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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Well, time has past, 2 years I think, and the new 7 looks as bad to me as when it was released. Sales look disappointing, and still a ton of them sitting at the local dealer. Some are the same ones from 6 months ago. The 7 looks outright ugly, and I have actually seen old 7s that look better on the road.

The E60 looks OK at the very best. What a weak follow-up to the E39. The measure of the lack of interest in the new M5 may be evidenced right here at this board. At any given time, there are roughly double the members viewing the E39 forum as the E60. Maybe this is because the E60 M5 is not owned by anyone yet. It also looks like I was wrong about the performance relative to the SL55. Apparently the SL55 is a tick faster and that is immensely disappointing.

I'm just not as excited. My favorites are the new 430 Ferrari, Murcielago, upcoming wider and longer 997 911 Turbo, and the classic McLaren F1 LM.
 

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HBRAMSTEDT said:
The E60 looks OK at the very best. What a weak follow-up to the E39. The measure of the lack of interest in the new M5 may be evidenced right here at this board. At any given time, there are roughly double the members viewing the E39 forum as the E60. Maybe this is because the E60 M5 is not owned by anyone yet. It also looks like I was wrong about the performance relative to the SL55. Apparently the SL55 is a tick faster and that is immensely disappointing.

I'm just not as excited. My favorites are the new 430 Ferrari, Murcielago, upcoming wider and longer 997 911 Turbo, and the classic McLaren F1 LM.
Hey Hbramstedt,

I hear you loud and clear. Seeing a few E60's on the road, and they are disappointing. I'm not excited about the New M5, I am also greatly disappointed.

The 430 is just plain sick. Now thats what a car should look like. :thumbsup:

But the two I am eagerly awaiting the arrival of is The New 997 TT & The New M4.

Finally a V-8 in an M3.....ummm....even if they call it an M4, it will be sweet.

Theres already talk of a 450 HP CSL version. mmmmm

The 4/3 series is a nice progression and hasn't been bungalized. The early Pic of the New M4 Looks Sweet.

Instant like. I like the 997 S to, so the TT should be Killer.

:cheers:

Then after looking and studying these, you go back to the E60 Beast, and I think, OLD guys car. It may be different once I drive one, but it still is JUST O.K. I wanted it to be The bomb.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I couldn't agree more. I too wanted the new M5 to be "the bomb." What a perfect analogy. It just isn't. Maybe next time.

I had exactly the same thoughts on the M4 and the 3 series progression. That does sound attractive.
 
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Don't lose faith in the 5-series. BMW is one of the most successful car manufacturers to have ever existed. Everyone makes mistakes, and we can see a progressive improvement moving from the new 7-series to the new 5-series to the new 3-series. Clearly BMW is moving things back on track.

I can't wait for the new post-e60 5-series, as I would not doubt that it will be THE car we have all been waiting for. Remember, it is much easier to redraw the exterior than it is to redesign the mechanicals that do the work behind the scenes. Just wait a few years, and you will probably see the best 5-series ever.

Cheers, Daniel.
 

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If you look at the new 3 series, you can see how they are going to soften the Bangle lines (inside & out). If we assume the next gen 5 series will follow on from this then I think it will look stunning!



 
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Asterix said:
If you look at the new 3 series, you can see how they are going to soften the Bangle lines (inside & out). If we assume the next gen 5 series will follow on from this then I think it will look stunning!
Exactly! The new e90 3-series looks great.

Cheers, Daniel.
 

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BMW has got to change to protect their bottom line.

In the UK, five years ago, the 7 series was the bestselling luxury saloon car moving 325 No units in Oct. The new 7 series sold 45No units in Oct 04. This has got to hurt.
 

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The E60 and E65 are not bad basic shapes, nor are they bad basic mechanical platforms. It's just all the silly details that completely craps things up.

If I recall BMW's planning a 'refresh' of the E65 that gets rid of some of the silliness from the nose, at least. In fact, the end result in the spy pix looks a whole lot like an E39. Haven't really fixed the rear, though. And we'll have to wait another couple years for them to get rid of crap like all the various little useless projections on the E60.

My biggest dislike in the recent Bimmers has been the interior; that big horizontal-slab dashboard just doesn't cut it. I can appreciate BMW trying to get the on-board screen up to driver's eye-level, but the aesthetics of what they've done is not appealing.
 

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JEM said:
My biggest dislike in the recent Bimmers has been the interior; that big horizontal-slab dashboard just doesn't cut it.
I agree. I think what made BMW popular, sporty and different from anyone else was the angled center dash. It made the driver feel like it was their own. That long tradition went away. The dash now has a flat unsporty appearance. Then there's the unfunctional door handle in the E60. The handle's 45 degree angle and it's placement is too far forward and the doesn't allow for proper leverage to open the door. Did you guys notice that you have to open the door by pushing out from the center-top portion of the door instead of using the handles? Then the kidney grill is different on across all models. Some have a huge ugly flab of chrome across the top like the new 3 series. Some are hidden within the bumper and don't have the chrome flab across the top. The E39 and E46 had the chrome wrap around the bumper. Those of you who had the older E39 grill and upgraded to the M5 kidney grill know what I'm talking about. The new E60 grill is a remake of the older E39 design that everyone hated. ...And then there's the trunk. It's different across all models. The 6 and 7 both have that dorky design. On a brighter note, the 1 series looks really nice.
 

