[mchin]

I am seriously considering this vehicle but I am concerned with the history provided by carfax. Carfax states that there are at least two owners and there is a gap between the time the car is imported and the time it is sold. I do not know how to interpret this information and would like to know if any of you can explain the time frames. here is the carfax:

05/07/2003 US Customs Vehicle exported from
Germany and imported to
Charleston, SC

10/17/200354miles Dealer INventory Vehicle offered for sale

12/31/2003North Carolina Motor Vehicle Dept.
Greensboro, NC
Registered as personal vehcile

02/10/2004Dealer Inventory, Vehicle sold

09/13/200412,003 miles North Carolina Inspection Station
Greesnboro NC, Passed emissions

02/25/2005Dealer Inventory Doylestown PA
Vehicle offered for sale

02/25/2005Dealer Inventory Delaware Veh. sold

03/02/200516,827milesPennsylvania Motor Veh.Dept.
Manheim, PA
Title issued or updated
New owner reported
Any thoughts on what, if anything, this history indicates in terms of negatives is greatly appreciated.

Michael.

 

[jlindy]

It seems like it was turned over a lot for such a short period of time. That may be nothing, but it does raise a red flag. I would use Carfax as a guide, but I woiuld really rely upon the BMW service history.

 

[MEnthusiast]

Also consider that this is a grey market car, it will have the worldwide 2 year manufacturer warranty, but it will not have the 4/50000 BMW NA warranty. Unless price is the major factor, I would try to find a CPO car with a warranty. Consider that parts for the car can be very expensive.

 

[jordantii]

Also consider that this is a grey market car, it will have the worldwide 2 year manufacturer warranty, but it will not have the 4/50000 BMW NA warranty. Unless price is the major factor, I would try to find a CPO car with a warranty. Consider that parts for the car can be very expensive.

It's not a grey market car. What makes you think that?????? Because it came through customs??

Jordan

 

[mchin]

Thank you for the comments thus far.

MEnthusiast, I am not sure what you mean by grey market. My understanding is that this would be referring to a car that was imported into the US after being sold at a dealership outside the US.

This car is being sold through a BMW dealer and is "supposedly" CPO. In fact, the dealer is telling me that the in service date is 12/03 which simply does not jive with what carfax is saying in the report. the sales rep. stated that the five month period of time between the import to US and the introduction to the dealer inventory is due to the car sitting at the port and waiting to be used by a dealer. I understood this to mean that the car was not specifically ordered but was simply prepared and shipped. I know this is possible but I did not think that this was the case with the M5. I thought all production was specifically ordered. In addition, I thought that if the manufacturer was simply going to prepare a car and wait for the sale the color combination would have been more mainstream, ie - silver, black, white, etc. Red, while not as unusual as say pheonix yellow, is also not something that someone that everyone wants.

any other comments or insights would be greatly appreciated as the dealer is asking over 60K and my impression is that they will not go below 60. I was going to try to negotiate again but in view of the history I do not know if it is worth the risk even with a 5 year warranty.

 

[ray540inyc]

i would check the service history and run the vin with your insurance company to see if there are any "paid outs" on the car, meaning any minor accident or damage done otherwise. this will not show on a car fax.
i would definately use it as a bargaining tool to get another 2k off the price.

 

[CSBM5]

any other comments or insights would be greatly appreciated as the dealer is asking over 60K and my impression is that they will not go below 60. I was going to try to negotiate again but in view of the history I do not know if it is worth the risk even with a 5 year warranty.

I think that price is way too high for an 03 with multiple owner background especially. The market is in the mid-high 50's on nice 03's I believe.

With regard to that initial gap, my gut feel is that it is highly likely the car was a Performance Center car (i.e. used at the PC for schools). These cars are usually offered in some sort of BMW auction to BMW dealers (or so I was told). They usually have around 5k miles I think when the PC gets rid of them (not sure, but they don't keep them long). They go through them completely and replace lots of stuff, but their engines have had a hard life from day one.

My understanding was that there is some sort of information that is supposed to follow the vehicle related to its history, but I think it is a bit obtuse in that is says something to the effect of a "BMW fleet vehicle".

Get the official BMWNA Vehicle History Report from the dealer (or another dealer), and check it out. In any event, the price is too high.

Chuck

 

[mchin]

ray540inyc- thanks for the suggestion. I had not thought of that and I was going to call my agent with the vin to check on the insurance "boost" with the new car. BTW how goes your search for the ultimate "maintance" machine?


CSBM5 - my gut tells me the same thing especially since it appears that the car was imported to SC where I thought the performance center was located. the high 50's is what I intended on offering and the sales rep assured me that it would sell at or above 60. the more I think about the car and the more I consider the options the more I think I might just walk away.

thanks again to all who have provided their insights.

 

[jlindy]

Run it through a diagnostic to see if there are any over rev codes, but I guess those can be erased if you want to hide it. hmmm Go with your gut because it is usually right. Keep looking.

 

[Beamer_usa]

I think that price is way too high for an 03 with multiple owner background especially. The market is in the mid-high 50's on nice 03's I believe.

With regard to that initial gap, my gut feel is that it is highly likely the car was a Performance Center car (i.e. used at the PC for schools). These cars are usually offered in some sort of BMW auction to BMW dealers (or so I was told). They usually have around 5k miles I think when the PC gets rid of them (not sure, but they don't keep them long). They go through them completely and replace lots of stuff, but their engines have had a hard life from day one.

My understanding was that there is some sort of information that is supposed to follow the vehicle related to its history, but I think it is a bit obtuse in that is says something to the effect of a "BMW fleet vehicle".

Get the official BMWNA Vehicle History Report from the dealer (or another dealer), and check it out. In any event, the price is too high.

Chuck

I agree with CSBM5, before I bought my m5, I looked at about a dozen different cars and all of those carfaxes can back as the cars being exported from Germany and imported into New Jersey. The fact that it was imported into South Carolina along with the 5 month gap, I believe also suggests the car being used for the schools. Be careful and good luck on your search

 

[MEnthusiast]

My mistake- I saw SC and thought it must be grey market. I am not so sure if it could have been used for the schools though. In the case of the Z8s used for the schools, as I understand it, when the school is over, the Z8s will meet with a very unglamourous fate! :crying:

All that said, I believe in listening to the little voice inside your head. In your spot, besides for being wrong about grey market status, Id still likely skip this car due to the gap in time and muliple owners in a relatively short period of time. My mind asks "whats the catch"? Which is why I rushed to say: ah, ha! Its grey market.

 

[kwalls]

While I can't account for the time gaps and multiple owner questions, I will say there is another explanation for M5 cars being imported from Germany into the US.
Most European car companies that sell cars in the US (BMW included) allow diplomat/military sales to qualifying US citizens outside of the US. All of these are US spec vehicles. Most of these vehicles are purchased for personal use and are imported only after the owner returns to the US. Sometimes, individuals who qualify for this program purchase vehicles (high value / high demand) with no intention of ownership beyond the legal limits required to satisfy rules applied for ‘personal use’ .

In some cases, individuals arrange visits to Europe long enough to qualify for diplomat/military sales with plans to purchase and import these vehicle to a third party for profit.
Vehicles that remain and are operated in Europe have warranties iaw European laws and most are allowed to revert to American warranties once imported.
I do know of the dozen or so M5 cars sold in German in 2003, mine is the only one still here. Most left within the time limits of their export tags expiration date.


Ken