring release...

anyone else concerned?
That is why they should have introduced a 6-speed manual for us and then come with with SMG, DSG, ZMB, ABC, etc.... Who cares....:haha:
 

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m630 said:
...i had heard about this sometime ago, but didnt think it would come out so soon?...this totally scr*ews up my plans as Im ordering an SMG car when the '06 specs hit the dealers

.....so what does this mean to current/upcoming owners who get the M5/M6 prior to this replacement system? will this be incorporated into all cars?

if so this would be concerning i think for many owners who have taken delivery before this happens, and would represent in my mind a poor judgement be BMW M...if they are going to add a new tranny in a year, then either delay the M5/M6 to match the release or they should have done better planning to come up with this new equiptment prior to the spring release...

anyone else concerned?
The new gearbox has only been mentioned for the new 335i mid to late next year

A interesting note is BMW NA has confirmed it wont be offering the SMG gearbox in the new 3 Series ( see 3 series forums for the official BMW letter ), and wont be offering it on the last E46 coupe/cabrios either. So the question is will they keep offering it on other models ?


Nothing has been said if the new type of box will be used in M cars
 

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there is no such thing as 'i dont care, as long as they name 1 series M1".

M1 name will always be the name of their supercar, and im sure they wont embarassed their legendary name based on a practical hatchback car.

most probably they are making M-tech bodykits for the 1-series. Most probably. I am just assuming.

Im sure they wont be an M-version of the 1-series, just like the 7-series.

But we'll just wait and see.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I'm sure the M5/M6 SMG III will never be replaced in those cars..

This gearbox will be for forthcoming M cars.. like the M3/M4 and most likely Z4 M.. Im sure even the M6 CSL will just get an uprated SMG III gearbox..

Its just an evolution of gearboxes like the M5 got SMG III and the E46 M3 had SMG II..

The new M3/M4 will have SMG IV.. thats all.. its just going to be the next generation that will be super fast and super smooth.. and downright brutal in S6..

And it will definatley NOT debut in 335i.. its an M development.. strictly for M cars..
 

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greggb said:
See what I'm saying is that this SMG 4 has a dual clutch system like VW and AUDI for D 1-5 and S 1-5 shift programs.. so its jus like a more advanced SMGIII with faster shifting and super smooth shifts..

BUT when you press S6.. with DSC off and all that goes with it something BRAND NEW is going to happen for a road car.. the clutches will be disengaged all together just like an F1 car and the changes will happen more quickly than any SMG or DSG.. when you pull the change up lever the ECU will cut the revs just enough in an instant and slot in the next ratio in a wildly fast time and in brutal fashion..

This will be the fastest shifting system around.. but only in S6.. S1-5 and D1-5 will use the dual clutch system..

Its how formula 1 do it.. they only use a clutch to pull off.. the computer does the rest..
Thanx, this clarifies matters a lot. I agree that this SMG IV with F1 style shifting may be available in M cars only. However, I can think of a dual clutch system (without S6 mode) which might be introduced in 335i.
Otherwise, what I have heard, even Merc is considering switching from auto boxes with torque converters to DSG-style boxes because a torque converter limits the engine revs.. (can't go over 6600 rpm or so..) Hence thats why they have supercharged V8s. I am curious what Audi is going to do with its new S8. I reckon it will get the DSG.
 
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