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JEM said:
My biggest dislike in the recent Bimmers has been the interior; that big horizontal-slab dashboard just doesn't cut it. I can appreciate BMW trying to get the on-board screen up to driver's eye-level, but the aesthetics of what they've done is not appealing.
Hear, hear!!! There's got to be a better way to fill the space in between the nav system and the shifter. The horizontal "slab" imo takes what used to be a very driver-centric cabin, and turned it into a rather bland interior that I feel is sub par to what Audi/MB have.


As a side note, (I know we're talking about aesthetics, but semi-related...)I have a friend who's bought an E60. After spending probably an hour or more fiddling with iDrive to have it just right, he took it in for service, and everything was wiped out, even the radio stations! Probably old news, but maybe they need a compact flash reader on the dash to store all your preferences. :)

Cheers,
-Darryl
 

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a_ok2me said:
Those of you who had the older E39 grill and upgraded to the M5 kidney grill know what I'm talking about. The new E60 grill is a remake of the older E39 design that everyone hated.
Hey, I've always thought the inset base-E39 grille (as on my wife's '98 540i) looks a lot better than the M5 style, I've occasionally thought about pulling mine off to see if the paint underneath was good enough to 'backfit' the simpler chromeless version but have never gotten around to it.
 

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I agree with some posters above that BMW have really weird interiour nowdays. Please be inspired more from E34 and E39 5 series please.

Exteriourly, I have never liked the 7, and I think it is evident that it is not doing well in USA and Europe, but betetr in emerging markets like China.

Luckily I like the 5 most of all the Bangle cars exteriour wise, but still it looks quite weird on soem occasions. I saw today a 5-series E60 Tourign with Sport package and from the rear it really looked weird. Maybe anotherr set of wheels could have mande the overall impression better, afterall it should almost look like an M5 E60 Touring.

But as a hint for everybody who havent seen the new M5 in real life: when you get in, sit down close the door and grip the steering wheel and take a deep breath ;) you will love the new M5. And that is with the engine OFF! It wil leb a remarkable auomobile, with the programmable M Mode button etc...
 

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Gustav said:
But as a hint for everybody who havent seen the new M5 in real life: when you get in, sit down close the door and grip the steering wheel and take a deep breath ;) you will love the new M5.
I actually do like the new M5 more than the E39, except the flat dash.
 

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JEM said:
The E60 and E65 are not bad basic shapes, nor are they bad basic mechanical platforms. It's just all the silly details that completely craps things up.



My biggest dislike in the recent Bimmers has been the interior; that big horizontal-slab dashboard just doesn't cut it. I can appreciate BMW trying to get the on-board screen up to driver's eye-level, but the aesthetics of what they've done is not appealing.
I have to agree on both counts. Basic exterior shape is OK, it is the execution. All the cut lines make it look disjointed. But it is the interior that is just a flat out miss. A 98 Buick Park Avenue has a better layout IMHO!! :hihi: The E34 was different than the E39, but very driver friendly. E39 is also very good. Looks like the E90 is at least headed back in the right direction.
Regards,
Jerry
 

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BeastPower said:
Don't lose faith in the 5-series. BMW is one of the most successful car manufacturers to have ever existed. Everyone makes mistakes, and we can see a progressive improvement moving from the new 7-series to the new 5-series to the new 3-series. Clearly BMW is moving things back on track.
But then two steps back with the M6 trunk. There's just no consistency in their styling. I'd have to belive it's an obvious sign of confusion within the company.
 

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Gustav said:
At least we cant say we idnt complain or had warmings:

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?goto=lastpost&t=7847

The Stop Chris Bangle petition was started on m5board.com and has noe reached worlwide fame, nytimes.com, spiegel.de etc. And the most important: to the BMW top.
I'd have to admit, according to one of those previous threads, it seems like new BMW buyers don't understand what we're talking about. But, it would be dumb for BMW to ignore their base market. I believe that's why they didn't make the new 3 and 5 look like the 6 and 7. Historical sales, I'm sure, are highest in the 3 and 5. So, they took the design risk on the 6 and 7. Historical sales on the 7 wasn't as high as the 3 and 5, so they could afford to take the risk on changing the design dramatically without losing much if it failed. Same for the 6, since the 6 was never really sold in recent years anyways. Just a perspective from someone in the finance field. If you're going to take a huge risk and believe the possiblilty that projections won't blow away prior year actuals, you might as well do it on something that never had a prior year actuals like the 6...and you can't do much worse on the 7 either. Investors will be OK with it. I'd have to respect BMW for at least taking a risk - just as long as they change back or meet in the middle.
 

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but maybe they need a compact flash reader on the dash to store all your preferences
EXACTLY! Better yet, if they could do that based on an accepted standard, like an IEEE standard, then you could take those preferences with you to any car you're in. The down side to any device that allows you to personalize your settings is that if someone changes them, it can take a long time to get them back to the way you want them, and the amount of time is proportional to the number of settings among which to choose. Before they had memory switches for seats, it used to drive me crazy when I took my car in for service, as they would always change them to move the car around and it'd take me way too much time to get them "right" again.

Anyway, I agree with many of the others here. I don't like the exterior of the new cars much, but like the dash designs even less. They remind me of the Buick and Oldsmobile dashes of the 60s and 70s. Not configured to cater to the driver at all.
 
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